Barred from VS flt for sarcastic remark...2 sides to every story?
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The Skipper was abso-bloody-lutely correct and I congratulate him for having the backbone to do what he did. He removed an obvious troublemaker from his flight.
Better off than on.
Better Safe than Sorry.
Well done sir!
Better off than on.
Better Safe than Sorry.
Well done sir!
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"The Skipper was abso-bloody-lutely correct and I congratulate him for having the backbone to do what he did. He removed an obvious troublemaker from his flight.
Better off than on.
Better Safe than Sorry."
Oh yeah...lets see who gets a bollicking and who gets a lifetime Upper Class upgrade and two weeks in Necca
Better off than on.
Better Safe than Sorry."
Oh yeah...lets see who gets a bollicking and who gets a lifetime Upper Class upgrade and two weeks in Necca
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I,like everyone else on this forum was not there at the time.The skipper in question was.
Now ,I don't know this guy or his history or personality but I will bet a wad of cash on the following..This was probably the first time he had done anything like this.At best he may have had one or two vaguely similar scenarios in his entire working life.He has probably flown tens of thousands of passengers around and "refused" a mere handful.To use a horrible yank expression,"do the math!"
He was obviously an experienced pilot who was trusted with Sir Dickies big shiny jets and the lives of his little pink/yellow/brown/passengers.(long- haul commands being noticably absent in any lucky-bags I've ever looked in)
When he made this decision he must have been aware of the possible flak both he and the company would recieve and I doubt he took it lightly or in a "fit of pique"
He exercised HIS authority to refuse carriage.He made a COMMAND decision(a difficult one)based on his experience,knowledge and judgement of the situation at the time.I don't know, but I would expect he discussed his course of action with the F/O in the spirit of good CRM.
I may not have made the same decision but I wasn't there.Shame on all you so called "pro's" out there who would deny any skipper his right to exercise his judgement and utilise this basic and important facet of command authority.
Now ,I don't know this guy or his history or personality but I will bet a wad of cash on the following..This was probably the first time he had done anything like this.At best he may have had one or two vaguely similar scenarios in his entire working life.He has probably flown tens of thousands of passengers around and "refused" a mere handful.To use a horrible yank expression,"do the math!"
He was obviously an experienced pilot who was trusted with Sir Dickies big shiny jets and the lives of his little pink/yellow/brown/passengers.(long- haul commands being noticably absent in any lucky-bags I've ever looked in)
When he made this decision he must have been aware of the possible flak both he and the company would recieve and I doubt he took it lightly or in a "fit of pique"
He exercised HIS authority to refuse carriage.He made a COMMAND decision(a difficult one)based on his experience,knowledge and judgement of the situation at the time.I don't know, but I would expect he discussed his course of action with the F/O in the spirit of good CRM.
I may not have made the same decision but I wasn't there.Shame on all you so called "pro's" out there who would deny any skipper his right to exercise his judgement and utilise this basic and important facet of command authority.
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Here here, Captain Cook! I suspect more to this than meets the eye.
However, such is the ill-mannered character of this wretch that I think he / she should have perhaps been made to swim back to the UK.
And to think that they write for one of the finest News papers in the world! Stop the rubbish!
However, such is the ill-mannered character of this wretch that I think he / she should have perhaps been made to swim back to the UK.
And to think that they write for one of the finest News papers in the world! Stop the rubbish!
Unfortunately this seems to be typical of the kind of thing goiung on at the moment.
Technically the capstain may be allowed so to do. He may have been having a bad day, late at the gate, stressed. We all like to take out our frustrations at someone lower down the pecking order, and just for a moment he did. It is a pity he did not have the grace or time to stick out his hand and say how terribly sorry he was to have been late but........ Embarrassing someone is far more effective than ending up paying them.
Passengers too have their frustrations and maybe a snide or OTT comment is just an outlet.
Frankly, as a disinterested non observer, I would say you'd have to make a really serious remark or a direct threat to be considered a danger to plane or passengers.
What is far more important to me is the whole way this is going. Just look at people lining up at airports, we are becoming a cowed, timid population, scared of speaking out of turn. We no longer have the respecteful but self respecting attitude toward people doing a necessary job but we appear as prisoners is some awful Russian Gulag drama, resentful of authority but feasrful of being picked on.
I am dreadfully afraid this episode is a symptom of our new world. The terrorists are winning, not becuase they are right but because in the end we will become just an as authoritarian state as they wish, only the pigs will have a different nomenclature.
Technically the capstain may be allowed so to do. He may have been having a bad day, late at the gate, stressed. We all like to take out our frustrations at someone lower down the pecking order, and just for a moment he did. It is a pity he did not have the grace or time to stick out his hand and say how terribly sorry he was to have been late but........ Embarrassing someone is far more effective than ending up paying them.
Passengers too have their frustrations and maybe a snide or OTT comment is just an outlet.
Frankly, as a disinterested non observer, I would say you'd have to make a really serious remark or a direct threat to be considered a danger to plane or passengers.
