Another 9/11?
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This topic is also being discussed on USaviation.com, and it makes a very interesting read......
www.forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=36804
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www.forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=36804
.
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A story off the Dow Jones wire today:
Middle Eastern Men Scouting US Jets For New Attacks-Paper
NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--Flight crews and air marshals say Middle Eastern men are staking out airports, probing security measures and conducting test runs aboard airplanes for a terrorist attack, The Washington Times reported in its
Thursday editions.
At least two midflight incidents have involved numerous men of Middle Eastern descent behaving in what one pilot called "stereotypical" behavior of an organized attempt to attack a plane, the paper reported.
"No doubt these are dry runs for a terrorist attack," an air marshal said.
Pilots and air marshals who asked to remain anonymous told The Washington Times that surveillance by terrorists is rampant, using different probing methods.
"It's happening, and it's a sad state of affairs," a pilot said.
The Times reported that a June 29 incident aboard Northwest Airlines Flight 327 from Detroit to Los Angeles is similar to a Feb. 15 incident on American Airlines Flight 1732 from San Juan, Puerto Rico, to New York's John F. Kennedy Airport.
The Northwest flight involved 14 Syrian men and the American Airlines flight involved six men of Middle Eastern descent. The men were seated throughout the plane pretending to be strangers. Once airborne, they began congregating in groups of two or three, stood nearly the entire flight, and consecutively filed
in and out of bathrooms at different intervals, raising concern among passengers and flight attendants, the Times reported.
Link to the Washington Times story:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/natio...1403-1508r.htm
Middle Eastern Men Scouting US Jets For New Attacks-Paper
NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--Flight crews and air marshals say Middle Eastern men are staking out airports, probing security measures and conducting test runs aboard airplanes for a terrorist attack, The Washington Times reported in its
Thursday editions.
At least two midflight incidents have involved numerous men of Middle Eastern descent behaving in what one pilot called "stereotypical" behavior of an organized attempt to attack a plane, the paper reported.
"No doubt these are dry runs for a terrorist attack," an air marshal said.
Pilots and air marshals who asked to remain anonymous told The Washington Times that surveillance by terrorists is rampant, using different probing methods.
"It's happening, and it's a sad state of affairs," a pilot said.
The Times reported that a June 29 incident aboard Northwest Airlines Flight 327 from Detroit to Los Angeles is similar to a Feb. 15 incident on American Airlines Flight 1732 from San Juan, Puerto Rico, to New York's John F. Kennedy Airport.
The Northwest flight involved 14 Syrian men and the American Airlines flight involved six men of Middle Eastern descent. The men were seated throughout the plane pretending to be strangers. Once airborne, they began congregating in groups of two or three, stood nearly the entire flight, and consecutively filed
in and out of bathrooms at different intervals, raising concern among passengers and flight attendants, the Times reported.
Link to the Washington Times story:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/natio...1403-1508r.htm
(copied from the other thread)
Barry60, sevenforeseven, et al.
I'm not sure why you and others call it "absolute rubbish" "complete rubbish" etc,
Several journalists have followed up on the story. They all seem to agree on the basic facts:
1) a group of 14 arab men were traveling together on the flight.
2) on the flight they behaved in a suspicious manner.
3) FBI, LA police and other security services met the plane on arrival and interviewed the men.
Presumably because they were informed by the captain of the flight which indicates that cabin crew and the captain thought the behaviour was suspicious enough to warrant investigation.
4) the men were subsequently allowed to continue their journey.
So it seems likely the 14 Syrians are completely innocent.
The article is written in a sensationalist style but it is certainly not "complete rubbish".
Barry60, sevenforeseven, et al.
I'm not sure why you and others call it "absolute rubbish" "complete rubbish" etc,
Several journalists have followed up on the story. They all seem to agree on the basic facts:
1) a group of 14 arab men were traveling together on the flight.
2) on the flight they behaved in a suspicious manner.
3) FBI, LA police and other security services met the plane on arrival and interviewed the men.
Presumably because they were informed by the captain of the flight which indicates that cabin crew and the captain thought the behaviour was suspicious enough to warrant investigation.
4) the men were subsequently allowed to continue their journey.
So it seems likely the 14 Syrians are completely innocent.
The article is written in a sensationalist style but it is certainly not "complete rubbish".
