travelling with kids, IATA rules
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travelling with kids, IATA rules
I have been travelling a lot with our two younsters aged 2 and 5, the problem is trying to get seats together, sometimes they get preassigned, sometimes an email the day before works but with Aer Lingus I am now getting told that no prearranged seating is possible.
This became a real problem on Dec 26th last when we arrived in plenty of time for a flight to find that only single seats were available and we may not be able to board due to IATA rules!
It all got sorted with a lot of extra work at the boarding gate and by the cabin crew and also much seat shuffling onboard. Result a lot of extra stress for everyone involved.
Surely in view of the very sensible requirement that minors sit next to parents there should be some prearrangement to ensure that the group sits together, cant be a problem especially where the bookings are made at the same time and the children are identified as minors?
This has got to be easier than possibly denying boarding or messing about onboard.
Can anyone give me an idea of the rules around this area?
It is becoming a major pain and I suspect I am not getting the full story from, in particular, Aer Lingus. Most of our flights are DUB - BCN and I think the problem is that on every flight there are large school groups who seem to have no problem getting half the plane cordoned off.
This became a real problem on Dec 26th last when we arrived in plenty of time for a flight to find that only single seats were available and we may not be able to board due to IATA rules!
It all got sorted with a lot of extra work at the boarding gate and by the cabin crew and also much seat shuffling onboard. Result a lot of extra stress for everyone involved.
Surely in view of the very sensible requirement that minors sit next to parents there should be some prearrangement to ensure that the group sits together, cant be a problem especially where the bookings are made at the same time and the children are identified as minors?
This has got to be easier than possibly denying boarding or messing about onboard.
Can anyone give me an idea of the rules around this area?
It is becoming a major pain and I suspect I am not getting the full story from, in particular, Aer Lingus. Most of our flights are DUB - BCN and I think the problem is that on every flight there are large school groups who seem to have no problem getting half the plane cordoned off.
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Although there are no hard and fast "rules" in this area, it is normal to seat small children with their parents providing you arrive in plenty of time for check-in. (ie If check-in is advertised as being up to 60 minutes before departure, if you have special requirements (eg seating together requests, excess baggage to negotiate, wheelchair assistance etc) you should really aim to be there at least 90 minutes before departure).
Although you say you arrived at check-in in plenty of time, the Boarding Pass will bear a "Sequence Number" showing the order in which passengers checked in. Therrefore, regardless of what time you arrived at the airport, if the other 150 pax on your flight checked in before you, there's not a lot can be done I'm afraid. (It's simply not fair on the other passengers to start juggling their seats around just because you couldn't be bothered to get to the airport early enough!) Most airlines do not pre-assign seats on Short Haul flights, although we will do our best to get you together if you play ball with us and arrive in plenty of time for your flight!
Speaking from BA's point of view, since "On-Line" check in was opened up, seating families together at check-in has become more and more difficult. If www.aerlingus.com has "On-Line" check in, why not give it a try next time you fly?
Although you say you arrived at check-in in plenty of time, the Boarding Pass will bear a "Sequence Number" showing the order in which passengers checked in. Therrefore, regardless of what time you arrived at the airport, if the other 150 pax on your flight checked in before you, there's not a lot can be done I'm afraid. (It's simply not fair on the other passengers to start juggling their seats around just because you couldn't be bothered to get to the airport early enough!) Most airlines do not pre-assign seats on Short Haul flights, although we will do our best to get you together if you play ball with us and arrive in plenty of time for your flight!
Speaking from BA's point of view, since "On-Line" check in was opened up, seating families together at check-in has become more and more difficult. If www.aerlingus.com has "On-Line" check in, why not give it a try next time you fly?
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I have a great deal of sympathy with you on this issue triplerotor. Of course parents and their children should be seated together. Most airlines including BA seem reasonably adept at achieveing this requirement within their booking and allocation systems. Parents are responsible for the safety of their children for example in the event of a decompression adults should don their own mask then assist their children with theirs, that wouldn't be too easy if they are separated by 16 rows. Indeed the carriers legal position might be seriously jeopardised by its failure to thus ensure the safety of minor passengers by placing them in this position.
