passenger dies...subdued by passengers during a flight
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passenger dies...subdued by passengers during a flight
Here come the lawsuits....
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Death of Disruptive Airline Passenger Probed
Subdued by Passengers, Man Removed Dead From Jet
NEW YORK (March 20) - Prosecutors are investigating the death of a man who was subdued by several fellow airline passengers after he became disruptive on a New York-bound flight, a spokesman said Sunday.
William Lee was pronounced dead late Friday after he was removed from the American Airlines flight at Kennedy International Airport. The cause of death had not yet been determined and was under investigation.
Lee, 48, of New York, stood up in his seat on American's Flight 4 from Los Angeles and ''loudly demanded another beer,'' airline spokesman Tim Smith said.
Flight attendants asked him to wait until they reached his row, Smith said, but the man ''got very, very belligerent and loud and disruptive and was told he would not be served any more alcohol.''
The purser tried to calm him down, but he pushed her aside in order to get to the aisle, the spokesman said.
Seven other male passengers restrained Lee, who was a very large man, and they and the flight crew put flexible handcuffs on him and put him back in his seat, Smith said.
Lee got out of his seat again and the seven passengers held him on his back on the galley floor until the plane landed, Smith said. He said he had heard reports the men were members of a rugby team but said he couldn't yet confirm that.
After the landing, Port Authority police boarded the plane and administered CPR to Lee, who ''was in some kind of distress,'' Smith said.
******************
Death of Disruptive Airline Passenger Probed
Subdued by Passengers, Man Removed Dead From Jet
NEW YORK (March 20) - Prosecutors are investigating the death of a man who was subdued by several fellow airline passengers after he became disruptive on a New York-bound flight, a spokesman said Sunday.
William Lee was pronounced dead late Friday after he was removed from the American Airlines flight at Kennedy International Airport. The cause of death had not yet been determined and was under investigation.
Lee, 48, of New York, stood up in his seat on American's Flight 4 from Los Angeles and ''loudly demanded another beer,'' airline spokesman Tim Smith said.
Flight attendants asked him to wait until they reached his row, Smith said, but the man ''got very, very belligerent and loud and disruptive and was told he would not be served any more alcohol.''
The purser tried to calm him down, but he pushed her aside in order to get to the aisle, the spokesman said.
Seven other male passengers restrained Lee, who was a very large man, and they and the flight crew put flexible handcuffs on him and put him back in his seat, Smith said.
Lee got out of his seat again and the seven passengers held him on his back on the galley floor until the plane landed, Smith said. He said he had heard reports the men were members of a rugby team but said he couldn't yet confirm that.
After the landing, Port Authority police boarded the plane and administered CPR to Lee, who ''was in some kind of distress,'' Smith said.
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These incidents have happened a few times over the years. I remember one incident discussed here years ago where a pax out of BKK tried to kick out a window and was restrained and given an injection by a doctor onboard to calm him down. They diverted to Terhan and the pax expired.
Here's another case similar to the one at JFK that occurred pre 9-11:
_______________________________________
Sep 16, 2000
A nineteen year old youth who allegedly tried to break into the cockpit during a Southwest Airlines flight was killed by the passengers who restrained him, not by a heart attack, an autopsy has concluded.
The U.S. Attorney's office described Jonathan Burton's August 11 death as an act of self-defense by frightened passengers and said it would not file criminal charges.
Burton, from Las Vegas, became combative 20 minutes before Flight 1763 was due to land, hitting other passengers and pounding on the locked cockpit door, reports said.
As many as eight of the plane's 120 passengers subdued him and held him down until the flight arrived in Salt Lake City, reports said.
Burton died after being removed from the plane, and authorities believed he had died of a heart attack.
The autopsy report classified his death a homicide because it resulted from "intentional actions by another individual or individuals."
The report, released by Burton's family, said he suffocated. He also had bruises and scratches on his torso, face and neck and suffered blunt force injuries.
"He was strangled, beaten and kicked," said family attorney Kent Spence. "We'd like to know how this could have happened to this young man. This kid had no history of violence, he would sooner take a spider outside than kill it."
The autopsy found low levels of marijuana in Burton's body but said that was an "unlikely explanation" for his violent outburst.
The family has not decided whether to sue Southwest Airlines or the passengers, Spence said.
Statistics from the Federal Aviation Administration showed 292 incidents of "unruly passengers" last year, up from 138 in 1995. The FAA can recommend fines of up to $25,000 for airline passengers who "assault, threaten, intimidate or interfere with a crew member."
http://news.airwise.com/stories/2000/09/969146121.html
Here's another case similar to the one at JFK that occurred pre 9-11:
_______________________________________
Sep 16, 2000
A nineteen year old youth who allegedly tried to break into the cockpit during a Southwest Airlines flight was killed by the passengers who restrained him, not by a heart attack, an autopsy has concluded.
The U.S. Attorney's office described Jonathan Burton's August 11 death as an act of self-defense by frightened passengers and said it would not file criminal charges.
Burton, from Las Vegas, became combative 20 minutes before Flight 1763 was due to land, hitting other passengers and pounding on the locked cockpit door, reports said.
As many as eight of the plane's 120 passengers subdued him and held him down until the flight arrived in Salt Lake City, reports said.
Burton died after being removed from the plane, and authorities believed he had died of a heart attack.
The autopsy report classified his death a homicide because it resulted from "intentional actions by another individual or individuals."
The report, released by Burton's family, said he suffocated. He also had bruises and scratches on his torso, face and neck and suffered blunt force injuries.
"He was strangled, beaten and kicked," said family attorney Kent Spence. "We'd like to know how this could have happened to this young man. This kid had no history of violence, he would sooner take a spider outside than kill it."
The autopsy found low levels of marijuana in Burton's body but said that was an "unlikely explanation" for his violent outburst.
The family has not decided whether to sue Southwest Airlines or the passengers, Spence said.
Statistics from the Federal Aviation Administration showed 292 incidents of "unruly passengers" last year, up from 138 in 1995. The FAA can recommend fines of up to $25,000 for airline passengers who "assault, threaten, intimidate or interfere with a crew member."
http://news.airwise.com/stories/2000/09/969146121.html
Guess thats exactly what happens when you watch too much Hollywood !!
Seven guys "restraining" one guy. What the hell would you expect the outcome to be other than the obvious.
Seven guys "restraining" one guy. What the hell would you expect the outcome to be other than the obvious.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Restraining people can be very dangerous, and very unobviously so. If even policemen and prison officers can get it wrong, it's so much more likely that untrained people can. If this is going to happen regularly, maybe cabin crew ought to get some training about just what can happen so that they can take some role in supervising those who are helping out?
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As I see it the only good thing to come of this is the message that disruptive behaviour is not tolerated on-board airliners.
Law suits aside, it is illegal be drunk on-board an aircraft.
I may sound harsh, but I am glad the drunk fellow did not get away with this.
Law suits aside, it is illegal be drunk on-board an aircraft.
I may sound harsh, but I am glad the drunk fellow did not get away with this.
Would it be too much to suggest that disruptive behaviour on an aircraft is life threatening behaviour in that no one is going to prosecute the restrainers if they are a little too harsh?
Furthermore, why is the consumption of alcohol still allowed on aircraft? Why do we need to supply duty free either?
Furthermore, why is the consumption of alcohol still allowed on aircraft? Why do we need to supply duty free either?
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Unfortunately, incidents like this, known as positional asphyxia, happen every now and then, to members of the Police Service.
The report that seven other passengers were restraining this person makes no difference. It would have had the same outcome if it was ONE person. If the man was being restrained face down, he could have become unconcious within 20 seconds due to not being able to expand the lungs sufficiently. If he was over-weight, this would have made it worse.
I fear that the excellent intentions of the other passengers may end up with them facing serious charges, when really they should be getting commendations.
When will people ever learn that loutish behaviour on board an aircraft is a serious crime, and should never be tolerated? When will the courts treat this with the seriousness it deserves and deal out some lengthy sentences?
Whilst i'm sure we'd all agree this man didn't derserve to go in this way, I hope his demise will make the next drunk passenger, who thinks he can throw his weight around, think twice and sit down, shut up, and wait until he gets to his destination before drinking himself into a stuper.
Good luck to those passengers. My thoughts are with you.
The report that seven other passengers were restraining this person makes no difference. It would have had the same outcome if it was ONE person. If the man was being restrained face down, he could have become unconcious within 20 seconds due to not being able to expand the lungs sufficiently. If he was over-weight, this would have made it worse.
I fear that the excellent intentions of the other passengers may end up with them facing serious charges, when really they should be getting commendations.
When will people ever learn that loutish behaviour on board an aircraft is a serious crime, and should never be tolerated? When will the courts treat this with the seriousness it deserves and deal out some lengthy sentences?
Whilst i'm sure we'd all agree this man didn't derserve to go in this way, I hope his demise will make the next drunk passenger, who thinks he can throw his weight around, think twice and sit down, shut up, and wait until he gets to his destination before drinking himself into a stuper.
Good luck to those passengers. My thoughts are with you.
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Get away with disruptive behaviour on an aircraft!
Drunks will never think.
I fear the only way to avoid this situation in the future is strict control of alchoholism before and during flight.
Before flight check everyone is sober.
During the flight make sure no-one drinks alchohol (by not selling it for starters).
Drastic but would solve some problems.
Cabin crew may argue that alchohol relaxes people and therefore helps those with a fear of flight by sedation etc... The arguements could go on....
Drunks will never think.
I fear the only way to avoid this situation in the future is strict control of alchoholism before and during flight.
Before flight check everyone is sober.
During the flight make sure no-one drinks alchohol (by not selling it for starters).
Drastic but would solve some problems.
Cabin crew may argue that alchohol relaxes people and therefore helps those with a fear of flight by sedation etc... The arguements could go on....
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I may sound harsh, but I am glad the drunk fellow did not get away with this.
Surely this is a tragedy for everyone involved - the pax who restrained him, the CC, the man who died and the family he's left behind.
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Yes this is sad. I would not wish death on anyone. Unfortunately it has happened. If you were there as one of those passengers would you sit back and let a drunken passenger harm your safety and that of fellow passengers?
Or would you do what the 8 rugby playing types did and sedate him?
Or would you do what the 8 rugby playing types did and sedate him?
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Considering the events of the last few years, there is no excuse for bad behaviour of any sort when on board an aircraft.
Good to see no-one was going to wait around to find out!
I have been under the afluence of incohol numerous times (post 9/11) when paxing in the back end of an aircraft, but then again I'm not the beligerent/suicidal type when drunk.
get away with what?
I have been under the afluence of incohol numerous times (post 9/11) when paxing in the back end of an aircraft, but then again I'm not the beligerent/suicidal type when drunk.
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Several people posting have queried the need for serving drink on board. The problem often is that the person is at least semi-drunk when boarding. You only have to go to Manchester or Gatwick to see the state some people are in when they present themselves at the gate, particularly for charter flights.
Most of the problems should be tackled pre-boarding and the law regarding boarding an aircraft whilst drunk should be enforced. This is the time to do it when their are the appropriate authorities available to back up staff. Instead of which, to avoid trouble, the potentially problematic passenger is allowed to board. They then become the responsibility of cabin crew most of whom are physically incapable of dealing with them.
A firm policy of not allowing people to board when inebriated would be a tremendous boon to flight crew. Not getting your holiday because you are drunk concentrates the mind and particularly the minds of your travelling companions who will have their plans disrupted.
Most of the problems should be tackled pre-boarding and the law regarding boarding an aircraft whilst drunk should be enforced. This is the time to do it when their are the appropriate authorities available to back up staff. Instead of which, to avoid trouble, the potentially problematic passenger is allowed to board. They then become the responsibility of cabin crew most of whom are physically incapable of dealing with them.
A firm policy of not allowing people to board when inebriated would be a tremendous boon to flight crew. Not getting your holiday because you are drunk concentrates the mind and particularly the minds of your travelling companions who will have their plans disrupted.
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Seven other male passengers restrained Lee, who was a very large man
Guess thats exactly what happens when you watch too much Hollywood !!
The image of 5 "Rugby Players" is it now? Restraining overweight drunk in the cramped area of an aircraft aisle, is clearly a recipe for disaster. Something is bound to give.
We have all witnessed recent similar scenarios on TV when seven burly cops restrain a drunk in the street or seven burly prison officers restrain a belligerent prisoner in his cell. The outcome is always the same.
Had this guy been brandishing a lethal weapon like the ragged edge of a smashed booze bottle, or threatening to set fire to the contents which he had previously poured over the seats,
Or even the unthinkable, waving a 2-inch nail clipper around threatening to take over the aircraft, then there could be clear justification for the actions. He was a drunk who had presumably been fed the legal intoxicant in the terminal building and on the aircraft.
When you drink to much of that stuff you get drunk, when you get drunk you do strange things, doing strange things in an aircraft at 30 odd thousand feet is not recommended these days.
Restrict the sale of duty free alcohol and unlimited drinks in the terminal, thus depriving anyone with both a lethal weapon and a reason to go loco on board and restrict the amount of alcohol supplied on board. Perhaps that way we could reduce the incidents of air rage and the need for passengers to feel the need to act as Rambos or Prison Warders.
