Mid-air collision involving Piper PA-44-180 Seminole, VH-JQF, and Beech D95A Travel A
 

On 19th February 2020 the above mid-air collision occurred. In two weeks it will be the second anniversary of the deaths of those four airmen.
While the TSI Act requires reports to be published as soon as practicable, ICAO Annex 13 to the Convention on International Civil Aviation "Aircraft Accident and Investigation Manual" has an additional stipulation:It is difficult to know why ATSB ignores Annex 13, or why they are taking so long to reach their conclusions, however.....
Since, there have been three other similar incidents at Mangalore and Ballina :

• 28 Nov 2020 A0-2020-62 / Ballina between a Jetstar A320 and a Jabiru
• 6 Jun 2021 A0-2021-023 / Mangalore, a PA 44 doing practise instrument approaches and a passing AW139 helicopter
• 16 Sep 2021 A0-2021-038 / Ballina, Virgin 737, Jetstar A320 and a C-208

How long do we have to wait?

No doubt Covid will get a mention as a reason for the delay.

It takes a long time to craft a report that explains why Air Services doesn’t provide the services you thought it was going to provide, why the mandated gizmos don’t deliver the benefits we were told they were going to deliver and why, therefore, it’s all the pilots’ fault.

There’s no such thing as a systemic problem any more and it’s ATSB’s job to keep coming to that conclusion. It’s neater that way.

This report took 7 months. Mid-air collision from the 70s. Typed.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/...ts/AAR7905.pdf

Lead Balloon, sadly, I agree with your assessment.

at the end of the day, we are going to get a watered down apology of a report which, if printed out, would not even be useful as decent bog roll - despite nationwide shortages.

as an aside, as the regulations are being rewritten to such an extent, will we see the requirement to be a fit and proper person be removed from the regs?

at the very least, will we see a definition of “fit and proper”?

No, I did not think so.

They have to wait until the Christmas Eve after they believe that everyone has forgotten about it before they can release a report.

That way, you can get away with blaming three non structural screws missing from the firewall as the cause of the crash.

What are you expecting to get out of it? They've already implemented changes in an attempt to alleviate some of the "concerns". You think they'll take any notice of any ATSB recommendations? Those guys don't live in the real world.

TIEW, if you would indulge us plebs!

Who are “They’ve” ?

What are the ‘changes” ?

What were the “concerns” ?

Who are “they’ll” ?

Who are “those guys” ?

Some specifics please otherwise the readers on this thread will think you are making things up…

Sounds more like like BLA everyday . . .

Wasn’t CASA doing an AIRSPACE REVIEW?

Has anyone seen a copy?

GF - I checked the OAR website for airspace reviews of Mangalore since the mid-air collision without success.
That is not to say that OAR has not done an airspace review, only that I could not find it on the CASA website.

LB, congrats, post of the year. Says it all.

I thought it had been released. Perhaps it was released and then pulled for a bit more wordsmithing.

GF - I checked the Coroners Court of Victoria website for Inquests into the Mangalore mid-air without success.
That is not to say that the Coroners Court of Victoria has not done an Inquest, only that I could not find it on the Coroners Court of Victoria website.

It"s a conspiracy, man..
 

MrApp / Missy,

Thanks for your responses...

So no report despite 2 years of an alleged investigation by ATSB?

So no report despite an alleged MNG airspace review by CASA?

So no details despite alleged changes by Airservices?

So ?no coroner's inquiry despite alleged expectations of one as per BLA?

Assume no relevant questions from RRAT Senste Estimates despite overview os ATSB, AsA and CASA tomorrow...

if I was paranoid I'd be crying a conspiracy...

Strangely the four police killed in Victoria in a horrific crash on the Eastern Freeway in Melbourne quite rightly appear to have had complete investigations and responsibility/accountability allocated.

Why are pilots lives worth less?

I'd be ecstatic to be proved wrong by any of the points above...

Hi Missy – Not sure how to take your repetition of my words in regard to reports, so I choose to ignore any implied sarcasm.
Reading the Victorian Coroner's Act I would expect the Office to hold an inquiry – indeed I am aware of how the NSW Coroner handled a mid-air collision at Coolangatta in which four pilots died.
I would however also expect the coroner to wait for both a report from the police and from ATSB before launching such an inquiry. I dare say, like us, the Victorian Coroner is wondering what happened to the ATSB report.

So, what is it that you want? A mandate on times for release of reports? Fair enough, I guess, but the upshot of that is a commitment from the Federal Government to provide more staff and resources to the ATSB, assuming it's a staffing / resourcing vs backlog of work issue rather than inefficiency.

A completed investigation is something to tick a box, I guess, but it's a far cry from there to prevention of similar future occurrences. Don't get me wrong, a detailed investigation properly conducted and reported is an admirable achievement, but it doesn't fix anything.

What do we actually want? How much will it cost? Does the use of airspace vs cost of providing separation services make it something the taxpayer would or should cough up for?

I went to a presentation of theirs a couple of years ago, and staffing was an issue. Those that are there are spread across multiple disciplines and it was said they usually get multiple aviation incident reports across the country each day that need to be dealt with.

Australia's leading civilian ANSP brought officials from Skyguide to Australia to talk to ATCs about the Überlingen mid-air. Managers determined that such a thing could never happen in Australia. Oh, how we forget. Single controller responsible for larger and larger sectors, less service provision, ill conceived airspace changes.

Report? Blame the pilots, move on. That's the standard isn't it? What else do you want?
Yes....Everything is fine, the airspace is fine, air services is fine, CASA is fine, the ATSB is fine and adequately staffed, mmm yes it's all fine. So stop asking questions... oooo look over there, a shiny red ball.. Go on catch the shiny ball.. yes.good boy.

So - it's the 19th February 2022, two years to the day, and nothing!
Well, not quite, the Government-owned ANSP has reacted to “something” by inventing a new type of ICAO airspace around Mangalore and Ballina. I.E. Class G with traffic information and mandatory reporting for all aircraft, and the ex-CEO of ATSB has joined the ANSP's Board as Deputy Chair to a RAAF fighter pilot.
Come on Mr Joyce, come on Senator McDonald, when is the public going to find out what our “world-famous” aviation inspectorate thinks went wrong?
I guess we should not worry because the preliminary reports said this:
“However, should a critical safety issue be identified during the course of the investigation, the ATSB will immediately notify relevant parties, so appropriate safety action can be taken,” Perhaps it already has........