Even then, China won't be soaking up many expatriate pilots. Their pilot training pipeline last year was in overdrive to the extent all the trainers were burning out. The pace of training has slackened off this year but they are still cranking out almost all the pilots they will need for the foreseeable future. Which means all the expat pilots who might otherwise have gone to China remain in the big pilot pool here, meaning there is very little progression through the local ranks to open up entry level positions for low hour CPL's.

China will have a secondary issue down the road, pre-2020 thousands of domestic cadets were going to Australia, America and Europe.

That has completely stopped. Domestic training is rising but still can't support the supply. I've trained many in Australia over years until covid ended that, and still stay in contact with a few of the good ones. They tell me that a massive number of those assigned to widebodies are now back doing 320/737 ratings. Initial type rating training for cadets has almost dropped by 75% at one of the major Chinese Airlines I was told because the last of the cadets they sent overseas (including Australia) returned in Jan this year.

That's not actually what I meant. I meant that if China doesn't open its doors to its own people and allow them to travel the world like what happened in 2000, which is what kicked off this unprecedented growth rate, that not even a GFC could slow down over the last 20 years. Unless China starts travelling again outside of China and the cruising industry is restored, then it follows that demand would be around 50% (a guess) what it was prior to 2020.

Just curious as to why you decided to do did the FIR in the current climate...

Did the flying school you did it at say there was a job for you at the end of it?

Yeah I was told I would be offered some unpaid flying at the end to assess my suitability but then the lockdown came. They told me there was no chance and they would give work to their existing instructors so I am now in more debt with no job. I have read that flying schools are selling the dream and all of us students are getting roped into it.

Well, there was your mistake. Don't trust anything you are told in this caper. Don't trust anything you get in writing either, but at least if you get something in writing you have half a leg to stand on. Rather than none. And above all else, if you get any offer for unpaid flying work, keep that to yourself because mentioning it here can never be good for your career. And keep in mind if you fly/work for free, chances are liabilities might be on your shoulders, and insurance might be non existent. The call center job seems the way to go. Much safer than flying and better paid.

Yep, sorry, that’s the end of any sympathy.

Hi Petra,

Don't listen to the misanthropes.

Young / new pilots have had a bit of bad luck entering the aviation industry during a global pandemic, but do not give up.

Use this time to put some money in the bank, increase your employability in preparation for the new normal (whatever that is going to look like). Obtain a bus licence, senior first aid, book keeping skills (MYOB / Xero), anything that will make you more employable to a GA Charter company than the next new pilot resume in the pile.

Whilst it is true that international travel is kaput at present and border closures etc are causing challenges, remember that a pilots first flying job is usually located in remote parts of Northern of Australia.

Try to book a caravan site or hotel room in Cairns, Kununurra or Broome,,,, you can't, they are all full.

The Aboriginal Communities are still busy, services and produce flying in and out.

So, why don't you have a flying job ?

You are not likely to be offered a job whilst you are sitting thousands of KMS away.

Pick a place where your first job is, move there, get a job picking fruit, pulling beers and/or some other job you can do. Submit your resume with local operators, become a part of the furniture and wait. Be very careful how you behave, these are small towns and stories of bad behaviour will spread very quickly. My first job was with an operator in Kununurra, the owner was a clever bloke, the final step before employment was the Friday afternoon BBQ, the prospective pilot would be fed full of full strength beers and the boss would sit back and see what emerged, it was quite breathtaking at times. One person got into an argument with the CP (who was a top bloke), another got totally wiped out then jumped into his/her car and drove back to town...

Above you have read about B777 Captains that are unemployed, you are not competing with these people for your first job. They are unlikely to be willing to work in the locations where these jobs are, for the money on offer. But most importantly when their B777 jobs restart, they will return to those jobs immediately (I sincerely hope this happens sooner rather than later), and the GA Charter operators know this.

Don't fly for free, ever.

^^^^^This is good advice.

Try to find a place that has some reasonable paid work, that will allow you to stay in the mind of the charter companies.

Kununurra, Mt Isa, Katherine, Alice, Kalgoorlie, Broome, and to a lesser extent, Cairns, Darwin

For example, I recently saw an add for baggage handler in Mt Isa, a great start and a good way to learn the area and who does what in aeroplanes.

