Mobile phone regulations?
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Nice, Cote d'Azur, France
Mobile phone regulations?
Dear Ppruners,
Apologies in advance if this is the wrong forum for such a query, but it's not totally clear from consideration of other postings here what is considered to be relevant or otherwise.
Anyway, i am really curious to understand what is - or what isn't - the situation regarding the pre-flight use of mobile phones.
For SLF who use multiple carriers the situation is extremely confusing, since the "rules" seem to be applied on a very ad hoc basis.
For example, as a very regular traveller with BMI, one is allowed to use a mobile phone up until the cabin doors have been closed. This proves very useful on the rare occasion when there is a delay, as it enables one to keep in touch with one's recipients and obviates their need for unecessary hanging around at the destination airport.
By contrast, EasyJet (for example) insists that mobile phones should be extinguished before boarding the aircraft.
This inconsistency is mighty confusing, and can lead to unnecessary and unfulfilling "discussions" with cabin crew!
Surely CAA technical experts have investigated these issues and proffered advice/regulations to UK -Registered carriers? If so, why do different carriers have different policies?
Yours looking for a self-consitent and legally-relevant explanation,
QV
Apologies in advance if this is the wrong forum for such a query, but it's not totally clear from consideration of other postings here what is considered to be relevant or otherwise.
Anyway, i am really curious to understand what is - or what isn't - the situation regarding the pre-flight use of mobile phones.
For SLF who use multiple carriers the situation is extremely confusing, since the "rules" seem to be applied on a very ad hoc basis.
For example, as a very regular traveller with BMI, one is allowed to use a mobile phone up until the cabin doors have been closed. This proves very useful on the rare occasion when there is a delay, as it enables one to keep in touch with one's recipients and obviates their need for unecessary hanging around at the destination airport.
By contrast, EasyJet (for example) insists that mobile phones should be extinguished before boarding the aircraft.
This inconsistency is mighty confusing, and can lead to unnecessary and unfulfilling "discussions" with cabin crew!
Surely CAA technical experts have investigated these issues and proffered advice/regulations to UK -Registered carriers? If so, why do different carriers have different policies?
Yours looking for a self-consitent and legally-relevant explanation,
QV
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 562
Likes: 0
From: Grobelling through the murk to the sunshine above.
This is the CAA advice/ruling:
"Mobile phones and personal electronic equipment
The CAA has conducted research which provided evidence that a mobile phone transmission on-board an aircraft may interfere with equipment including communications, navigation and flight control systems. There is circumstantial evidence that portable electronic devices such as CD players and computer games can also cause interference. As a result there is a requirement that:
The use of mobile phones on board aircraft is prohibited while the aircraft's engines are running.
In addition, the use of personal electronic equipment by passengers, such as laptop computers, electronic games, calculators, CD players, cassette players, radios, TVs, video cameras and remote controlled toys, is prohibited during take-off and landing phases, when the passenger seat belt sign is on, and whenever the aircraft commander suspects that their use may be the cause of interference."
Different carriers have different policies because they implement the regulations differently. Perhaps (speculation on my part) Easyjet are slightly more restrictive because they routinely turnaround very quickly, thus wish the passengers' telephones to be switched off at all times on board, as the engines may be startd very shortly therafter.
"Mobile phones and personal electronic equipment
The CAA has conducted research which provided evidence that a mobile phone transmission on-board an aircraft may interfere with equipment including communications, navigation and flight control systems. There is circumstantial evidence that portable electronic devices such as CD players and computer games can also cause interference. As a result there is a requirement that:
The use of mobile phones on board aircraft is prohibited while the aircraft's engines are running.
In addition, the use of personal electronic equipment by passengers, such as laptop computers, electronic games, calculators, CD players, cassette players, radios, TVs, video cameras and remote controlled toys, is prohibited during take-off and landing phases, when the passenger seat belt sign is on, and whenever the aircraft commander suspects that their use may be the cause of interference."
Different carriers have different policies because they implement the regulations differently. Perhaps (speculation on my part) Easyjet are slightly more restrictive because they routinely turnaround very quickly, thus wish the passengers' telephones to be switched off at all times on board, as the engines may be startd very shortly therafter.