What is far more important to me is the whole way this is going. Just look at people lining up at airports, we are becoming a cowed, timid population, scared of speaking out of turn. We no longer have the respecteful but self respecting attitude toward people doing a necessary job but we appear as prisoners is some awful Russian Gulag drama, resentful of authority but feasrful of being picked on.
I am dreadfully afraid this episode is a symptom of our new world. The terrorists are winning, not becuase they are right but because in the end we will become just an as authoritarian state as they wish, only the pigs will have a different nomenclature.
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I don't think it's about being a threat the the aircraft or pax, but if this guy has made the crew feel s*** before operating a long haul flight, then it's not really helpful.
Captain Cook was protecting his crew and the experience that other pax would have on board the aircraft. If he felt that the crew would feel uncomfortable serving someone who had behaved badly toward them, then it was the right decision to make. In the interest of good CRM and all that - BOTH sides of the cabin door.
Captain Cook was protecting his crew and the experience that other pax would have on board the aircraft. If he felt that the crew would feel uncomfortable serving someone who had behaved badly toward them, then it was the right decision to make. In the interest of good CRM and all that - BOTH sides of the cabin door.
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Just a thought
So the captain was in the right?
So the customer was in the right???
Now I can see that the Captain might be a bit peeved about being mocked in front of the rest of the passengers, but this is a customer service industry - not a private flying club.
Would it not been better customer service for the Captain to have a quiet word with the disgruntled PAX, explain the reasons for the delay and generally pour oil on troubled waters. If all Captains went around banning disgruntled passengers from flying then there would be an awful lot of empty aircraft flying around.
Virgin said Capt Crook "exercised his responsibilities correctly".
The company (Virgin) said an offer of some form of redress to Mr Warshaw was being prepared.
Now I can see that the Captain might be a bit peeved about being mocked in front of the rest of the passengers, but this is a customer service industry - not a private flying club.
Would it not been better customer service for the Captain to have a quiet word with the disgruntled PAX, explain the reasons for the delay and generally pour oil on troubled waters. If all Captains went around banning disgruntled passengers from flying then there would be an awful lot of empty aircraft flying around.
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Although not a flying business, we come into daily face-to-face contact with the general public. 99% of them are courteous and polite, as are ALL my staff. When I receive a complaint, I immediately send a holding reply and then investigate. If we are at fault I say so and apologise. If I find that the customer was rude or aggressive I make the point that such behaviour is unacceptable and invite the individual to apologise to the staff member concerned. It's called Customer Relations Management and HR management.
If you treat your staff and customers fairly then you are more likely to have a successful business, otherwise you will drive them away. Failure to communicate would seem to have been a major factor in this case. Had the crew kept the check-in manager informed of their delay, that could have been relayed to the passengers, and perhaps their sarcastic attitude would have been quelled - not knowing what's happening to them often gets some people p
d off (not that I'm excusing lack of manners).
The whole affair was badly handled throughout; the Captain could have greeted the businessman and asked him if there was a problem. That would in effect have invited said pax to explain his behaviour and put him politely in his place - probably to his embarrassment. He wouldn't have repeated his mistake and given a lesson in good manners to the surrounding pax as well. As it stands, if VS pays him any compensation he will feel that he has won and will continue to be the arrogant a hole that he undoubtedly is.
By the way, can we please not use these pages to wage a pan-Atlantic slanging match?
If you treat your staff and customers fairly then you are more likely to have a successful business, otherwise you will drive them away. Failure to communicate would seem to have been a major factor in this case. Had the crew kept the check-in manager informed of their delay, that could have been relayed to the passengers, and perhaps their sarcastic attitude would have been quelled - not knowing what's happening to them often gets some people p
d off (not that I'm excusing lack of manners).The whole affair was badly handled throughout; the Captain could have greeted the businessman and asked him if there was a problem. That would in effect have invited said pax to explain his behaviour and put him politely in his place - probably to his embarrassment. He wouldn't have repeated his mistake and given a lesson in good manners to the surrounding pax as well. As it stands, if VS pays him any compensation he will feel that he has won and will continue to be the arrogant a
hole that he undoubtedly is.By the way, can we please not use these pages to wage a pan-Atlantic slanging match?
Some people really do think that rules apply only to others...
Checked-in at that dump known as LHR T2 on Friday. Long queues at the LH Economy Class check-ins, but Business and First pretty quiet. As I checked in at Business ( a perk if you have 'FTL' status, even if travelling Economy), I was aware of an altercation at the First Class check-in next to me. "I'm sorry, Sir, but we have you down as travelling Economy" said the polite staff member. "I don't care what goddam class I'm in, just check my goddam bags in. Period" came the reply from the loud, ill-mannered passenger. Of whose nationality there was little doubt...
Hope his bags (those things that look as though they're made out of old carpets) received a 'special' service from the handlers!!