If you could see that their existing instructors had been laid off, I'm not sure why you believed them when they told you they'd give you a job at the end of your rating.

I'd have thought it would seem pretty obvious that they would bring back their existing instructors before employing someone new.

FYI:
Like any other educator, flying schools are in the business of training pilots.
Whether or not there is a job at the end of the training is not their problem.

Why? it's also on their website as 45 experience hours (non-paid)

Thanks for the tips everyone. I just got the job at Red Energy call centre and I will be pursuing this as my career for now. I will look into getting another loan for a helicopter PPL. This might help...

Petra you have been given lots of wonderful and considered advice. How is getting a helicopter PPL going to help in any shape or form. Why would you go in to further debt.

petra.oskertrich1995 you do yourself no favours, I suspect this to be bogus, no one could be so unaware, could they?

Good luck with the chopper license. Brilliant thinking (and trolling)

You’ve had a busy 6 months during these COVID times! So what was the feedback from the Operators you visited in Broome and Alice?

What ever credibility and sympathy you might have had, that is well and truly evaporated now. Borrow even more money for a helicopter PPL. Utterly insane.

Absolutely top notch fishing - and so many bites!

Step 1: keep applying and don't give up. You are not competing against 10000+ hrs 777 pilots.
Once this is over, they will compete against themselves for a very limited number of seats. The rest positions will be filled with young people like yourself.
Step 2: go to Step 1.

Great wind-up!

I'm not sure I understand. Is the suggestion the OP is punking the PPruNe community with the PPL-H brainwave?

I just registerd myself on this foroum, cause I'm in the same situation, i've a lot of debts. I have no job after the PPL-H. I'm currently hestitating to be graduate of ATPL-A. What do you think about this ?Do you think it can improve my chances to find a job ?
My dream is to work for virgin altantic

The call center is calling you. Put the aviation career on hold for the time being and find something else to do. You totally lost me with the PPL-H thing...

This is why I loathe so many of my colleagues in aviation. A young person comes in here, despondent at lack of flying jobs, and the majority of responses just demonstrate how incredibly egotistical most pilots are. Why can’t you be adults and be supportive of someone, rather than using it to dig in the knife in over their choices and start your own pity party?

“Never mind you mate, imagine if you were already working in aviation!”

“You shouldn’t have borrowed money to learn to fly.”

”Here’s a song about crying tears.”

With so many self-centred, egotistical responses from Aussie pilots - it’s no surprise ‘89 happened.

Petra - it will be okay. Get other employment ASAP, get lots of hobbies and outside interests to keep your mind and body busy, but simultaneously keep beating on doors to get your first flying job. Life can’t be controlled, and things will happen when the universe wants them to - not on your schedule.

I finished my CPL and MECIR within weeks of September 11 and thought I’d never get a job as pilot. It didn’t take too long to find something, and then a few years later there was an incredible pilot shortage. Aviation is a feast and famine industry. We’re in famine at the moment, so feast is coming.

Post #67

Petra = CosmicVirgin. :}

Keep throwing that burley out, the fish are biting furiously !!!!

I will take the bait because I think she is probably simply young and scatterbrained. In this and her earlier threads she has has copped a few negative comments, but overall, people here have tried to offer some really sound advice - which she has TOTALLY ignored.
The main thrust of the good advice has been to get other qualifications in fields that would provide job opportunities, and not throw more money at aviation bolt-on bull**** ‘qualifications’ which won’t help land that first flying job. Even now, she says she is going to renew her Instrument Rating -despite being told 200 hour CPLs don’t get gigs flying IFR twins.Then she says she will blow more on a Helicopter PPL. She would be better off buying a bloody drone, which at least could develop skills far more likely to be in demand in the future.
OTOH Cosmic Virgin is a troll, though he/she meant Galactic, not Atlantic...

I think it's safe to say the original poster is trolling- However the thread has served to bring out some really great advice that will be read by thousands of aspiring pilots, students, fresh CPLs in the future. I know when I started out, Pprune was helpful in removing my rose-tinted glasses and adopt a more realistic view on the industry that flight schools with an agenda just weren't providing.