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FBI, LA police and other security services met the plane on arrival and interviewed the men. Presumably because they were informed by the captain
Or maybe not. Notice the date of this item. Just coincidence, I'm sure
Or maybe not. Notice the date of this item. Just coincidence, I'm sure
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Copyright 2004 KFI NEWS. All rights reserved.
AIR MARSHALS SAY PASSENGER OVERREACTED
By ERIC LEONARD
KFI NEWS
LOS ANGELES | July 22, 2004 – Undercover federal air marshals on board a June 29 Northwest airlines flight from Detroit to LAX identified themselves after a passenger, “overreacted,” to a group of middle-eastern men on board, federal officials and sources have told KFI NEWS.
The passenger, later identified as Annie Jacobsen, was in danger of panicking other passengers and creating a larger problem on the plane, according to a source close to the secretive federal protective service.
Jacobsen, a self-described freelance writer, has published two stories about her experience at womenswallstreet.com, a business advice web site designed for women.
“The lady was overreacting,” said the source. “A flight attendant was told to tell the passenger to calm down; that there were air marshals on the plane.”
The middle eastern men were identified by federal agents as a group of touring musicians travelling to a concert date at a casino, said Air Marshals spokesman Dave Adams.
Jacobsen wrote she became alarmed when the men made frequent trips to the lavatory, repeatedly opened and closed the overhead luggage compartments, and appeared to be signaling each other.
“Initially it was brought to [the air marshals] attention by a passenger,” Adams said, adding the agents had been watching the men and chose to stay undercover.
Jacobsen and her husband had a number of conversations with the flight attendants and gestured towards the men several times, the source said.
“In concert with the flight crew, the decision was made to keep [the men] under surveillance since no terrorist or criminal acts were being perpetrated aboard the aircraft; they didn’t interfere with the flight crew,” Adams said.
The air marshals did, however, check the bathrooms after the middle-eastern men had spent time inside, Adams said.
FBI agents met the plane when it landed in Los Angeles and the men were questioned, and Los Angeles field office spokeswoman Cathy Viray said it’s significant the alarm on the flight came from a passenger.
“We have to take all calls seriously, but the passenger was worried, not the flight crew or the federal air marshals,” she said. “The complaint did not stem from the flight crew.”
Several people were questioned, she said, but no one was detained.
Jacobsen’s husband Kevin told KFI NEWS he approached a man he thought was an air marshal after the flight had landed.
“You made me nervous,” Kevin said the air marshal told him.
“I was freaking out,” Kevin replied.
“We don’t freak out in situations like this,” the air marshal responded.
Federal agents later verified the musicians’ story.
“We followed up with the casino,” Adams said. A supervisor verified they were playing a concert. A second federal law enforcement source said the concert itself was monitored by an agent.
“We also went to the hotel, determined they had checked into the hotel,” Adams said. Each of the men were checked through a series of databases and watch-lists with negative results, he said.
The source said the air marshals on the flight were partially concerned Jacobsen’s actions could have been an effort by terrorists or attackers to create a disturbance on the plane to force the agents to identify themselves.
Air marshals’ only tactical advantage on a flight is their anonymity, the source said, and Jacobsen could have put the entire flight in danger.
“They have to be very cognizant of their surroundings,” spokesman Adams confirmed, “to make sure it isn’t a ruse to try and pull them out of their cover.”
AIR MARSHALS SAY PASSENGER OVERREACTED
By ERIC LEONARD
KFI NEWS
LOS ANGELES | July 22, 2004 – Undercover federal air marshals on board a June 29 Northwest airlines flight from Detroit to LAX identified themselves after a passenger, “overreacted,” to a group of middle-eastern men on board, federal officials and sources have told KFI NEWS.
The passenger, later identified as Annie Jacobsen, was in danger of panicking other passengers and creating a larger problem on the plane, according to a source close to the secretive federal protective service.
Jacobsen, a self-described freelance writer, has published two stories about her experience at womenswallstreet.com, a business advice web site designed for women.
“The lady was overreacting,” said the source. “A flight attendant was told to tell the passenger to calm down; that there were air marshals on the plane.”
The middle eastern men were identified by federal agents as a group of touring musicians travelling to a concert date at a casino, said Air Marshals spokesman Dave Adams.
