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Hand, or rope, starting your aircraft
It seems the previous thread that included some detail on hand or rope starting aircraft was deleted?
Admittedly it deviated from it's original intent, however the content was interesting, so I've found my manual on the DC-3 rope start procedure and scanned a copy of that here for anyone that may find it useful. My recollection is that the C-47 I flew was in the Pacific for WW2 and that there was some specific additional information on rope starting. Unfortunately I wasn't able to find that in the brief time I spent looking, if I do I'll update - otherwise if you've flown VH-CAN you may recall what I'm talking about...? I also found a photo of some real-life practice rope-starting, source is DC3 Southern Skies Pioneer, Brian Lockstone and Paul Harrison, Random House, 2000. megan had a good photo too, although in that case I think they'd wrapped the rope around the prop boss: https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....15cefde90e.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....b93d2c94d9.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....32e81b61df.jpg |
Thanks for that! It was a similar sketch that I referred to in the last thread that seems to have gone walkabout.
I am still sceptical that it would always work. My recollection of starting those buggers involved a fair amount of cranking, hitting spark boosters and tickling primer switches. I suppose enough persistance and a bit of luck could eventually crack it. Never tried it or witnessed it. An alternative method suggested of wrapping a rope around the prop dome then pulling with a vehicle would impose enormous stresses, so that sounds like something you’d only do to in desperation to escape someone shooting at you. Some of the Pommy Dakotas retained their original wartime inertia starters. These were either electrically or hand cranked to spin up a flywheel then a clutch was engaged, though I only ever used the electric system. |
FP, the illustration and procedural text you posted is the exact word for word copy of what was posted previously, even down to the serial number and issue date. Pity the site where we got the info from didn't attribute its source, New Zealand National Airways Corporation.
Some of the Pommy Dakotas retained their original wartime inertia starters |
In addition, the licence-built Lisunov variants of the DC-3 had a fitting for a Hucks starter on the propeller boss.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....61bf7d2437.jpg https://pickledwings.files.wordpress...2/img_0715.jpg |
Yes. I had seen photos of rope starting DC-3 / C47; luckily there were plenty of staff on hand and presumably an appropriate sling.
It was a post in a different thread (which, peculiarly, has since vanished) which stated they had rope started a fuel injected Islander in the highlands of PNG which particularly intrigued me. Can someone explain how to rope start a BN-2 with a two bladed prop and a spinner. There’s obviously some neat trick which I’m missing. |
Pprune has a thread with folk starting DC-3, C-46 and Shakletons using the rope trick.
https://www.pprune.org/private-flyin...ing-dc3-3.html |
Great thread, Megsie. Thanks for the link. Halcyon days of aviation, when flying was fun and admitting to knowing the rules was sneered at.
Old farts like us were lucky to have experienced both the dodgy, the “innovative” and imaginative little stunts of the era. There were some characters who preceded us who are now in that final holding pattern. |
Ah yes Lucille, when the sex was safe and the flying dangerous. Damn I miss those days!!
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Originally Posted by Mach E Avelli
(Post 11440750)
Thanks for that! It was a similar sketch that I referred to in the last thread that seems to have gone walkabout.
I am still sceptical that it would always work. My recollection of starting those buggers involved a fair amount of cranking, hitting spark boosters and tickling primer switches. I suppose enough persistance and a bit of luck could eventually crack it. Never tried it or witnessed it. An alternative method suggested of wrapping a rope around the prop dome then pulling with a vehicle would impose enormous stresses, so that sounds like something you’d only do to in desperation to escape someone shooting at you. Some of the Pommy Dakotas retained their original wartime inertia starters. These were either electrically or hand cranked to spin up a flywheel then a clutch was engaged, though I only ever used the electric system. Unless you have had to use three switches, starter, vibrator and prime to start an engine you have missed all the fun. Now was that 15 blades or 8? : ) |
15 on the Pratt, 9 on the Wright…I think, memory is dim now.
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****, I only made a comment on another thread about rope starting an Islander and the lapuns have got exited!