I only mentioned the Instrument renewal because I was told by an instructor that an employer likes to see a few renewals on my resume. I do not want to spend more money than what I have to of course and spent too much already with already too much debt. The helicopter licence is not something I want to do but I have read a few peoples responses here that say to get as many qualifications on the resume as possible to help get the first job. I was thinking helicopter or air traffic control apprenticeship. I am getting sick and tired of the insults to be honest. Okay so I am "scatterbrained" and I'm in my 20s and I don't know what I am doing so I come here to the forum and ask. Like I am sorry if this offends some people but I am only asking and please stop with all of the abusive & insulting personal messages.

I have read all of the advice and some people have given me some really good advice. I have been to the north and looked around and I plan on returning. I am only new around here but I sense a big bullying culture on here - like being at school as a new kid. A few people want to take it upon themselves to attack me or shame me with insults.

No I of course don't want to spend any more money but I don't know what else to do to build my resume. I thought of helicopter and I saw recently air traffic controller traineeship on the Air Services website. I'm looking at all of my possible options.

There is no bullying culture on this site, Petra - in fact, the community will often pull up anyone who makes ad hominem posts against others.

However, if one asks for advice and then throws the time and good will others spent to dispense their hard-earned experience back in their faces, one should at the very least expect some negative feedback. Self-awareness and resilience are key to success in life.

On the off-chance you're not a troll, I'd advise looking at a flying career in the RAAF or Navy.

:D:D:D

Can't get your civilian career to kick off? Just become an ADF pilot - it's that easy.

Petra, I think you should skip the PPL-H and just go all in on a CPL-H. Being dual hatted would be an asset to any business.

I was in a very similar spot in 2008 when I got my CPL. It was just as the GFC hit and there were no jobs for a very long time. I didn't land my first GA job til 2010 and it was very tough to stay motivated.

I got offered a couple of "jobs" that were really work for free as you were paid per hour to fly (which was only 3 or 4 hours weekly) but the rest of the week you were expected to work in the office or hangar for no pay.

I kept my medical and IR current and would fly an hour a month (sometimes two) just to stay in practice. I didn't buy any 206 time or do an instructor rating. The persistence paid off but not before 3 people I trained with had already given up.

Avaitiaon is a marathon not a sprint so stop being in such a rush.
​​​​​

Clearly wasn't the implication hence the use of the phrase "look into" and not "Just become". Quite familiar with the competitive level required to join the Pilot stream in the ADF, not sure why this would preclude it being suggested to anyone looking for career guidance.

I see too many warning signs for any future employers.

Yep, the helicopter job market is heating up. Get the CPL-H, IR-MEH , S92 type rating and move to Perth and you'll be on the employment radar for a co-pilot job. They all start on about $100K/year + super for 28/28 with 42 days annual leave. Not a bad entry level gig for working 20 weeks per year with 32 weeks of paid field/tour/annual leave.

What is the relevance of a PPL-H in all of this?

^^she said, to build her resume^^ (post #76)

Well Petra, I hope that you will set matters straight. You imply by quoting me that I have sent you abusive and insulting personal messages, when I have never messaged you, and would not be so stupid in this litigious age! Take note of what I am saying...
More free advice if you want to make it in aviation: Do not trot out the 'bullying' card every time you cop negative comment. Airline pilots get checked multiple times every year, and in particular, make mistakes in their early years. Most checks draw criticism - usually justified, sometimes not, but you'd be wise to suck it up and learn from it. You may not have had much criticism while you were spending your money down at your ever-so-friendly flying school; probably much praise and many gold stars to stick on the fridge for your good work.
Learn to sift genuine advice based on experience from advice by that same flying school or anyone else with an agenda. For example, what is the relevance of several IR renewals on your resume when you will NOT be considered for an IFR job at your level of experience? Why not save this for when you are in a flying job and better able to afford upgrading qualifications?
PS: I apologise for the ‘scatterbrained’ slur, if you see it as such. The way you have been throwing money at training contrary to good advice suggests ‘impetuous’ or ‘profligate’ is more appropriate.
PPS: I was being serious about drones - they are the future, but that’s a whole other subject...