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Ryanair stop 89 year old travelling to Wedding

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Ryanair stop 89 year old travelling to Wedding

Old 22nd Jun 2004, 09:38
  #1 (permalink)  
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Ryanair stop 89 year old travelling to Wedding

In Stansted Life there is a story about an 89 year old who was denied boarding from a RYR flight because she didn't have a passport or photo-licence. She turned up at check-in with a birth certificate and photo bus pass. The reason for the trip was to go to her great-niece's wedding.

Yes, I know that it is very clear on the RYR website what is required, but the response from them was 'the terms and conditions are there in the interests of security and safety of all our passengers and crew'. From an 89 year old!

Unless there is more to this than is being reported, RYR seem to be pretty heartless. Shame on them.
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Old 22nd Jun 2004, 09:50
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Well I'm sorry but much as I don't like FR, I have to agree with them in this case. It would be like one rule for one and one for another. Rules are rules no matter what age. How can you be certain that it was not a very clever disguise? It does happen as you have seen before. Sorry
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Old 22nd Jun 2004, 09:53
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No problem. MOL has her money so why go out of his way to actually carry her?

Provided there are enough weasel words in the very small print, he is covered.

Really warms your heart, doesn't he!
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Old 22nd Jun 2004, 10:10
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jettesen,

So what if it was a 'clever disguise'. Nowadays nobody can get on with anything more dangerous than a well-cooked strand of spaghetti anyway, and the cockpit doors are sealed.

This is not 'security', it's jobsworth. If the same rules need to apply to everyone, then change them - not everyone has a passport or photo driving license.

Also, you state that 'it does happen as you have seen before'. Name me an ocassion where someone has made themselves up to look 89 years old and forged (a) a birth certificate and (b) a bus pass I will agree that RYR were not being ar$es in denying her boarding.
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Old 22nd Jun 2004, 10:13
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Hi all,

The problem in this case, or even in all cases involving id, might be the fact that the lady would have been denied entry to the country she was flying to.
Correct me if i'm wrong but as far as I understood any airline has to pay a penalty if such a thing happens.
Although i feel sorry for the lady, I think there is no other option.

Lorel.
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Old 22nd Jun 2004, 10:18
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Maybe she went back home and baked a caked then posted it to MOL to say "thanks for f****g up my day".

I wonder how this lady booked her flight. I doubt very much it was done on the internet, unless her niece did it, so I assume via the phone. In which case, did the res agent clearly point out what is required as forms of ID to travel
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Old 22nd Jun 2004, 10:54
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Rules are rules. Otherwise, what's the point?
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Old 22nd Jun 2004, 11:14
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Rules are Rules unless they are pointless . Where common sense says do something else, then thats what a service business should do. In this case simple humanity says that someone should have simply smiled and let her board, with a word of advice about next time. Presumably it was a domestic flight or she would have had a passport anyway, and she wouldnt have had to produce an ID to go by train.
When we let non essential,- as opposed to essential,- rules stop us exercising common sense and humanity we are brain dead.
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Old 22nd Jun 2004, 12:12
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Bus Pass could have been out of date and refused concessionary travel ! you never know.
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Old 22nd Jun 2004, 12:25
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Not all airlines seem to require proof of identity when you check in.

My wife and I recently flew from the UK to the Channel Islands and back and took our passports as we expected to be asked for proof of identity at check-in. We weren't on either journey.
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Old 22nd Jun 2004, 12:28
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Well - I have to agree with Ryanair on this. Yes it seems heartless, and I am sure she was a nice, defenceless old lady, whose heart was broken by Ryanair - but where do you draw the line? If they made an exception for an 89 year old, because she was clearly so harmless, would anyone care to tell me at what point in life you become harmless? 80? 70? 59?

The airline I work for has turned away pax in the past who have had either no ID at all (including no passports for international services), and on one memorable occasion, a pax who turned up with a paper driving license and a picture of himself on the beach in Spain - which together he thought counted as "Government Issued Photo ID".

Bending rules leads to major problems. Case in point - someone checks in 29 minutes before take off and is allowed to - next time, it is minus 20 then minus 10....

TA
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Old 22nd Jun 2004, 12:36
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My wife runs a business. About a month ago, an 81 year old man was arrested for shoplifting in her store. He stole over 4000 of goods. Why should any one over a certain age be deamed 'sweet and innocent'? Just because this incident with FR involved an 84 year old woman, what is to say she is not who she says she is. ? They have been around a lot longer than us, and have a lot more ideas up there sleaves.