I’m impressed 👍👍 |
15 cold, 6 when warm rings a bell,
but then again I can’t remember what I had for breakfast let alone bou stuff from the 90s, |
Originally Posted by megan
(Post 11441218)
FP, the illustration and procedural text you posted is the exact word for word copy of what was posted previously, even down to the serial number and issue date. Pity the site where we got the info from didn't attribute its source, New Zealand National Airways Corporation...
Thanks for posting that other link, I am interested in the efficacy and advisability of rope starting from the prop boss/spinner as described in the Land Rover scene. As I see it having a sock on the prop tip is reasonable (and would appear to be an approved SOP in some cases), and you'd expect it to fly off and out of the way if/when the engine started (if it hadn't already), however I see at least three issues with the boss rope: (1) unless you're very careful and get the rope exactly orthogonal to the boss (and have a very straight boss) it will either pull off, or become entangled with the blades (2) if you're unlucky the rope could become entangled with the blades if the engine started and said rope wasn't out of the way in time, oh la la! (3) while it's been some time since I worked on a DC3 I don't remember the boss being all that strong, it seems to me that miss-application of force on the rope could damage it quite easily? Mach E Avelli clearly has similar thoughts (and yes, I agree they could be a chore to get going at times!). Thus It'd be good to hear from someone that's actually done a boss rope start, if they're still here to tell the tale... FP. |
Originally Posted by Mach E Avelli
(Post 11441430)
15 on the Pratt, 9 on the Wright…I think, memory is dim now.
Here is the relevant NAC process from '68: https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....cf4e1e58bc.png |
Originally Posted by lucille
(Post 11441246)
Yes. I had seen photos of rope starting DC-3 / C47; luckily there were plenty of staff on hand and presumably an appropriate sling.
It was a post in a different thread (which, peculiarly, has since vanished) which stated they had rope started a fuel injected Islander in the highlands of PNG which particularly intrigued me. Can someone explain how to rope start a BN-2 with a two bladed prop and a spinner. There’s obviously some neat trick which I’m missing. |
I hand started a 260HP Islander one time when the starter went U/S and I was on the other side of the Owen Stanleys late on a Friday afternoon.
AY taught me the procedure in case it was ever needed. Had to get back to the Club Dero for the Friday night BBQ.:D |
Started a DC3 at Bairnsdale by hand sometime in 1970. It was a hot start and the starter motor failed i.e.when selected nothing happened!.
The Captain was Mayne McKern, the SRC for JetAir, and he had the answer in his head despite no starter rope being carried. Can't remember which acft it was but they were all R1830 engined. Co-opted several of the male passengers and after carefully priming the engine, and turning it through a number of blades, about 3 or 4 joined hands with me and with mags on, pulled it through and walked away as the engine started first go!. All aboard and back to Essendon by just on dark. Was something to remember! |
Originally Posted by Maisk Rotum
(Post 11442778)
I started an Islander with a rope. Talair, 38 years ago in PNG. Had a dummy run first with the mags off. Wrapped the rope over itself initially and then maybe 4 to six times around the spinner. Test proved the rope came away freely. Had three of us on the rope as best I can remember. Worked well. I think it was my last flight on type with Talair.