Checked-in at that dump known as LHR T2 on Friday. Long queues at the LH Economy Class check-ins, but Business and First pretty quiet. As I checked in at Business ( a perk if you have 'FTL' status, even if travelling Economy), I was aware of an altercation at the First Class check-in next to me. "I'm sorry, Sir, but we have you down as travelling Economy" said the polite staff member. "I don't care what goddam class I'm in, just check my goddam bags in. Period" came the reply from the loud, ill-mannered passenger. Of whose nationality there was little doubt...
Hope his bags (those things that look as though they're made out of old carpets) received a 'special' service from the handlers!!
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I can't help compare the attitude of this captain to the attitude of a captain I flew with recently, although it was a much smaller aircraft. The airline in question allowed the carriage of animals in the cabin once they were well caged in, important since there was no cockpit door. As I was boarding there was a frantic search for tape going on by pilot & dispatchers, nosy me couldn't resist enquiring why, turned out they needed it to tape a dog into a cardboard box who kept escaping.
Eventually the pilot began to lose his patience & ordered the two biddies with the dog off the plane as we were running late. They refused, then the chief dog owner among them launched into a long tirade to the poor captain about how she had a stroke last year (miind you she did look a bit pale) & that the captain was about to give her another one. The captain ordered her off the aircraft again along with her friend. She refused to budge. Then she launched into a further tirade at the captain that the airline were going to have to pay for hotel rooms for them if they were put off the aircraft as they'd no where to stay. Infuriated at this stage I chipped in support of the captain that they should have come equipped with a suitable carrier for airtravel (incidentally which I have for my pet and the furthest globetrotting he's done is down to the local vet & back). Eventually the dispatcher persuaded the captain to wait as one last attempt was made to tape the dog into the box, yards of tape was put on & the captain, satisfied that the dog was adequately secured, took off. Five minutes later I glanced back & the (thankfully for us) docile dog was happily sitting on his owners knee.
Mind you a few words were said to the pair of them by me in the airline shuttle to our accommodation about how you should & should not speak to a captain of an aircraft. Just two contrasting incidents regarding two very different levels of provoking & how they we re handled. They just expressed to me their relieve that the captain hadn't turned back mid flight as they had half expected him too.
From the information here I feel the Virgin captain overreacted & may have bit the hand that feeds him. Never a good idea in business IMHO. Word of mouth is the best form of marketing, sounds to me like many of the pax on this flight will be mouthing off to anyone who cares to hear for a long time to come, to the detriment of a company who relies on its high paying pax to generate most of its profits. Lickarsing you may call it, I call it (& practice it) good business sense not to rub your customers up the wrong way.
Eventually the pilot began to lose his patience & ordered the two biddies with the dog off the plane as we were running late. They refused, then the chief dog owner among them launched into a long tirade to the poor captain about how she had a stroke last year (miind you she did look a bit pale) & that the captain was about to give her another one. The captain ordered her off the aircraft again along with her friend. She refused to budge. Then she launched into a further tirade at the captain that the airline were going to have to pay for hotel rooms for them if they were put off the aircraft as they'd no where to stay. Infuriated at this stage I chipped in support of the captain that they should have come equipped with a suitable carrier for airtravel (incidentally which I have for my pet and the furthest globetrotting he's done is down to the local vet & back). Eventually the dispatcher persuaded the captain to wait as one last attempt was made to tape the dog into the box, yards of tape was put on & the captain, satisfied that the dog was adequately secured, took off. Five minutes later I glanced back & the (thankfully for us) docile dog was happily sitting on his owners knee.
Mind you a few words were said to the pair of them by me in the airline shuttle to our accommodation about how you should & should not speak to a captain of an aircraft. Just two contrasting incidents regarding two very different levels of provoking & how they we re handled. They just expressed to me their relieve that the captain hadn't turned back mid flight as they had half expected him too.
From the information here I feel the Virgin captain overreacted & may have bit the hand that feeds him. Never a good idea in business IMHO. Word of mouth is the best form of marketing, sounds to me like many of the pax on this flight will be mouthing off to anyone who cares to hear for a long time to come, to the detriment of a company who relies on its high paying pax to generate most of its profits. Lickarsing you may call it, I call it (& practice it) good business sense not to rub your customers up the wrong way.
With reference to the disgusting comments of HS it is about time the likes of him realised that passengers are actually customers who believe it or not actually pay the wages! Probably difficult to comprehend for the likes of him but nevertheless true!!
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I reserve judgement on this thread 'cos I think everybody needs to lighten up a wee bit!
I can't help feeling, going back to the original story, that there are facts that have been omitted from the story! One thing that will result in a passenger offload, with most airline staff, is using the "F" or the "C" word used in a threatening manner. It could be that this is the bit missing from the article.
Can you really imagine a Captain offloading a passenger just for uttering a sarcastic "Well Done!"
- No, neither can I!!!
I can't help feeling, going back to the original story, that there are facts that have been omitted from the story! One thing that will result in a passenger offload, with most airline staff, is using the "F" or the "C" word used in a threatening manner. It could be that this is the bit missing from the article.
Can you really imagine a Captain offloading a passenger just for uttering a sarcastic "Well Done!"
- No, neither can I!!!
