RAAF Pilot
 

Hi all, hope this is the area where I ask this as I'm new here. My son is 17 doing year 12 and want's to be pilot in RAAF. He had completed his You session, then today went for the further testing and came undone on the mental arithmetic with questions like, 13,852 x 1/8 = . He was informed that he could reapply in 12 months. My question is, does the RAAF look at people applying for the second time seriously or are they really just interested in people making it through the first time? TIA.

No problems reapplying. Plenty of people get in the second time, shows persistence.

A large but worthwhile thread on the Mil Forum https://www.pprune.org/military-avia...am-merged.html

Why isn't your son on here asking such questions for himself? Initiative etc...

I'm not trying to wind you up, but I have trouble believing your son's assertion that he was asked to work out 13,852 x 1/8 off the top of his head?

When I first read that part of the original post my first reaction was along the lines of..."and just how many People could actually work that out in their heads??"

I used to top the Class in Primary School in Mental Arithmetic (mid to late 60's) when it was a fundamental part of Schooling in South Australian Primary Schools.

I'd struggle to even begin to calculate that sort of problem now!:ugh:

OK fellow Ppruners; Be honest now! Whom amongst us could do that calculation?:=

I could, I was taught mental arithmetic at primary school with the risk of a slippering if i got it wrong.

It's easy, divide by 2, and again and again. Half, quarter and eighth

No, I failed my first you session and destroyed it through the second time and got through the additional testing as well. I had no issues even though I was a second time applicant. I'd suggest for him to do some daily practice a few months prior to his resit to ensure he gets through it. I did the hard yards and passed, however, I've been waiting over 9 months for flight screening so I don't think my application is going any further. Although I have heard that people do get calls a year after but that is rare.

I don't know what questions they ask these days but I do know that when I did testing around twenty years ago it was very difficult and I couldn't get through the psychometric evaluation either. I missed out twice and replied again nevertheless. The third time I applied I was already working in the Territory flying light aircraft and they sent me tickets to fly from Victoria River Downs (Miles away from anywhere) via the mail plane then Airnorth to Darwin and then via Ansett down to Adelaide because the Darwin testing office was closed. They included accommodation and seemed very keen to have me reapply. I cannot begin to imagine how much that cost them.

I still don't really understand why they elected to do that but it's certainly evidence that they like persistence.

My then boss didn't allow me to take leave and I don't think I would have cut it anyway but I persevered with flying and never looked back.

The smart people with the high IQ level that they are looking for would be able to work that out in a flash (seriously).

It's how you look at it... like how the hell am I going to work it out versus, "oh yeah, 1/8th is simply a half then a half, then a half."

This is pretty standard stuff for armed forces, police, justice and government departments nowadays so once you've practiced a bit, they are a piece of cake. Most of these types of jobs now include an initial exam, on-line application where you sell yourself, a one-way video interview with half a dozen questions, if no initial exam then an online test including abstract reasoning, numerical comparisons and verbal reasoning, followed by a selection day consisting of group activities and typing speed and computer activities, psychometric, then followed by a panel interview. Not to mention pre-employment medical, police check and in-depth reference checks.

Gaining employment these days is not what it use to be!

Unless you are pretty cosy with a certain Deputy PM.

Thank goodness that I'm no longer looking for a job..

I'd have tried:

8 into one doesn't go.
8 into 13 does go once, carry 5.
8 into 58 does go 7 times, carry 2.
8 into 25 does go 3 times, carry 1.
8 into 12 goes once, carry 4
8 into 40 goes 5 times with no remainder.

So the solution is 1731.5

Thank goodness, SWTT that my mother patiently helped me with Roman numerals..:ok:

Close Gerry.
As Maxwell Smart would say to you. Missed by this much.
Amazing the magnitude of error with the incorrect positioning of a decimal point.

Thank goodness the RAF didn't require that sort of nonsense when recruiting for aircrew in 1939. The Poms would have lost the Battle of Britain due lack of pilots..

Find a cop on the street and give him that problem ;)

Do you know which band you were put in? You might not have faired as well as you thought in the tests.

I guess this is what those questions do, find out how people think. I didn’t think about half half and half or the long division, I know 1/8 is .125 so just times that. Interesting to see how different people approach a problem that initially looks a bit difficult.

I should have added... once you get through all those tests, they often have a pool of candidates, or merit pool or similar. For some departments like prisons, police and other gov bulk employer, you could end up in the pool for 12 months. If you don't have a high score, the newer smarter guys come along and get called up before you.

Competitive indeed!

I know some cops that could work out that equation and many that couldn't.

I'm assuming that you can't use a calculator so the .125 is out the window unless you're super smart!

When calculators aren't allowed and it looks really complex, you have to think outside the square and realise that there is a simple way to solve it, you just haven't realised yet.

I did it in my head and I ain’t super smart. Different people just work differently I guess

If you were asked to divide 1,385.2 by 4 and add the result to the original number, then most people could do it in their heads.
Exactly the question asked. 1/8th is 12.5%
Simply 10% of 13,852 + 1/4 of that added on.
It's not a maths problem but to see if you have the ability to simplify thought processes as your brain bucket fills up.

By band do you mean for additional testing? I got pilot on additional testing as well, and they said I can do my assessment day which I also passed and put through to flight screening. Or by band do you mean my dossier as a whole in the pool? Because I don't know that information.