Ah ha! Thanks for that. I would have been too afraid to wreck the spinner. Obviously they’re way stronger than I gave them credit for. |
First Principal
My recollection is that the C-47 I flew was in the Pacific for WW2 and that there was some specific additional information on rope starting. Unfortunately I wasn't able to find that in the brief time I spent looking, if I do I'll update - otherwise if you've flown VH-CAN you may recall what I'm talking about...? An alternative method suggested of wrapping a rope around the prop dome then pulling with a vehicle would impose enormous stresses, so that sounds like something you’d only do to in desperation to escape someone shooting at you. VH-MMA is possibly the -3 that you are thinking of? It was General McArthur’s transport in the Pacific for a time. Stretching the memory a bit, the Flight Manual of Air Norths DC3s (VH-CAN being the other) had the Rope Start instructions, including rope around the prop done that Mach mentions. It also had interesting instructions on how to picket the aircraft in snow and ice. (Fun fact, the Royal Darwin Hospital has external pitched concrete structures around the building to protect it from snow over load. The building was allegedly designed for Alaska). IIRC, Hank used the Rope about the prop dome (man powered, not car powered) to get out of Maningrida back in the day when overnighting there was considered on par with being shot at. |
Originally Posted by pithblot
(Post 11445539)
First Principal
FP, VH-MMA is possibly the -3 that you are thinking of? It was General McArthur’s transport in the Pacific for a time. |
Originally Posted by pithblot
(Post 11445539)
First Principal
FP, VH-MMA is possibly the -3 that you are thinking of? It was General McArthur’s transport in the Pacific for a time. Stretching the memory a bit, the Flight Manual of Air Norths DC3s (VH-CAN being the other) had the Rope Start instructions, including rope around the prop done that Mach mentions. Otherwise interesting that your manuals showed the rope start around the boss. My recollection is that the prop pitch mechanism was located under that cover, and that it wasn't particularly strong, but it's been a long time since I was up close and personal with one so perhaps it'd stand a rope start with aplomb! FP. |
Fun fact, the Royal Darwin Hospital has external pitched concrete structures around the building to protect it from snow over load. The building was allegedly designed for Alaska Darwin https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....0a896f479e.jpg Canberra https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....a427d0816f.jpg |
From Captain Reg Adkins' book, "I Flew For MMA":
Don Anderson and his co-pilot, John Pierce, with John Caesar and Bruce Melrose on the cameras, were a good example. As Don recalls (from November 1956), "We had been at Albany with DC-3 VH-AES for 13 days with no flying, due to cloudy weather. There was one day's flying to finish the Photographic Run and the forecast was such that if we could take off by 0900 the Run could be completed and we could all go home that day. On arrival at the airport, I found the batteries had not enough power to turn the props over, and the cloudy weather was due to return. The crew was thinking of another 14 days on the ground. I had heard of starting an aircraft engine with a rope on the tip of the prop and wound around the boss, the rope then being pulled by a Jeep. But I thought the idea a bit messy and fraught with trouble. So I thought I would get John Pierce to hang on to the tip of the prop, with John Caesar holding on to John Pierce's wrist, and Bruce Melrose holding on to John Caesar's wrist with both his hands, all pulling away from the prop - as they were keen to go home! I was sitting in the cockpit, and decided to have a Dummy Run with the magnetos off. All went well until the "pull" started. They were pulling the port prop towards the port wing tip at an angle of about 20° forward of the plane of the blade rotation. The pull was executed with such strength and determination that John Pierce hurt his hand holding onto the prop tip and nearly dislocated both shoulder blades. John Caesar also nearly dislocated both his shoulders as Bruce pulled on his wrist with both hands. My crew were not keen to try this method again! So we tied a 20ft length of rope loosely around the tip of the prop, when the blade tip was at eight o'clock and with the magnetos off, the rope pulled the tip through 7, 6, and 5 o'clock to 4 o'clock where the loosely tied rope easily slipped down the blade tip. With the engines primed and prop on compression, all was set to go and I called `Contact' as I switched the mags on. They all pulled the rope hard, the prop swung, and as the rope came off the 4 o'clock position my crew all fell in a heap on the tarmac and to their delight, the engine started. |
Originally Posted by Fris B. Fairing
(Post 11445815)
I'm not saying that MacArthur never flew on VH-MMA but the aircraft that was assigned to his GHQ and on which he flew to Canberra to meet with Prime Minister Curtin was later VH-ANR. This DC-3 was soon replaced by a brand new C-47 (not MMA).
I expect you are correct. I’m dredging the memory of what I recall as the unofficial history of MMA as relayed to me in the crew room back in the 80s. |
Snow eaves
Megan,
yeah, maybe :) The ‘snow eaves’ are explained in the link below. Another urban legend bites the dust. Why are the Darwin and Canberra hospitals identical, complete with 'snow eaves'? |
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Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs
(Post 11446173)
From Captain Reg Adkins' book, "I Flew For MMA":
I hope they wearing hi vis jackets, hearing protection and ASIC's during this venture. |
Banjo, None of them around any any more but I'm sure they would have said of our current OHS... "What a load of codswallop!". :}
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