We have all witnessed recent similar scenarios on TV when seven burly cops restrain a drunk in the street or seven burly prison officers restrain a belligerent prisoner in his cell. The outcome is always the same.
Had this guy been brandishing a lethal weapon like the ragged edge of a smashed booze bottle, or threatening to set fire to the contents which he had previously poured over the seats,
Or even the unthinkable, waving a 2-inch nail clipper around threatening to take over the aircraft, then there could be clear justification for the actions. He was a drunk who had presumably been fed the legal intoxicant in the terminal building and on the aircraft.
When you drink to much of that stuff you get drunk, when you get drunk you do strange things, doing strange things in an aircraft at 30 odd thousand feet is not recommended these days.
Restrict the sale of duty free alcohol and unlimited drinks in the terminal, thus depriving anyone with both a lethal weapon and a reason to go loco on board and restrict the amount of alcohol supplied on board. Perhaps that way we could reduce the incidents of air rage and the need for passengers to feel the need to act as Rambos or Prison Warders.
Presumeably if there had been an air marshall on board he would have saved the passengers time by shooting him. Not sure how the legal system works in the US but in the UK they would be very lucky not to be facing manslaughter charges. There would seem to have been no intent to interfere with the operation of flight, ie trying to knock the flightdeck door down, and wether they intended it or not, lethal force was used to restrain him. They are on rather dodgy legal ground I suspect.
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http://www.zarc.com/english/other_sp..._delirium.html
Have a look at this, sounds like this guy suffered from "Excited Delirium" current thinking is once restrained you've got 1 1/2 hours to get them safe and free to move or they drop dead through hypothermia or heart attack
Have a look at this, sounds like this guy suffered from "Excited Delirium" current thinking is once restrained you've got 1 1/2 hours to get them safe and free to move or they drop dead through hypothermia or heart attack
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Shame the chap died, nobody deserves that.
However is it any surprise now that passengers will intervene if they suspect a nutter is trying to get into the cockpit? Had I been a passenger on that flight then I too would have been scared, perhaps not before 9/11 but now I sure would be.
As a Pilot I now feel much more secure in the knowledge that the folks down the back will not sit back and wonder what to do when they see a lunatic (drunk or otherwise) attempt to break into the cockpit. What were they to think, oh perhaps the chap was just being friendly and wanted to give the skipper a big kiss?
The result was tragic no argument, but better that than the plane going in like a tent peg.
However is it any surprise now that passengers will intervene if they suspect a nutter is trying to get into the cockpit? Had I been a passenger on that flight then I too would have been scared, perhaps not before 9/11 but now I sure would be.
As a Pilot I now feel much more secure in the knowledge that the folks down the back will not sit back and wonder what to do when they see a lunatic (drunk or otherwise) attempt to break into the cockpit. What were they to think, oh perhaps the chap was just being friendly and wanted to give the skipper a big kiss?
The result was tragic no argument, but better that than the plane going in like a tent peg.
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asphyxia
Another headline case
This case was ruled heart failure induced by asphyxia - he was grossly overweight and lying face down under restraint. Many similarities to this weeks event, including the state of intoxication.
This case was ruled heart failure induced by asphyxia - he was grossly overweight and lying face down under restraint. Many similarities to this weeks event, including the state of intoxication.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Am I the only person who thinks that banning the service of alcohol on board all flights is a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut? Yes, there is air rage from time to time, but is there so much of it that it needs such a dramatic and inhospitable response? I don't think so, especially if the airlines would do as they threaten and deny boarding to already-drunk passengers.
What seems to be needed, though, is some training to at least one cabin crew member as to what are safe and unsafe positions in which to restrain a person, "excited delirium" or not. (BTW, 1½ hours may be about 20 times the time that's needed to kill someone with an inappropriate restraint position.) So even if there are seven untrained rugby players, all of whom are needed, there should be someone who can direct operations. It's not a big addition to the first aid training and defibrillator training that's already given.
What seems to be needed, though, is some training to at least one cabin crew member as to what are safe and unsafe positions in which to restrain a person, "excited delirium" or not. (BTW, 1½ hours may be about 20 times the time that's needed to kill someone with an inappropriate restraint position.) So even if there are seven untrained rugby players, all of whom are needed, there should be someone who can direct operations. It's not a big addition to the first aid training and defibrillator training that's already given.