Question for US pilots
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Question for US pilots
I have a question for the American pilots flying in the US. Recently, I went on holiday to the US and started out with a few days in New York. Getting to New York was no problem on BA as they fly direct. My ultimate destination was Hawaii. The best route I could get to Honolulu from New York was the following:
New York to Pittsburgh...Pittsburg to Atlanta...Atlanta to Dallas...Dallas to Los Angeles and then FINALLY to Honolulu. My question is this: Why don't the US carriers fly direct? This made no sense to me as I do believe I have flown from London to Hong Kong in less time than it took to go from NY to Hawaii!
Some American friends told me about the "hubs" in America which means a trip from point A to point B involves one or more points in between. It was quite maddening and makes no sense to me. I would be very interested in knowing more about these hubs and why I was given the grand tour of America.
One other thought...isn't this a bit of a waste of precious jet fuel?
Thanks in advance for your replies.
Cheers!
New York to Pittsburgh...Pittsburg to Atlanta...Atlanta to Dallas...Dallas to Los Angeles and then FINALLY to Honolulu. My question is this: Why don't the US carriers fly direct? This made no sense to me as I do believe I have flown from London to Hong Kong in less time than it took to go from NY to Hawaii!
Some American friends told me about the "hubs" in America which means a trip from point A to point B involves one or more points in between. It was quite maddening and makes no sense to me. I would be very interested in knowing more about these hubs and why I was given the grand tour of America.
One other thought...isn't this a bit of a waste of precious jet fuel?
Thanks in advance for your replies.
Cheers!
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Where did you look to find those flights? On AA you can go JFK-LAX-HNL or JFK-DFW-HNL. UA goes JFK-SFO-HNL. CO goes LGA-IAH-HNL. There are many other examples of 1-stop service on Expedia...
Continental US - HNL is the longest ETOPS leg I know of in the world. That is likely why there are no direct NYC-HNL flights.
Continental US - HNL is the longest ETOPS leg I know of in the world. That is likely why there are no direct NYC-HNL flights.
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Firstly, Why didnt you fly to LAX, DFW or ATL direct from NYC??? There are a million and one flights to each of these places from NYC. Me thinks you were looking for super cheap discount fares on the internet without actually thinking what you were doing, you must not be much of an experienced traveller!!! Your question has as much use as someone asking why they cant fly direct from Benbecula to Sydney with British Airways!!!!!
Secondly, Why are you asking pilots to answer your question? They dont know anything about reservations or indeed the final destinations of any of their passengers. They are there to fly the plane!!!!
I think you were swindled on this occcasion!!!!
Secondly, Why are you asking pilots to answer your question? They dont know anything about reservations or indeed the final destinations of any of their passengers. They are there to fly the plane!!!!
I think you were swindled on this occcasion!!!!
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Beware the UA one-stop via SFO; took that for a family holiday a year or so ago. Coming back they dump you, shagged, in a freezing cold all-facilities-closed terminal in SFO at oh-dark-thirty and leave you there cooling your heels, literally and figuratively, for four hours waiting for onward connection to New York
CO EWR-HNL nonstop is the way to go - worth it!
R1
CO EWR-HNL nonstop is the way to go - worth it!
R1
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Thanks to everyone for your responses. First, to the moderators: I'm sorry I was in the wrong forum. I was hoping for some enlightenment from US pilots on the whole "hub" system.
To Apaddyinuk,
I actually had my seat confirmed on the US airline (I don't want to mention names to be seen as backlashing them) two weeks before my flight out of Heathrow. That flight was supposed to be direct from New York to Los Angeles, or so I was told. When I arrived at the airport to leave for Hawaii I found out that the airline had over-booked and I was on stand-by. They had given my seat away DISPITE the fact I called to confirm the reservation.
I was not trying to find cheap seats, nor did I do this over the internet. The tickets were provided through a travel agency. The reason I asked US pilots was because I was hoping for a logical explanation to the "hub" system I was constantly told about by the Americans. I do, indeed, know that the pilots fly the plane! However, wouldn't they know why we were flying to Atlanta when everyone aboard this partitcular flight (except me and a few other people) were wanting to go to Dallas? No one on the plane from Pittsburgh got off in Atlanta. The only thing I noticed was a crew change.
I will agree with you that I got swindled...by the US airline in question!
I can see by some of the other responses that there are airlines (no, the one I flew was not mentioned) that do fly direct from NY to LA or SF. I did not see any evidence of this while I was in the States and I was told by many of the people who were on the planes and in the airports that this is typical in America.
Cheers!
To Apaddyinuk,
I actually had my seat confirmed on the US airline (I don't want to mention names to be seen as backlashing them) two weeks before my flight out of Heathrow. That flight was supposed to be direct from New York to Los Angeles, or so I was told. When I arrived at the airport to leave for Hawaii I found out that the airline had over-booked and I was on stand-by. They had given my seat away DISPITE the fact I called to confirm the reservation.
I was not trying to find cheap seats, nor did I do this over the internet. The tickets were provided through a travel agency. The reason I asked US pilots was because I was hoping for a logical explanation to the "hub" system I was constantly told about by the Americans. I do, indeed, know that the pilots fly the plane! However, wouldn't they know why we were flying to Atlanta when everyone aboard this partitcular flight (except me and a few other people) were wanting to go to Dallas? No one on the plane from Pittsburgh got off in Atlanta. The only thing I noticed was a crew change.
I will agree with you that I got swindled...by the US airline in question!
I can see by some of the other responses that there are airlines (no, the one I flew was not mentioned) that do fly direct from NY to LA or SF. I did not see any evidence of this while I was in the States and I was told by many of the people who were on the planes and in the airports that this is typical in America.
Cheers!
xfeed:
Route structures are indeed a question for the commercial management of an airline rather than its pilots.
New York does not actually offer a lot of business to Hawaii, and the daily nonstop Continental 767-400 from Newark scoops much of the trade. It is a low-yield route (little business traffic) primarily for holidaymakers (like yourself).
The example routing you were given is ludicrous for a New York to LA reroute due to overbooking . I cannot think of a single airline which could have taken you on such a routing, you would have to switch airlines along the way.
Overbooking is an appropriate way to handle the significant numbers of people who do not turn up for their booked flight for a range of reasons. In the US if you were denied boarding on your booked flight you are NOT "put on standby", they ask for volunteers to take the next flight and offer significant compensation for this, in addition to meals, hotels, and putting you in First Class. I have never known there to be insufficient volunteers, particularly on a route like New York to LA with plenty of following flights. Only as a final backstop will they do an "IDB" (Involuntary Denied Boarding), which has to be reported to the Federal authorities, and you have to be paid even more substantial compensation, none of which you mentioned.
Quite frankly, I don't believe this story at all, particularly the statement that on a Pittsburgh - Atlanta - Dallas through flight (presumably either Delta or AirTran) nobody got off the plane at all at Atlanta.
Route structures are indeed a question for the commercial management of an airline rather than its pilots.
New York does not actually offer a lot of business to Hawaii, and the daily nonstop Continental 767-400 from Newark scoops much of the trade. It is a low-yield route (little business traffic) primarily for holidaymakers (like yourself).
The example routing you were given is ludicrous for a New York to LA reroute due to overbooking . I cannot think of a single airline which could have taken you on such a routing, you would have to switch airlines along the way.
Overbooking is an appropriate way to handle the significant numbers of people who do not turn up for their booked flight for a range of reasons. In the US if you were denied boarding on your booked flight you are NOT "put on standby", they ask for volunteers to take the next flight and offer significant compensation for this, in addition to meals, hotels, and putting you in First Class. I have never known there to be insufficient volunteers, particularly on a route like New York to LA with plenty of following flights. Only as a final backstop will they do an "IDB" (Involuntary Denied Boarding), which has to be reported to the Federal authorities, and you have to be paid even more substantial compensation, none of which you mentioned.
Quite frankly, I don't believe this story at all, particularly the statement that on a Pittsburgh - Atlanta - Dallas through flight (presumably either Delta or AirTran) nobody got off the plane at all at Atlanta.
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Question X- Are/were you aware that there is a difference between a direct and a non-stop flight? You, quite possibly, were on a direct flight. You don't mention if you changed aircraft at any stops or not. If you did, sorry, I missed it. At any rate, this qualifies for a direct flight. The only factor that determines a direct flight is the flight number. It should remain the same throughout all of your connections. You may even change aircraft, as long as the FN is the same, it's still direct. This is a situation that I hear about often, many people make the non-stop assumption.
I do fly for an American carrier (guess who) and what you experienced was not a typical hub and spoke operation of a major carrier. Sure sounds like Southwest to me.
I do fly for an American carrier (guess who) and what you experienced was not a typical hub and spoke operation of a major carrier. Sure sounds like Southwest to me.
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Codesharing is bad enough, but I've always cordially detested the practice of US (I've never come across this in Europe) carriers identifying flights involving an aircraft change with the same flight number and trying to pretend that this somehow makes them 'direct'. I assume this is a scam dreamed up by the boys (they usually are boys) in red braces in the hope of gaining a few extra bookings.
Of course, few experienced travellers are likely to be fooled by this trick and those that are will probably be sufficiently annoyed to avoid the carrier in future.
</rant> I feel better now, nurse.
Of course, few experienced travellers are likely to be fooled by this trick and those that are will probably be sufficiently annoyed to avoid the carrier in future.
</rant> I feel better now, nurse.
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Sure sounds like Southwest to me.
I'm guessing by the time the airline tried to rebook, there was nothing reasonable left to LAX. And not much out of NY at all, if JFK-PIT (US ?), PIT-(ATL)-DFW (DL ?) and DFW-LAX (DL again) was the best they could do. The claim that no-one deplaned at ATL does surprise me, but I suppose it happens.
I'm not sure which rules would apply to the continuation of a transatlantic segment, but I believe one can refuse an unreasonable itinerary caused by bumping.
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I will agree with you that I got swindled...by the US airline in question!
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"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
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paxboy
Double uuurrr, nope. He was bumped JFK-LAX. Nothing to do with the agency. Do try to keep up 
Uuurrrr, Nope. It sounds like you got swindled by the travel agency that you said booked this package for you.
That flight was supposed to be direct from New York to Los Angeles, or so I was told. When I arrived at the airport to leave for Hawaii I found out that the airline had over-booked and I was on stand-by. They had given my seat away DISPITE (sic) the fact I called to confirm the reservation.