They usually tell you what band you sit in. Ie how well you actually scored. If you are say band 4 but in the next 12 months a bunch more band 1, 2 or 3 applicants come in behind you, they will get called up from the hold pool for flight screening ahead of you.

The recruiter usually tells applicants what band they are while sitting in the hold pool waiting for a call to goto Flight screening.

If you’ve been waiting as long as you previously mentioned then perhaps you didn’t do as well as you thought, even though you met the minimum requirements for Flight screening.

Wow this is news to me, I've never heard of this band system. And I asked my recruiter how I was sitting in the pool and he said some weird percentile number which I can't remember. Is this band number determined by how well you do on the additional exams? Or is this band for your dossier i.e how you are sitting in the pool? It's entirely possible my dossier as a whole wasn't competitive.
EDIT: I just emailed my recruiter and he said this on band numbers: "The band scoring is no longer released to pilot candidates and this will be explained to you in further details when you attend the new aircrew selection process at East Sale." So looks like your information is outdated.

You're going to fit right in with the military - Not!
How about a little bit of humility on your part rather than continually trying to think you're smarter than everyone else. Your 18 years old and haven't even got an hour in your log book yet but want to argue to toss with everyone here with far more experience than you are ever likely to have.
If you're the future of our defence. Where's my friggin white flag.

I wouldn’t worry too much, no one with that attitude survives very long haha.

But only by a factor of ten.. This time...

My mates who had to put up with me in the RAAF, all these years later, continue to advise me that I was the dumbest of the dumb..

I repeat: Thank goodness that I'm no longer looking for a job.

It is easy, however brute force is not the easy way to do it in your head, break it down to multiple simple calculations which are fast and easy

13852=14000-148
13852/8=14000/8-148/8
14000/8=14000/2->7000/2->3500/2->1750
148/8=148/2->74/2->37/2->18.5=20-1.5

1750-20+1.5=1731.5

Anyone can do that in your head broken down like that.

Hey buddy, you've already pissed off people in the other RAAF pilot thread in the military section, now you're at it again... have a think about what you type!

Lol what? I'm not arguing with him, I'm just stating facts. My recruiter emailed me saying they don't use the band system anymore so his info is outdated, no attacking no trolling just pure facts. I don't see what your problem is.

What did I do to piss him off? I'm purely stating facts that my recruiter has emailed me.

yeah, I did it in my head this way, got the same answer. I was dragged thru primary school in the 60s.

It took me almost 30 seconds.

No one is pissed off at all.

They may not call it banding anymore, however the principal remains the same. You sit in a competitive pool of applicants until you get a tap on the shoulder to goto Flight screening. Someone may pass the entry tests at the recruiting center, but not score high enough to get picked to goto Flight screening, as better candidates leap frog said person with higher scores.

The name may have changed, however the concept remains the same.

Personally I couldn’t care less about your particular situation, I’m just stating how the system works overall.

Good luck which ever way you go in your flying career, it’s a brutal industry.

I hope for your sake Akahmi, that Akahmi is not your name, part of it or some kind of nickname because if someone from RAAF read your tripe from this forum, you could probably kiss a RAAF pilot career goodbye.

Your attitude represents a RISK to the department. If you're annoying so many people here, how many people will you annoy in the "real" world?

Believe it or not, your attitude here directly affects your ability to be able to fly a $70m Super Hornet. Why take YOU on-board when so many OTHERS don't publicly humiliate themselves on forums and whatever else you get up to?

Its a modern day problem. Kids now rarely need to be able to do mental math.
In flight instruction, I have had to teach students how to do mental math, it takes time and opportunity to develop that ability. The earlier the better.

These days, I see many pilots pull out a calculator to do calculations that can be done mentally if practiced.

When I check students calculations, its not uncommon to see figures one or more decimal places out or with no concept of what the answer should be looking like.
You have to teach them to do mental math in order for them to check their computed answers.

I'd view it as a test of being able to engage the brain.

At least our young friend Akhami was smart enough to delete the other thread...
Best move you've made thus far!

As you can see in Havick's response, he wasn't pissed off, me and him were having a regular conversation, but thank you for your invaluable feed back.

Thanks for that JosephFW, I hadn't looked for it again to check myself.

Goes to character your honour... I love it when the guilty go and delete old threads and posts in the off chance that nobody has read them. That's why it is good to use the quote function as they can't delete their dopey comments later on.

I rest my case.

Akhami, don't worry, you'll understand what I'm saying when you're older and hopefully more mature and wiser. Hopefully that happens before you screw up the rest of your life because you think you know more than everyone else right now.

I've got a very close friend in RAAF recruiting, I'll let him know to be on the the lookout for a naive self-deserving kid coming through.... it will be hard to find you amongst all the others like you!

Funny. I just look at and think it's about 1700. Not much maths that I've ever done in an aircraft needs more accuracy than that.

OMG...

This kid just doesn't get it!!

Ok so maybe you didn't piss off Havick, but you pissed me off (and others) with your attitude. But what do I know, I was only a RAAF QFI for 7 years.

Pull your head in!

I really wasn't going to comment on this thread, but maybe I'm finally getting a bit old and cranky....

Slezy9, StickWithTheTruth, and others; Could it just be possible that you have just been 'wound up?':hmm::uhoh::eek: