The truth usually does lie somewhere between the extremes.
Working ground jobs has always been a good way to get into flying, and any 250 hour fresh CPL who turns his nose up at sweeping the hangar floor pending a flying gig is both a tool and a fool.
On the other hand, if the employer expects him to do that for free the employer is a charlie uniform november tango. Worse, if he hires an old mate's kid ahead of the one doing the sweeping, he is a lying charlie uniform.....

When I went though the disgusting GA system, most had to slave first to get a gig. Really Pathetic.

So just to to be clear, guy who admitted working for less than the award creates thread to lament people undercutting his undercutting?

This place never fails to deliver :E

It never does, does it???:E:E:E

Is there an award for post of the year? Surely a DG&P regional finalist. :D

I was informed on another thread that pilots can't even spell yroni:ok:

I was once told by a prospective employer "you are unemployable with 240hrs"

That was for a C182/C206 job. He asked me to work for free and build my hours. Needless to say I never called back.

Unfortunately I am still unemployed, and had I taken the position, probably would have closer to 300hrs TT and a fair bit of 200 series time. However, as much as I love flying, I have an $60k student loan that will eventually need to be repaid, alongside the cost of living and the cost of renewing my medical, MECIR etc, which I'm sure fewer and fewer companies pay for these days.

I've never been an advocate for working for free, it lowers the standards for the rest of us.

However, some seem to think that ground duties are beneath them and seem to think it is the same as working for free. I remember mates doing carpentry apprenticeships, starting off with a 1 year "traineeship" getting paid two bits of f$%k all, sweeping up sites, picking up cutoffs, getting food etc Now they're earning a six figure salary.

There is also a growing trend of some people not wanting to move to remote locations, even if the accommodation is provided and the flying constant.

Lose the sense of entitlement, be prepared to work hard, even if it's not immediately a flying position.

If you work for free you're more than likely be working for a dodgy employer who your next potential employer will also know about and you may well find that by working for free that you've "tainted" yourself and some operators won't go near you as they know what conditions you've (willingly) worked in/with.

I'm a strong believer that you are the master of your own destiny, you are in control of your career, if you work hard, present well, stay determined and lose that ego, you will get that first job. :ok:

Well said WannaBeBiggles!

I've only been flying full time for about four years. But in that short time, it quickly became apparent that the guys and gals that arewilling to do other duties as well as flying, will be more successful than thefew that looked down their nose at such work. All on full time wages and aboveaward btw... I'm a strong believer that if you're being paid (correctly), thenyou should put in an honest day’s work and you will more than likely berewarded for it.

Never work for free! It destroys the industry for you andeveryone else!

Nothing wrong with doing ground duties. Anyone who thinks there is need's a reality check.

My first flying job early on involved doing ground jobs like mowing the lawn, sweeping the paths, washing the aircraft (I even got excited and decided to polish one!), etc. All paid of course.

The current generation need to harden the f*ck up and stop being a bunch of f*cking girls (girls excluded of course, but then don't be afraid to get your nails dirty, :ok:).

morno

Anyone who contemplates"Working for Free" better be sure he or she is covered by Workers Compensation Insurance.

Not very smart to put your whole future on the line and have it plucked away by an injury that is not covered .

I'll back up stacko on das's post :D

And ben, it's funny how life & flying turns out, keep at it, don't work for free, stand up right & don't live on your hands & knees :ok:

I hear and see a lot of this type of claim, particularly in the mining industry, but I have yet to be shown a verified payslip that backs up these claims. Show me the FACTS and I may be convinced, but until then, its all rumours, and lets face it, this is the appropriate site.:cool:

If a pilot flys for ...$1/mnth....he,s flying for free

If a pilot flys for... $100/nmth....he,s flying for free

If a pilot flys for... $3000/mnth...he,s flying for free

If a pilot flys for.. $10,000/mnth.....he,s flying for free

and now that Im flying for more than $13,000+/mnth..........I reckon Im still bloody flying for free!!!......WTF!!!!!

WannaBeBiggles well said.

Using floats as the example, it is a notoriously difficult 'niche' within a dog eat dog industry.

I have heard of too many examples of people sending in resumes to operators stating that either 'Floats is my dream job and will work for free to get a foot in the door', or 'I don't have the training but have a CPL with 250 hours, if you provide the endorsement then I will work for free for 'X' months'

What people don't realise is that for many of us, flying is our only source of income i.e we need to work to pay the bills. We don't have the luxury of mummy or daddy's bank account.

For those who want to break into the industry (and not just floats) then sometimes you have to do the hard yards! Be a ground crew personnel, wash planes, be in the ops room.

Not only will it get you in a company, but it gives you a fantastic opportunity to start to network.

Remember it is a very small industry, so don't burn your bridges. And for f**k sake don't work for free!!!

What is actually wrong with washing the plane we drive?
Don't we all wash our own cars, dishes etc that we have dirtied?
Personally, I am not a fan of hangar sweeping and such but a nice clean plane to fly is much more pleasurable than a dirty one with oil stains down the side. It's just taking a little bit of pride in your job I think.

On that note I best go and get the bucket and sponge out!

Oh, and I guess I should add that of course I would not do the above without getting paid.

From a non pilots position, i don't see what the fuss is about.
Getting hours seems to be a huge hurdle for low time/beginner fliers.
I know guys that have gone to missions to get their hours up, which also includes other duties.
This is just some kid desperate to get some hours up, doesn't have the $$ or the time to work at McD's to get it to rent a plane.
If were talking about someone with 1K+ hours or an RPT job, or an operator asking then different story.
Surely this is a one-off jumpstart in his career!

Best sticking to your area of expertise mainwheel

I agree with a lot of the sentiments expressed here, namely HTFU.
I swept the floor daily, emptied the bins and did all the !!!! kicking work. And why should I have been let loose on expensive equipment and materials when I had no clue?
Now I really appreciate a clean workshop and will sweep and even hose my workplace out regularly, because I have learnt that it makes for a more enjoyable, efficient workplace. And I actually enjoy cleaning up now, it's very theraputic!
As a tradesman earlier in life and a workshop manager later on, I forget when the last time a young person came in and actually came even close to completing an apprenticeship in the last 20 years.
They all think it's beneath them and think that at 19-21, they should be on $50k a year.
They'll only work hard the first week or two to try to impress everyone, then it's into the routine of sneaking off to make phone calls, pretending to be working whilst texting, using company computers when not authorised to peruse Seek, one sick day a week, coming in late etc. When you try and discuss their laziness and disregard for anyone else, they get aggressive and report you to management etc.
They also seem to lack an attention span greater than a hour or any real problem solving skills.
I've learnt a lot more about the equipment I operate by servicing, cleaning and generally looking after it, than any text book can ever teach me.
Getting any sort of qualification guarantees you nothing, put your head down and do some work. You'll feel better about yourself and learn a hell of a lot.

They all is an overstatement.
The place I worked at as a 19 year old treated its staff rather well. As a result myself, along with the others in that age bracket, were happy to work 50+ hours a week and our efforts were rewarded with a pay over 50k. Occasionally someone would come along that matches your description and they wouldn't last very long.

Being on the outside looking in I suppose I only have a limited view of this. I would love to switch from an office job to flying, and personally I would not mind doing the menial work if it came as part of a flying job (well, I need the exercise anyway). I can understand you are not going to be doing it all from the start and perhaps they do need to extract a bit more value from you if are not experienced enough yet to do the higher value jobs. If you are paid for it then why shouldn't you roll up your sleeves and do your part.

What I don't like the idea of is what I see in say Ice Pilots, where it seems like the "promise" of flying is held as a carrot to extract some cheap labour. Come along, break your back doing loading/cleaning and if you hang around for a year or two and put up with their crap, perhaps one day, if someone else does not pinch it, you can get a chance to fly, maybe, as long as you don't piss off the boss. It seems to me to be on the same level as pay to fly or fly for free - using someone's passion and dreams to cheapen your operations. Its not about doing the non-flying work, its that in being hired as a pilot (after training and hour building etc) should have a reasonable expectation to exercise your skills, not just have them as a flag that you are keen to do anything near an aircraft.

Prostitutes don't work for free. So don't lower your standards to below them. The GA award is there for a reason. You should expect no less. Just be prepared to be a productive member of the business.

Is this some sort of joke? I paid $80k for a CPL. I aint sweeping no floors.

Is that average? :eek: Wow. :(
You can do a Bachelor of Laws at a suitably snooty sandstone university for $35K, and it's considered an expensive degree. Even Med comes in at under $55K, including $15K for the primary degree.
Bachelor of Laws - Courses and Programs - The University of Queensland, Australia

Thats fine, dont get a job then.:ok:

True. I snuck back for an edit but you beat me to it.
You can have all the fancy qualifications in the world but if no-one wants to pay you reasonable rates for them, surely it's better to be working than not, even if it leaves a slightly foul taste in your mouth.

Not sweeping floors?

If you were dumb enough to pay $80K, I'm surprised they didn't save on the broom and convice you to lick them clean instead!:rolleyes:

No floor sweeping. Won't be going to far in GA then. Plenty of places where sweeping a floor or vacuuming the office is part of the job! I suppose for 80k washing your aircraft and cleaning windows is beneath you too?

Stop responding to this idiot, his name says it all ...

Just because I refuse to give in to doing a task thats beneath me doesn't mean I wont find a job. With a bit of patience and resilience I'll find a job doing what I've been trained to do, and thats fly aeroplanes.

Hahahaha. I'm guessing you were the guy at your flying school wearing bars and wings from your first lesson, doing your shopping in a uniform with an ASIC and aviators prominently on display just to 'impress the chicks'.

You're on fire mate, keep em coming.

:ok:

Beneath you? :confused:
What's your market value? What the market is willing to pay. :E

Is there really much difference between a 240 hour and 300 hour pilot in terms of employability?

Damn, too bad I missed out on all that when I was in GA. Would have seriously loved to have been given the opportunity to sweep floors. Some dudes get all the luck!! :E

Sweeping floors?

Looxury! When I was lad, I had to sweep the gravel parking bay!! No broom either, I had a worn out bannister brush. And, I was thankful to have it!

FFS ! what is this the 50s DON'T WORK FOR FREE :mad::ugh:

Interesting how we get about 10 replies on this thread responding to an obvious troll whose profile says they are 7 years old.... :D

Quote:
I paid $80k for a CPL. I aint sweeping no floors.


You mean your parents paid for it dude! And you haven't even got the decency to pay them back.

Blatant Liar true story coming up.
Someone I know well paid his own way to a CPL. I was able to use a contact in the industry to secure him a job with a King Air operator as a general dogs body. He swept the floor, washed the aeroplane, even had to clean the owner's swimming pool, but it was a job in aviation, albeit on the fringe. After a few months of this, they needed a copilot in a hurry, so he got to wear a uniform and sit in the right seat. Only a few months later they needed a captain in a hurry. The punters liked this kid's attitude, so the boss took a punt and sent him to the USA to do a proper course on the Kingair.
The guy in this story is now a Captain on wide body aircraft with a major airline.
All the time you sit around waiting for your god given right to a flying job just because you paid bucks for a licence, some kid out there is getting the drop on you by doing the hard yards.

Here here Mach e
Agree with you whole heartedly.
There is no easy path. Just hard work and dedication.
The spoilt little rich kids of the world think they are owed a career. How do you get through to them?