Paxing All Over The World
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,842
Likes: 328
From: Hertfordshire, UK.
Search the PPRuNe archives, there are MANY threads about this, usually in PAX & SLF.
Bascially, what the CAA + FAA advise is for nothing - if the carrier that you are on says No. The fact that many new mobile (cell) phones have a 'flight' mode where the transmitter is off, so that you can use the games and PDA functions etc - most carriers will not accept that it IS turned off and will not want to see any device in use.
It's their aircraft and their insurance if it goes wrong! So keep listening for announcements and ask the cabin staff. If in doubt - don't!
Bascially, what the CAA + FAA advise is for nothing - if the carrier that you are on says No. The fact that many new mobile (cell) phones have a 'flight' mode where the transmitter is off, so that you can use the games and PDA functions etc - most carriers will not accept that it IS turned off and will not want to see any device in use.
It's their aircraft and their insurance if it goes wrong! So keep listening for announcements and ask the cabin staff. If in doubt - don't!
Moderator
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,586
Likes: 0
From: Orlando, Florida
have a 'flight' mode
Every carrier I've flown with in the USA says "Phones may be ON until cabin doors closed before departure then OFF until vacating the runway and starting the taxi back to the terminal".
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
From: Adelaide, Australia
Mobile phone during flight soon to be a reality..
Hi, i'm writing this in regard to an article which I read at:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...E23349,00.html
about airbus inventing technology that will soon allow mobile phones to be usable during flight. Does anyone else agree with me that if anyone REALLY is THAT desperate to use a call during flight, they can walk up a few asiles to the satalite phone and use it!!...... seriously....the last thing we need is annoying ring tones going off at 3am "local time" in the cabin when everyone is resting and stuff, or trying to talk and trying to "whisper" but...really, they're just yelling at the top of their lungs trying to hear the person on the opposite side of the phone above the engine noise... what do u guys think about it?
Or if this this technology does come into play......have some kind of regulation that phones must be on vibrate or something like that???
Needless to say, how mobile phones affect onboard electrical instruments is still not an exact science, so can u imagine if now everyone is allowed to use their phones in flight?!?!...
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...E23349,00.html
about airbus inventing technology that will soon allow mobile phones to be usable during flight. Does anyone else agree with me that if anyone REALLY is THAT desperate to use a call during flight, they can walk up a few asiles to the satalite phone and use it!!...... seriously....the last thing we need is annoying ring tones going off at 3am "local time" in the cabin when everyone is resting and stuff, or trying to talk and trying to "whisper" but...really, they're just yelling at the top of their lungs trying to hear the person on the opposite side of the phone above the engine noise... what do u guys think about it?
Or if this this technology does come into play......have some kind of regulation that phones must be on vibrate or something like that???
Needless to say, how mobile phones affect onboard electrical instruments is still not an exact science, so can u imagine if now everyone is allowed to use their phones in flight?!?!...
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,896
Likes: 1
From: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Those deadly cellphones will now be allowed in flight if the airline gets a cut of the action:
__________________________________________
Cellphones may soon be allowed on planes
February 16 2005 at 12:44PM
Geneva - Airline passengers will soon be able to use their cellphones under a deal signed on Tuesday by European aeronautics giant Airbus and a technology firm based in Geneva.
OnAir's voice and data systems will be a standard option on all new Airbus superjumbo A380 planes from 2006, giving passengers on all flights the chance make calls using their own phones, chief executive George Cooper said.
The technology could also be fitted to Boeing aircraft, and will be used to give passengers Internet access using their own laptops, he said.
Users of cellphones with roaming capability will be able to make and receive calls using a base station within the plane, which will use GSM technology, the main European system.
'Because that is the dominant standard and will be for years'
Many users will not be able to connect to US or Asian networks, but Cooper said OnAir had "focused on the cellphone side on GSM, because that is the dominant standard and will be for years".
The company is banking on a large increase in GSM-compatible phones being sold in North America and Asia, he said.
OnAir estimates the global market for airliner Internet access at about $400-million annually.
For a cellphone service, revenues could be four times as high. - Sapa-AP
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_i...0138679C424367
Also:
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000530032185/
__________________________________________
Cellphones may soon be allowed on planes
February 16 2005 at 12:44PM
Geneva - Airline passengers will soon be able to use their cellphones under a deal signed on Tuesday by European aeronautics giant Airbus and a technology firm based in Geneva.
