CPL Graduates... no jobs?
 

Hey,
Just looking to see how many graduates are like me still waiting and seeking that first GA job? Who is in Darwin now just waiting?
I have finished everything and been recently applying for jobs in a Call Centre. Soul destroying given the money and time I've spent on flight training... to go and work in a Call Centre!!
Petra

I’m guessing it’s not as soul destroying as the guys and girls with 10,000 hrs B737 time who are also working in call centres.

^^ This ^^

Id say hang in there. But expand the horizons beyond Darwin. Look at spotting planes on the west coast (they’ll be end of season now but fire up late December/early Jan), station work, Kununurra (again maybe next season), anywhere you can find that has a 172/182/206/210 etc.
Things can, and often do, change quickly. Even in good times it can take a year or more for the first job. It’ll come.

Why would it be any different? Not sure of the relevance to the question.

Posting the obligatory "hang in there, your dream will come true" comment to add to the others.

Is this a wind up?

Jesus.

MCD

I'm a 13000 hour A320 skip, working down on the docks here in New Zealand, as a casual labourer operating diggers and cranes. We've also got an A330 TRE from QR, a Virgin 737 skip, 4 fixed wing CPL graduates, and a rotary guy who lost his job after the White Island fiasco. These are extraordinary times.

Hang in there, but also don't kid yourself that it's gonna be anything other than a LONG wait. Getting the first GA job isn't about who's the best pilot, it's about who's the last one standing and who wants it the most when all the others have quit. You'll suddenly get that golden phone call when you least expect it

Soul destroying eh? I worked in a call centre for 10 years to pay for my licences. There were no loans when I did it. I've got mates that have thousands of hours flying widebodies now working in call centres, their careers severely disrupted or destroyed. Yet strangely enough don't need to post up attention seeking threads whining about their situation - they are just getting on with it.

An all too familiar story these days, a lot of it the legacy of the bull**** training outlets spew out! Pilot shortage, plenty of work, go network.....
A flying career theses days is not a forever gig anymore, best have several other skills to ride the ever changing fragile world of aviation!

15000hr+ 777 captain and twiddling thumbs wondering what the hell to do……..so whilst I have sympathy …….

Boy Petra,
You certainly know how to pick the wrong time and place.
Have you any idea what has happened to the airline industry over the last two years ?

Maybe some perspective..
 

After obtaining my CPL in August 1973 there were no jobs, in those pre-internet days I would go to the Sydney GPO where they had a collection of telephone directories from all over Australia....looked up the Air Charter Yellow Pages and wrote letters to operators all over Australia, I was fortunate when in May 1974 I received a reply from a Central Queensland Charter Company who were after a SE VFR pilot, I had been working as delivery driver for a book publishing company for $60/week and could not believe my luck to secure a job at $100/week, by contrast my wife was a Primary School Teacher at $120/week... be patient and keep trying no matter how frustrating it seems... Good Luck and wishing you a long secure and safe career in aviation.

Crikey. Hang in there. Best words of advice are that Australian Aviation is toxic as heck. Younger the better I’d get out.

If you’re really wondering how many CPL graduates are out there in the ether looking for their first job, my guess would be a lot. The universities are still pumping out sausages in similar numbers to what they were doing pre covid, and instructor rating course also seem to be busy at the moment. Take comfort that a lot of people share your pain and frustration, some just at the beginning like you, some with families, mid way through their careers now with no prospects or qualifications to fall back on.
By the look of your user name I’d guess your mid twenties so still plenty of time to explore some other career options.

As much as everyone would love to provide words of encouragement, right now those words would be hollow. Even in the UK which domestically is functioning in a similar manner to Pre-Covid, British Airways is only operating 21% of Pre-Covid flights. It's going to be a very long path to a full recovery. Any plans to join this profession should currently be on hold for the foreseeable future. It's pointless doing a licence and then coming on here and complaining about how heartbreaking it is to have done the work and now no job.
Something like 50% of qualified and experienced Pilots worldwide are currently not working in the industry.