Jacobsen wrote she became alarmed when the men made frequent trips to the lavatory, repeatedly opened and closed the overhead luggage compartments, and appeared to be signaling each other.
“Initially it was brought to [the air marshals] attention by a passenger,” Adams said, adding the agents had been watching the men and chose to stay undercover.
Jacobsen and her husband had a number of conversations with the flight attendants and gestured towards the men several times, the source said.
“In concert with the flight crew, the decision was made to keep [the men] under surveillance since no terrorist or criminal acts were being perpetrated aboard the aircraft; they didn’t interfere with the flight crew,” Adams said.
The air marshals did, however, check the bathrooms after the middle-eastern men had spent time inside, Adams said.
FBI agents met the plane when it landed in Los Angeles and the men were questioned, and Los Angeles field office spokeswoman Cathy Viray said it’s significant the alarm on the flight came from a passenger.
“We have to take all calls seriously, but the passenger was worried, not the flight crew or the federal air marshals,” she said. “The complaint did not stem from the flight crew.”
Several people were questioned, she said, but no one was detained.
Jacobsen’s husband Kevin told KFI NEWS he approached a man he thought was an air marshal after the flight had landed.
“You made me nervous,” Kevin said the air marshal told him.
“I was freaking out,” Kevin replied.
“We don’t freak out in situations like this,” the air marshal responded.
Federal agents later verified the musicians’ story.
“We followed up with the casino,” Adams said. A supervisor verified they were playing a concert. A second federal law enforcement source said the concert itself was monitored by an agent.
“We also went to the hotel, determined they had checked into the hotel,” Adams said. Each of the men were checked through a series of databases and watch-lists with negative results, he said.
The source said the air marshals on the flight were partially concerned Jacobsen’s actions could have been an effort by terrorists or attackers to create a disturbance on the plane to force the agents to identify themselves.
Air marshals’ only tactical advantage on a flight is their anonymity, the source said, and Jacobsen could have put the entire flight in danger.
“They have to be very cognizant of their surroundings,” spokesman Adams confirmed, “to make sure it isn’t a ruse to try and pull them out of their cover.”
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Etrang:
It is complete rubbish. And not just garden-variety rubbish: flat-out, clear-as-day, racist, paranoid, non-sensical, devoid-of-logic-and-reason rubbish.
Someone's McDonald's bag "mysteriously" emptying and then vanishing? I know it's a stretch to believe that someone would eat the whole thing and then throw away the bag, but I'm told it happens.
Northwest has a horrible rep when it comes to letting people who bought tickets together sit together. Boarding as a group, travelling as a group and then sitting apart is not unusual and happens all the time, every day.
If I was smiled at, particularly by some idiot who presumed that brown skin=terrorist, I wouldn't smile back either, especially not during a four-hour Northwest flight. That isn't suspicious.
And, as mentioned, Ann Coulter is another naive, borderline racist who is partly responsible for much of the knee-jerk race-based paranoia that divides and segregates people.
Unadulterated rubbish, but it feels good to have a Saturday morning rant.
It is complete rubbish. And not just garden-variety rubbish: flat-out, clear-as-day, racist, paranoid, non-sensical, devoid-of-logic-and-reason rubbish.
Someone's McDonald's bag "mysteriously" emptying and then vanishing? I know it's a stretch to believe that someone would eat the whole thing and then throw away the bag, but I'm told it happens.
Northwest has a horrible rep when it comes to letting people who bought tickets together sit together. Boarding as a group, travelling as a group and then sitting apart is not unusual and happens all the time, every day.
If I was smiled at, particularly by some idiot who presumed that brown skin=terrorist, I wouldn't smile back either, especially not during a four-hour Northwest flight. That isn't suspicious.
And, as mentioned, Ann Coulter is another naive, borderline racist who is partly responsible for much of the knee-jerk race-based paranoia that divides and segregates people.
Unadulterated rubbish, but it feels good to have a Saturday morning rant.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Well, the "rubbish" view has convinced snopes.com - which is, for the time being, good enough for me. 
Sly Lowlife Freight
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'It just shows how your innate biases colour your perception of events. Does anyone remember the Grauniad advert showing the black youth running at a man holding a briefcase, viewed from different angles? Some showed it looking like an assault or mugging, the final view showed he was saving his life.'