OnAir's voice and data systems will be a standard option on all new Airbus superjumbo A380 planes from 2006, giving passengers on all flights the chance make calls using their own phones, chief executive George Cooper said.
The technology could also be fitted to Boeing aircraft, and will be used to give passengers Internet access using their own laptops, he said.
Users of cellphones with roaming capability will be able to make and receive calls using a base station within the plane, which will use GSM technology, the main European system.
'Because that is the dominant standard and will be for years'
Many users will not be able to connect to US or Asian networks, but Cooper said OnAir had "focused on the cellphone side on GSM, because that is the dominant standard and will be for years".
The company is banking on a large increase in GSM-compatible phones being sold in North America and Asia, he said.
OnAir estimates the global market for airliner Internet access at about $400-million annually.
For a cellphone service, revenues could be four times as high. - Sapa-AP
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_i...0138679C424367
Also:
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000530032185/
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Everywhere
Agreed! I think it's inappropriate to be using cell/mobile phones on an aircraft, or for that matter anywhere where your neighbour is forced to listen to the conversation.
I have no problem with people using their phone whilst bungee jumping foreinstance!
I have no problem with people using their phone whilst bungee jumping foreinstance!
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Washington
All carriers do not allow the use of mobile phones to be used whilst the aircraft is underway, due to signal interference with flight guidance instruments in the aircraft (and from personnal experience these can be quite severe although random). But as you say the boarding restriction are totally random. As for bmi's rules, we allow the use of phones up until the doors are shut. The exception to this, is when the aircraft is still being fuelled whilst the passengers are boarding. This however changed last year, after a CAA investigation found that the likelyhood of a fuel ignition from a phone on board the aircraft to be extremely unlikely. Therefore under the CAA's recommendation we now allow the use of phones whilst we are fuelling, which means you should always be allowed to use your phone when ever you are boarding a bmi plane, up until the doors are shut!.
Further, there are times when a delay occurs after the doors are shut and before the engines are started. In these cases most bmi crews would allow the use of mobile phones on an ad hoc basis.
This is purely the bmi position, which is really a customer service based decision,whilst remaining within safety guidelines, and this is probably the reason why other carriers have different policies.
Hope this helps!
Further, there are times when a delay occurs after the doors are shut and before the engines are started. In these cases most bmi crews would allow the use of mobile phones on an ad hoc basis.
This is purely the bmi position, which is really a customer service based decision,whilst remaining within safety guidelines, and this is probably the reason why other carriers have different policies.
Hope this helps!
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,395
Likes: 857
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
The policy on use of mobile phones is very unclear.
Lufthansa allegedly prohibit use of phones at any time - yet earlier this week on the Tuesday 1430 FRA-LHR flight, the passenger in 2D was brazenly using his in full view of the cabin staff before engine start. Is there a consistent policy? If not, why not. Or is it a "We don't want to upset Senator card holders, so we'll turn a blind eye" policy?
Why not a clear PA announcing "All mobile phones must now be switched OFF until the aircraft reaches its arrival parking spot"? Simple, unambiguous - and firm action should be taken against offenders!
Lufthansa allegedly prohibit use of phones at any time - yet earlier this week on the Tuesday 1430 FRA-LHR flight, the passenger in 2D was brazenly using his in full view of the cabin staff before engine start. Is there a consistent policy? If not, why not. Or is it a "We don't want to upset Senator card holders, so we'll turn a blind eye" policy?
Why not a clear PA announcing "All mobile phones must now be switched OFF until the aircraft reaches its arrival parking spot"? Simple, unambiguous - and firm action should be taken against offenders!
Last edited by BEagle; 19th February 2005 at 08:20.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,389
Likes: 0
From: England
As I understand it…
Mobile phones boost their signal strength when they think they are out of range of a base station. So once airborne all those phones left on by accident in luggage and overhead lockers boost their output power.
Perhaps adding a low power base station to an aircraft would actually reduce interference? E.g. by allowing these on, but idle phones to turn down their output power.
Whatever happens I hope the airborne base stations don’t allow phones to be used during the night phase of long haul flights.
Mobile phones boost their signal strength when they think they are out of range of a base station. So once airborne all those phones left on by accident in luggage and overhead lockers boost their output power.
Perhaps adding a low power base station to an aircraft would actually reduce interference? E.g. by allowing these on, but idle phones to turn down their output power.
Whatever happens I hope the airborne base stations don’t allow phones to be used during the night phase of long haul flights.
PPRuNe Supporter
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
From: Devon, UK
cwatters is correct, systems being trialed mean that mobile phones broadcast at low power rather than the much higher power required to reach a cell site from 6 miles up.
Whilst this is the way things are inevitably going to go, I do hope airlines charge a fortune for this service, to discourage the use of phones on board as much as possible. I can't think of anything more tortuous than listening to some pillock telling fifty of his closest friends "YEAH, I'M ON THE 'PLANE"...serious air rage
Whilst this is the way things are inevitably going to go, I do hope airlines charge a fortune for this service, to discourage the use of phones on board as much as possible. I can't think of anything more tortuous than listening to some pillock telling fifty of his closest friends "YEAH, I'M ON THE 'PLANE"...serious air rage
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,395
Likes: 857
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
That would be an extremely irritating annoyance! If airlines are to permit the use of mobile phones with an in-flight picocell, then they must provide soundproof booths (about the same size as lavatories) and charge €10 per minute for the privilege......
Their marketing choice - keep the current ban or lose seats and install soundproof phone boxes!
I don't think that I've read any posts on any website indicating that anyone considers in-flight mobile phone use to be in any way acceptable.
Their marketing choice - keep the current ban or lose seats and install soundproof phone boxes!
I don't think that I've read any posts on any website indicating that anyone considers in-flight mobile phone use to be in any way acceptable.
Gnome de PPRuNe
Joined: Jan 2002
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
Posts: 15,189
Likes: 1,201
From: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Quite agree, keep them off - or provide a mobile zone... I like Virgin Trains "quiet" carriages.
Incidently, I was on an EasyJet A319 recently and the bloke next to me, clearly frustrated at not being allowed to shout at his office, wife, cat, etc, during the hour we were aboard, was toying with his mobile as we taxied out... snapping the cover open, closed, blah... I read my book.
As we started to accelerate on the runway, to my great delight he dropped it and could only watch as it disappeared backwards under his seat when we rotated. Now, I've no idea whether the life jacket or anything else would have impeded its progress aft - I do hope not! He was still searching for it as I bade the crew farewell at Gatwick.
It's the little things in life that make one's day...!
Incidently, I was on an EasyJet A319 recently and the bloke next to me, clearly frustrated at not being allowed to shout at his office, wife, cat, etc, during the hour we were aboard, was toying with his mobile as we taxied out... snapping the cover open, closed, blah... I read my book.
As we started to accelerate on the runway, to my great delight he dropped it and could only watch as it disappeared backwards under his seat when we rotated. Now, I've no idea whether the life jacket or anything else would have impeded its progress aft - I do hope not! He was still searching for it as I bade the crew farewell at Gatwick.
It's the little things in life that make one's day...!
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 849
Likes: 0
From: UK
How about you just listen to what you are told by the gate staff/cabin crew prior to each flight and comply with their request.
Or are you the sort of bloke who likes to argue the toss about everything? Do you stand and query the inconsistent and posssibly illegal requests to remove your shoes when you go and visit a friend's house, or do you just do the polite thing and do as you are asked?
It's amazing how important everybody's life has suddenly become since mobiles came into common use. Can't spend more than 30 seconds without an overwhelming compulsion to clamp it to their ears and talk absolute rubbish to anyone who will listen.
Or are you the sort of bloke who likes to argue the toss about everything? Do you stand and query the inconsistent and posssibly illegal requests to remove your shoes when you go and visit a friend's house, or do you just do the polite thing and do as you are asked?
It's amazing how important everybody's life has suddenly become since mobiles came into common use. Can't spend more than 30 seconds without an overwhelming compulsion to clamp it to their ears and talk absolute rubbish to anyone who will listen.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,178
Likes: 0
From: UK
Mobile phones should be banned from all flights..................................................... .............................terminals, busses, trains, cars, pubs, streets.........