Crickey guys, I find it really sad that the last 18 months hasn’t helped people develop much empathy for others’ situations. When I finished my training a long time ago the industry was in a protracted downturn, no jobs anywhere, plenty of negative people around ready to flame you. Obviously this situation is even worse but I think if you are determined and persist, network well and try to stay positive you will eventually succeed (might take several years though). Heading overseas is a good option when it becomes available, I did as soon as I could and found plenty of opportunities.

Developing a second career in the meantime would be sound advice though, think about what else interests you and take a look at what opportunities are available. If you have to use the call centre job to pay the bills in the meantime so be it, it won’t be forever.

And good luck to everyone else working menial jobs at the moment, I’m in the same situation as a 16000+hr TRE/TRI.

Go well.

Unless China opens it's doors to its own people again and the cruising industry is restored, that's how it's going to stay too, just like it was 20 years ago.

Unfortunately, as you know, now is not a great time. However there has always been a surplus of pilots to jobs. The coarse I went through had 30+ pilots and only six of them ended up with aviation careers (2 of them had parents in the airlines). Finding the first job needs perseverance and often a large chunk of luck. You have to hang in there and accept there is no easy route.

Tell us more details about the Call Centre job and how to apply.

There will be huge demand in a year to 18 months - barring no post Delta variant wreaking havoc.

Soon after, there will be a pilot shortage the like of which we have never seen before.

There’s always plan b…..
 

15 years ago I had the choice of either following my lifelong dream of being a pilot or opening my own business. I chose the latter and I’m glad that I did. A direct result of that is me now being in a position where I don’t have to work anymore. I built up a business from scratch and sold it ten years later enabling me to do the things that I want to do now not what someone else wants me to do. I could get into flying if I wanted to for a pastime but as I get older it’s not the fast shiny things that get my attention these days, more so the lovely lines of a yacht and cruising along at a more leisurely pace. You need to be a little more situationally aware of your surroundings at the moment and adapt to survive. Get yourself a plan B because there’s a massive line of people in front of you with more experience than you’re likely to gain in a lifetime in the same boat as you looking for a way to put money on the table just to survive. I’m pretty sure a pilot with a poor sense of situation awareness won’t last too long in the wet season up north.

I'm was in the same situation as you. Got my CPL/ME IR a couple of year's ago. My advice would be to get started in another career and fly in your spare time.

I'm now working as a train driver. It's helped me pay off my flight training and save for future flight review's when (hopefully) aviation get's back to where it once was.

If you can spend an entire career, from school to retirement, on flying only - you've either done something right to deserve it or you've been plain lucky. For most pilots it simply doesn't work this way. Your first bout with unemployment might not be your last one. Even when it's all looking nice and stable, another blow might be just around the corner. Think COVID - did anyone expect such a crisis back in January 2020? People were looking forward to a prosperous year, many were amid a job change for something better they had been working hard towards, many were expecting an upgrade - and look what happened. The same goes for 9/11 and pretty much every other crisis in the history of aviation. It was always carnage in a matter of weeks, taking a few years to recover from.

So, if you can afford it, your time waiting for a flying job would be best used developing a second skill set to fall back on in case something crazy happens once again (and it most probably will). Whether you'll learn mining, coding or accounting is up to you. The important bit is that it will allow you a better alternative to the call centre - and will certainly put you in a better position than those many who never learned a second profession, hoping that things would never go sideways for them in aviation.

^^what they said^^

Go find something else productive to do.

Look, I digress - the point I wanted to make is that from little things big things grow. Provided it's not a serious mental disorder, hard times will build hard people. The job search is half the fun. If you're just handed your first job (and I've met people who have!) you don't appreciate what you're doing as much. If you're a young person, the top end is a great place to sit around for a year or so.

Does CASA release the number of licences (Student, Commercial, Instrument Ratings etc) being handed out?
There "appears" to be hundreds being pumped out through Vet-Fee and Fee-Help.all around the country. Be interesting to see the real numbers.

Exactly what I am doing. And many others I know.
So did we work to deserve it, or were we just plain lucky? Who decides?
It certainly didn’t fall into my lap!