It is not rocket science to resolve most of these problems when they do arise even if does take a bit of onboard juggling. On the flights I operate, I do insist that any such problems ( although it has to be said they arise infrequently) are adequately sorted out before the aircraft departs. Clearly there are occaisions when families with young children are split up at the check in, however the problem is often resolved at the gate and should always be resolved before departure. As always a bit of common sense will go a long way.
It is not rocket science to resolve most of these problems when they do arise even if does take a bit of onboard juggling. On the flights I operate, I do insist that any such problems ( although it has to be said they arise infrequently) are adequately sorted out before the aircraft departs. Clearly there are occaisions when families with young children are split up at the check in, however the problem is often resolved at the gate and should always be resolved before departure. As always a bit of common sense will go a long way.
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travelling with kids
It is a great idea to expect the crew to jiggle about the other passengers, but what happens when the aircraft is full off families, in the middle of the summer!!!!!!
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well families come in all varieties. Even in summer the plane is not full of parents and two minor children. I don't think triplerotor was really complaining about a 15 year old son or daughter being separated but was talking about very young and necessarily dependant children. It may be that some parents are happy to delegate the safety and security of their children to another responsible adult who is themselves happy to accept the responsibility however that should not be assumed. It is interesting to note that many airlines will not allow a young child to travel unaccompanied even if another adult is prepared to assume a temporary guardian role ( and perhaps rightly so), but seem to have fewer qualms about separating a child onboard !
As already stated this is a problem that does arise but need not cause insurmountable difficulties. I do believe that a high degree of effort goes into ensuring parents and young children are seated together and the problem only arises in a few cases. However when it does arise it should be resolved.
As already stated this is a problem that does arise but need not cause insurmountable difficulties. I do believe that a high degree of effort goes into ensuring parents and young children are seated together and the problem only arises in a few cases. However when it does arise it should be resolved.
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Interesting one - I can suddenly see a lot more merit to the 'rugby scrum' boarding procedure (i.e. by sequence number). It's far from perfect but parents with small chil'un are invited to board with the first wave; problem solved.
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An interesting question - I had always assumed the seats were pre-assigned as we've never had a problem in perhaps 150 flights with a child between 2 and 7. We now have a second child though, so I suspect we're now more likely to be split up.
On a slightly different but related topic, I was told last year on an internal flight in Greece, that children were not allowed to occupy the aise seats (3-3 seating layout on a very full 737). This required some moving about of pax before we could depart as my 7 year old and I had been allocated C and D - across the aisle from each other. Never heard of this rule before - I suspect it was a local one - i.e local to that particular c/c member
any thoughts?
On a slightly different but related topic, I was told last year on an internal flight in Greece, that children were not allowed to occupy the aise seats (3-3 seating layout on a very full 737). This required some moving about of pax before we could depart as my 7 year old and I had been allocated C and D - across the aisle from each other. Never heard of this rule before - I suspect it was a local one - i.e local to that particular c/c member
any thoughts?
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This is the problem with new technology.
Many airlines have 80% or more of their economy seating avaialable for pre selection upto one year advance in travel agency reservation computers. Then comes the fact that there are connecting flights some of which would originate about 16 to 20 hours before the flight departure of a conencting flight. Not to forget the Internet check in
This is where the trouble starts!
Many airlines have 80% or more of their economy seating avaialable for pre selection upto one year advance in travel agency reservation computers. Then comes the fact that there are connecting flights some of which would originate about 16 to 20 hours before the flight departure of a conencting flight. Not to forget the Internet check in
This is where the trouble starts!
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Thanks for all the interesting replies, it seems like there are no specific rules to cover this area.
Aer Lingus have told me that pre-reserved seating is a courtesy and cannot be guaranteed. I guess this phrasing is to cover the fact that they do prereserve for all sorts of reasons, connecting flights etc but don't want to have to guarantee that service to everyone, I can understand this especially in relation to the falling seat prices and staff cuts. But I feel that in the case of minors there is a safety issue and the system should catch it (minors are identified at time of booking on Aer Lingus system).