The youth in that ad was a white skinhead - innate biases?????
The youth in that ad was a white skinhead - innate biases?????
I think there were several different ads in that series. One I remember was a white skinhead running after, what turned out to be, a runaway pram.
This is what Snopes have to say:
"although the events Ms. Jacobsen claims to have witnessed on her flight did occur, her interpretation of them was erroneous"
This is what Snopes have to say:
"although the events Ms. Jacobsen claims to have witnessed on her flight did occur, her interpretation of them was erroneous"
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I fully appologise, but the advert was many years ago. I have just as many innate biases as the next person, and this was totally unconscious. However, the point is still valid.
Quote...'It just shows how your innate biases colour your perception of events. Does anyone remember the Grauniad advert showing the black youth running at a man holding a briefcase, viewed from different angles? Some showed it looking like an assault or mugging, the final view showed he was saving his life.'
The youth in that ad was a white skinhead - innate biases?????...unquote
Quote...'It just shows how your innate biases colour your perception of events. Does anyone remember the Grauniad advert showing the black youth running at a man holding a briefcase, viewed from different angles? Some showed it looking like an assault or mugging, the final view showed he was saving his life.'
The youth in that ad was a white skinhead - innate biases?????...unquote
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Update from Fed Air Marshal Service
Update from the MSP Star-Tribune yesterday...
Quoting, in part...
Air marshals dispute key assertion in Flight 327 account
*****
Did, as a passenger reported, seven of the 13 Syrian musicians whose behavior was terrifying some passengers actually stand up in unison and take strategic positions by the lavatories and the exit door during final approach to Los Angeles, an act that would have been a frighteningly overt and unambiguous provocation?
They did not, according to the Federal Air Marshal Service, which had previously left unchallenged assertions by Annie Jacobsen, a freelance writer on the flight, that they did.
"What happened was, they were already standing up in the aisle before the seat belt signs became illuminated," said Dave Adams, a spokesman for the agency, which represents air marshals who travel undercover on airplanes.
"The flight attendants asked them to sit down, and the men respected the orders and sat in their seats. Two gentlemen asked why they had to, and a flight attendant told them 'Because, so please take your seats.' And they obeyed," he said.
The new information came from "subsequent interviews of flight attendants on this matter by our personnel," he added.
So there was absolutely no sudden move by the men on final approach?
"None," Adams said.
*****
http://www.startribune.com/stories/535/4915336.html
Dave
Quoting, in part...
Air marshals dispute key assertion in Flight 327 account
*****
Did, as a passenger reported, seven of the 13 Syrian musicians whose behavior was terrifying some passengers actually stand up in unison and take strategic positions by the lavatories and the exit door during final approach to Los Angeles, an act that would have been a frighteningly overt and unambiguous provocation?
They did not, according to the Federal Air Marshal Service, which had previously left unchallenged assertions by Annie Jacobsen, a freelance writer on the flight, that they did.
"What happened was, they were already standing up in the aisle before the seat belt signs became illuminated," said Dave Adams, a spokesman for the agency, which represents air marshals who travel undercover on airplanes.
"The flight attendants asked them to sit down, and the men respected the orders and sat in their seats. Two gentlemen asked why they had to, and a flight attendant told them 'Because, so please take your seats.' And they obeyed," he said.
The new information came from "subsequent interviews of flight attendants on this matter by our personnel," he added.
So there was absolutely no sudden move by the men on final approach?
"None," Adams said.
*****
http://www.startribune.com/stories/535/4915336.html
Dave
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"I grabbed my son, I held my husband's hand and, despite the fact that I am not a particularly religious person, I prayed. The last man came out of the bathroom, and as he passed the man in the yellow shirt he ran his forefinger across his neck and mouthed the word "No." .......
isn't it kind of funny that after all the shady conversations at the back of the plane that the 'terrorist' decided to suddenly start speaking English instead of Arabic!!
This story reads like a child's school essay!
"The Day I Was Kidnapped!" by Me aged 11.
isn't it kind of funny that after all the shady conversations at the back of the plane that the 'terrorist' decided to suddenly start speaking English instead of Arabic!!
This story reads like a child's school essay!
"The Day I Was Kidnapped!" by Me aged 11.
