Originally Posted by megan
(Post 11360654)
Class 4 instrument rating was what the authority called a NVFR rating in the old days, I had one. It's a pity they dropped the word "Instrument" because it removed an element stressing the skills required.
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What you forget is that too many guys went to Oshkosh and got an FAA licence (certificate) and when asked if they had an instrument rating they said 'Yep, a Class 4 instrument rating'. So the FAA man duly stamped their FAA licence/certificate as having an instrument rating.
So in time the Australian regulator of the day opted to rename the ticket as a NVFR rating. |
Originally Posted by Aussie Bob
(Post 11360619)
I am talking NVFR here not IFR! Every night VFR pilot I have ever trained or tested has always at least tried to establish a horizon during the flight when it is safe. Are you telling me they shouldn't? Heck, why don't we just make it IFR?
So Aussie Bob can you log IF when NVFR? |
Originally Posted by compressor stall
(Post 11360791)
So Aussie Bob can you log IF when NVFR?
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Originally Posted by Capt Fathom
(Post 11360824)
Well if it’s a VFR flight……
You suddenly see the glow of a cloud bank in your lights. It’s altostratus as forecast and you descend 500’ to remain clear of it. Still no visual clues available for piloting the aircraft. You don’t enter the cloud. Your passenger behind you can see the farmhouse light behind continuously should she be looking that way. |
Yep. It’s still a VFR flight as far as the rules are concerned. You can log whatever you want.
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Originally Posted by Capt Fathom
(Post 11360857)
Yep. It’s still a VFR flight as far as the rules are concerned. You can log whatever you want.
But to stop that sidetrack, are you conducting IF in my above scenario? |
Originally Posted by Aussie Bob
(Post 11360414)
indeed. Perhaps though you should read the manual for 182/206 with rubber bladder tanks fitted. The correct procedure is to rock the wings to move water potentially trapped in ripples in the bladder.
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The 182/206 issue started with dodgy flush mounted fuel caps that have now been mostly replaced by caps on a raised edge. If water is suspected, the entire rock wings, lower tail process needs repeating several times.
[QUOTE]So Aussie Bob can you log IF when NVFR[/QUOTE Moronic 😀 The question is, can a competent and current NVFR pilot climb to LSALT on instruments within a 3 NM radius of the departure airport? We are assuming the instruments are all serviceable and the pilot has a failure plan. Nope you cant log it IF either. Now, if the pilot while glancing outside notes a distinct and clear horizon while climbing, can he use that as well? Personally, I would say that if they can’t they are not fit to hold the rating. |
Correct you can’t log IF when inside on instruments on climb to the LSALT.
But what of my scenario above? Is it IF? The CASR changes have an interesting anomaly…. Now, if the pilot while glancing outside notes a distinct and clear horizon while climbing, can he use that as well? |
But what of my scenario above? Is it IF? The CASR changes have an interesting anomaly…. No, no-one here said the horizon shouldn't be used but some seemed to state that it doesn't exist .... I think everybody here knows that the rating has very limited appeal or practicality, but a flight over a city at night is great and this allows it. Also pre dawn departures are high on some touring pilots minds, as is arrival at or just beyond last light. It was once a requirement for a CPL and Aussies converting their CPL to an FAA version without an IFR must get it, (so I am told). |
Originally Posted by Aussie Bob
(Post 11361112)
I totally agree, it is in fact IF but cannot be logged for some reason, I mean WTF?
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Originally Posted by Aussie Bob
(Post 11361037)
The question is, can a competent and current NVFR pilot climb to LSALT on instruments within a 3 NM radius of the departure airport?
All night departures are done using instruments, but the pilot has to remain in VMC at all times, therefore IF time is not logged. Night rating is good to have for reasons mentioned above. In my opinion, 2-3 hours of Night flying during Instrument rating training (CIR/PIFR) is not sufficient to conduct night flying. Freshly minted IFR pilots without extensive night training will confirm that. Interestingly, the engine splutters, aircraft crashes without fuel burn (nor explosion), yet illusions associated with Instrument conditions are to blame? |
WTF has all this **** got to do with anything if the pilot took off without any runway lights?
What ever happened to Airmanship???? |
Bosi72, not all aircraft explode and burn on impact like in the movies!
Short of someone draining fuel from this aircraft, he would be pretty unlucky to have run out of field some 800 metres off the end of the runway! |
Boss,
I ask the question how does one remain within 3 nm radius of a non-lit aerodrome at 4.40 am. No strong town lights, no farm lights, little or no cars on the roadway. Nothing to give you a reference to remain close to the departure airport while circling while trying to get above the LSALT.. No doubt questions that the ATSB report will tell us very interested spectators and fellow pilots. One leans from the mistakes of others. R |
Check your PMs R👍
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I don't think YPOK would meet any criteria for night operations due to significant terrain within 3nm. That is you could stay within 3nm and still hit terrain 1000ft above the airfield. The ridge line covering the entire western aspect is above 2000ft and just over 1nm from the runway, to the East is not much better.
Pretty sure there will be no ATSB report, GA, no fatality, no interest.... They won't even investigate an airline that's had 4 engine failures in a few months. |
CASA may have the opportunity to apply the strict liability clause if the pilot can’t justify taking off in the dark.
I also doubt the insurance company will pay out if it’s a breach in regulation. |
Looking at the topo.
the spot height 2.8nm south on centreline is 1450’ above circuit altitude. |
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