TemporaryCrepello is definitely on to something, the problem simply doesn't arise with Ryanair et al, you get boarded first sit together - no problem for anybody.
Still think that letting pax preassign seats online is the answer a la the BA system. Failing that could the passenger listing be searched automatically as the flight opens and all pax with accompanying minors get automatically shoved down the back together, that would probably make the whole flight happier!
Aer Lingus have told me that pre-reserved seating is a courtesy and cannot be guaranteed. I guess this phrasing is to cover the fact that they do prereserve for all sorts of reasons, connecting flights etc but don't want to have to guarantee that service to everyone, I can understand this especially in relation to the falling seat prices and staff cuts. But I feel that in the case of minors there is a safety issue and the system should catch it (minors are identified at time of booking on Aer Lingus system).
TemporaryCrepello is definitely on to something, the problem simply doesn't arise with Ryanair et al, you get boarded first sit together - no problem for anybody.
Still think that letting pax preassign seats online is the answer a la the BA system. Failing that could the passenger listing be searched automatically as the flight opens and all pax with accompanying minors get automatically shoved down the back together, that would probably make the whole flight happier!
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I know the problem well 
- one of five and the other just over one - at least they can sit on a lap with the extended belt.
EasyJet have a policy that families can board first in the scramble for unassigned seats. BA have always accomodated us as a group - but then I always arrive at the checkin desk a couple of hours early.
- one of five and the other just over one - at least they can sit on a lap with the extended belt.EasyJet have a policy that families can board first in the scramble for unassigned seats. BA have always accomodated us as a group - but then I always arrive at the checkin desk a couple of hours early.
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Airlines generally do a reasonable job but I have always felt that most airlines would be happier if kids stay away.
My 2 kids are now 7 and 8 but they have flown extensively with me from 2 months old. Indeed, the very first flight to Tampa resulted in my 2 month old being 13 rows behind. I turned up 3 hours early and eventually they stuck all four of us in club.
Virgin had interesting policies in that they used their own Child seat which had to be used for take off and landing, but it was ok to use our own car type seat in between.
KLM are a nightmare and couldn't believe our kids were travelling business class. In the end I ended up ignoring the CSD and was prepared to get very bloody minded about things.
BA were usually helpful but have always had a problem of moving people around. You get pre-assigned seats and find that you have other seats when you get to the airport.
Regarding the issue of the kids in the aisle seats. Had the same problem with BA on their 757's. As I recall, due to the way BA had their seats in biz class, the oxygen masks on one side were not long enough to reach down to a minor so you had to sit (I think) on the left which I assuem was directly underneath and so just sufficient.
Finally, ALWAYS buy a seat for your kids. I get most upset when I see families thinking they can keep an under 2 on their lap for the entire flight just to save a small sum of cash. It is not safe to do this and if anyone had ever seen what happens to little ones in the event of a crash/turbulence then there would be no question. Why the practise is still allowed is beyond me.
My 2 kids are now 7 and 8 but they have flown extensively with me from 2 months old. Indeed, the very first flight to Tampa resulted in my 2 month old being 13 rows behind. I turned up 3 hours early and eventually they stuck all four of us in club.
Virgin had interesting policies in that they used their own Child seat which had to be used for take off and landing, but it was ok to use our own car type seat in between.
KLM are a nightmare and couldn't believe our kids were travelling business class. In the end I ended up ignoring the CSD and was prepared to get very bloody minded about things.
BA were usually helpful but have always had a problem of moving people around. You get pre-assigned seats and find that you have other seats when you get to the airport.
Regarding the issue of the kids in the aisle seats. Had the same problem with BA on their 757's. As I recall, due to the way BA had their seats in biz class, the oxygen masks on one side were not long enough to reach down to a minor so you had to sit (I think) on the left which I assuem was directly underneath and so just sufficient.
Finally, ALWAYS buy a seat for your kids. I get most upset when I see families thinking they can keep an under 2 on their lap for the entire flight just to save a small sum of cash. It is not safe to do this and if anyone had ever seen what happens to little ones in the event of a crash/turbulence then there would be no question. Why the practise is still allowed is beyond me.