Bring back peace and quiet!
Bring back peace and quiet!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 512
Likes: 0
From: UK
Alitalia seems to differ in that respect, as the plane comes into range of the transmitters on descent a tremendous cacaphony of noise will be heard of differing ringtones which appears not raise an eyebrow amongst the CC.
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
From: UK
quaerereverum - Previous replies not-withstanding, a possible reason for Easy wanting your phone off is that on most easy flights you board by walking across the ramp, not through an airbridge.
The use of mobiles on the ramp is heavily discouraged due to previous incidents whilst fueling was in progress, to the extent that handling agent mobiles are altered to enable them to be used on the ramp.
The use of mobiles on the ramp is heavily discouraged due to previous incidents whilst fueling was in progress, to the extent that handling agent mobiles are altered to enable them to be used on the ramp.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Nice, Cote d'Azur, France
Hi Everyone.
Thanks for your contributions.
HighandWide I greatly appreciate your explanation of BMI's policy, which is a very practical approach and completely accords with my own experience.
Fundamentally I guess I am appealing for consistency across all carriers.
After all, no matter which car we drive - mercedes, renault, ford, rover, etc - the "user interface" is exactly the same; steering wheel in the same place, gear stick in the same place, accelerator in the same place, brake pedal in the same place, etc, etc. We can jump into any car and start driving straightway.
So why - given that all UK carrriers are informed by the same CAA research and subject to the same regulations - are there as many different mobile phone policies as there are carriers? If such were the case in the automotive world, every car would have a unique configuration which would seriously mitigate against the benefits of universality!
For example - other than a few textual differences - the safety briefing "user interface" is effectively exactly the same across all carriers, which means that SLF can travel with confidence, knowing that they understand the common/standard emergency procedures.
The same needs to be true regarding use of mobile phones.
QV.
ps - I am definitely NOT advocating the use of mobiles in-flight; my only interest is in encouraging consistent pre-flight procedures.
Thanks for your contributions.
HighandWide I greatly appreciate your explanation of BMI's policy, which is a very practical approach and completely accords with my own experience.
Fundamentally I guess I am appealing for consistency across all carriers.
After all, no matter which car we drive - mercedes, renault, ford, rover, etc - the "user interface" is exactly the same; steering wheel in the same place, gear stick in the same place, accelerator in the same place, brake pedal in the same place, etc, etc. We can jump into any car and start driving straightway.
So why - given that all UK carrriers are informed by the same CAA research and subject to the same regulations - are there as many different mobile phone policies as there are carriers? If such were the case in the automotive world, every car would have a unique configuration which would seriously mitigate against the benefits of universality!
For example - other than a few textual differences - the safety briefing "user interface" is effectively exactly the same across all carriers, which means that SLF can travel with confidence, knowing that they understand the common/standard emergency procedures.
The same needs to be true regarding use of mobile phones.
QV.
ps - I am definitely NOT advocating the use of mobiles in-flight; my only interest is in encouraging consistent pre-flight procedures.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
From: MAN
It winds me up.
They announce it's time to turn off electronic devices for landing, the guy with the CD player doesn't hear because he's listening to the CD player. Cabin crew browse up and down the aisle paying no attention to him, or the guy videoing out the window, or the bloke with the game boy.
I flew with BMI recently and the cabin crew actually made people turn this stuff off. It was amazing.
Rules that aren't enforced are a really bad idea.
They announce it's time to turn off electronic devices for landing, the guy with the CD player doesn't hear because he's listening to the CD player. Cabin crew browse up and down the aisle paying no attention to him, or the guy videoing out the window, or the bloke with the game boy.
I flew with BMI recently and the cabin crew actually made people turn this stuff off. It was amazing.
Rules that aren't enforced are a really bad idea.
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 606
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
CosmosSchwartz,
Could you provide some more details of these incidents please (presumably there must be an AAIB report if they happened in the UK and caused any danger to an aircraft)? I'm also curious to know about these alleged modifications.
The use of mobiles on the ramp is heavily discouraged due to previous incidents whilst fueling was in progress, to the extent that handling agent mobiles are altered to enable them to be used on the ramp.