I'm sure at some point in her life, she has had a passport. Photo drivers licences are renewed every 10 years, and they have been out ofr about 10 years now, so she should have one by now if she drives

There is no excuse.
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Old 22nd Jun 2004, 13:55
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I'm sure at some point in her life, she has had a passport.
This lady is from a generation in which many people (especially women) have never driven and many have never been abroad.I have an aunt who is 86 who is in this position, and if she wished to take an internal Ryanair flight she would have to apply for a passport.

She would certainly not apply for a provisional driving licence and the UK does not issue ID cards.

I have checked Ryanair's website and it confirms the only acceptacle ids are as follows:

* A valid passport

* A valid National Identity Card issued by a European Economic Area (EEA) country (Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Ireland, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Malta, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, UK (plus Switzerland). Please note that not all EEA countries issue National Identity Cards.

* A valid driving licence with photo (only acceptable on UK domestic flights and UK-Republic of Ireland-UK routes).

easyJet on the other hand are far more flexible in what they will accept. Their website says the following are acceptable ids on domestic flights.

A valid passport - an expired passport can be used up to a maximum of two years after expiry
Valid photographic EU or Swiss national identity card
Valid photographic driving licence
Valid armed forces identity card
Valid police warrant card/badge
Valid airport employees security identity pass
A child on parent' s passport is an acceptable form of ID
CitizenCard
Valid photographic firearm certificate
Valid Government-issued identity card
SMART card
Electoral identity card
Acceptable form of non-photographic ID:
Pension Book

So my elderly aunt could quite happily fly with easy within the UK (with her pension book) but not with Ryan.

Why should one airline be more accommodating than a rival? Perhaps some rules are unnecessarily stringent and slavishly adhered to.
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Old 22nd Jun 2004, 14:52
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Reminds me that at the same airport the gate agent made a mumbled PA that all pax must present their photo-id to him OPEN at the PHOTO PAGE. Presumably a standard announcement.

And we then all saw the edifying scene of this young, fit, twenty-something gate agent giving a bollocking to an old lady with arthritic hands because she had not presented the passport to him fully opened.

Those of you saying "well, rules are rules", be proud of yourselves.
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Old 22nd Jun 2004, 16:32
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WHBM

I am sorry that you fail to see the difference between the arrogant and unsympathetic way that one ramp agent treated a passenger, and the way that rules must be kept.

There are very good reasons why security checks must be made in this sad and dark world, and also very good reasons why all pax should be treated equally. Can you not appreciate that in your example, the rules could have been complied with, politely, sympathetically and kindly - but still COMPLIED with?

TA
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Old 22nd Jun 2004, 16:53
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Remember,We are talking about the same airline that refused passage to a Soldier when he showed his military I.D. card because it was not on their "Approved" list!
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Old 22nd Jun 2004, 17:35
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CONFUSED BY THE MINOR DETAILS...WAS SHE 89..86..0R..84?
WHO SAYS YOU DON'T GET ANY YOUNGER THESE DAYS!
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Old 22nd Jun 2004, 17:39
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FR don't accept student ID any longer. Seemingly, they'll improve the rules if they can - good on them.

Matkat - If it's not on the list, it's not accepted - simple.

WHBM - a reprehensible attitude from the gate agent, certainly. But some posters would allow this very person to make exceptions to the ID policy. (Incidentally, I assume you complained about the agent - how was it handled?)

If the rules aren't good enough, lives are endangered. If the rules aren't applied properly, lives are endangered. Do we really want to take chances?
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Old 22nd Jun 2004, 18:20
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Why are Ryanair so restrictive though in what they will accept as id? Many people do not have d/licences, passports or national id cards - the latter is not available in the UK anyway.

easyJet will accept a lot more documents as id which makes life easier for the passenger, and does it really compromise security that much? If Ryan think some of the documents that easy will accept but they won't are easier to get hold of illegally or even forge then where is the evidence?

Is a police warrant card or an armed forces id card (both of which easyJet accept) really simpler to steal, forge or otherwise illegally obtain than a passport or driving licence? I don't think so.

And, as I said earlier, when my wife and I flew to and from Guernsey with another airline we were asked for no identification whatsoever.

No wonder passengers become confused and think that at times some airlines make rules for the sake of it.
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Old 22nd Jun 2004, 18:36
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Maybe FR only allow a limited number of ID types because it'd become too confusing otherwise for the check-in agent.

In the US I think the rule is 'government-issued photo ID' so military/police etc. IDs would be acceptable.

I wonder if their own staff IDs are accepted? (Note I didn't say 'acceptable').

As for the driver's licence allowed on domestic flights - as there is no further limitation, one assumes a photo driver's licence in, say, Arabic or Korean would be acceptable? Does the check-in agent actually have to be able to read and understand the name?

Maybe we need to think about what the point of the exercise is and make appropriate rules, appropriately.
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