Lots of people spend their whole life in just one career.

Perseverance and resilience. In the meantime, find another job.

Small sample but, the pilots I know (or know of) that have remained employed as ‘high’ income pilots have all had the similar paths.

One career - yes.
One employer - no.
One type of flying - no.
One location - no (multiple places in Australia, and overseas)
​​​
Follow your passion but being a good pilot needs to be combined with a willingness to learn, hard work, and being prepared for significant change.

You my friend are destined for greatness. A tip though, be careful who you share your story with in the industry, they are so fickle and competitive, it will somehow make you less worthy.

I doubt it will be quite like you say, well there might be a shortage of type rated jet pilots who are also current.

There will be no shortage of CPL graduates looking for work. If anything, this will be worse than it's ever been. All the graduates that the sausage factories/universities are pumping out every year, will still be looking for entry level charter/instructor jobs only there will be 3+ years worth of them. The ones who got their qualifications at the beginning of the COVID disaster will be in a far worse position because they will not be very current unless they have spent a lot of extra money keeping hours up and ratings current.

I am in the above lousy situation, only I am in my early 30s with shocking timing twice. Finished my CPL during the global financial crisis so was unable to find charter work at the time so decided to do 'menial work' for a few years to keep the money coming in. Became a bit complacent and that became 10 years so decided at the end of 2019 that it was time to have another go because instructors were in huge demand so left what was a stable and relatively well paid job to do my instructor rating only for COVID to hit half way through, when most flying schools started laying off huge numbers of their instructors.

I cannot believe that even in the current climate, many sausage factories have instructor courses that are full. Obviously we have VET fee help to thank for this. I paid for my instructor rating outright, and sure wouldn't have spent money on it had I known what was coming.

Amazing how easy it is to sell a dream to suckers even with huge debt involved, with the "no consequences" carrot of not having to pay anything back until you are earning a certain amount.

I'm not expecting sympathy, I took risks at the wrong times and have to be responsible that they didn't pay off. Hoping that things pick up a bit in the next few years and I'll be able to have another crack.

Checking in for the same, but I acknowledge the incredible luck that I've had, both with my timing and the choices I've made so far.

So I'm trying to start my way into real estate. Right now I expect to continue life with this prosperous flying career for the next 35 years. It would be nice to have a backup.

Not sure what else to do! I've already spent time in Broome and Alice before returning to Melbourne and completed the FIR (last month). I've now topped up C206 time (total of 23 hours). I took out a personal loan for the instructor rating and finished it and was told nobody is being offered a job. Managed to add $21k to my overall debt accumulated from all of this training, plus a personal loan to cover C206 time. I've also finished the JPA course and have an IPC coming up in a few months which I'll do. So I understand that so many pilots have lost their jobs but I feel really disheartened because people like me have not even had a chance. I finished the CPL, MEIR courses under VET (which cost alot of money), plus the 2 personal loans and a total debt of just over $100k. The personal loans I need to start paying back at $830 a month. So I'll need to work in a call centre to start paying off loans for a career that will probably never happen.

Plenty of stood down and out of work pilots here. This video is for OP:

You should contact the GA Herald about your plight, I think they might have a contact at Uppercumbucca Airlines

The good news is that you don't go to jail these days for not being able to pay your debt. The other good news is that no one can take your Pilot's licence away.
I would encourage you to discuss your plight with your banks. You can only pay them what you can afford.

Z_R has a point - and I tried to make the same last time you complained about this, petra...You're trying to get a toe-hold in an industry that has many hundreds, if not thousands of pilots who are out of work, with qualifications, experience and type ratings far above what you can offer. It ain't gonna work unless you get (extraordinarily) lucky. You need to cut your losses for now.

You can continue to throw good money after bad and hope you can get a flying job to start paying off your loans, or you can take charge of your future, get a decent paying job on a decent, if not a good roster, and ensure you can start paying them off. It doesn't have to be a powder-monkey's job, although you do get to make things go bang! in that role, there are a number of entry-level jobs with companies like WorkPac, Programmed etc that pay fairly well, and can lead to a FT gig on a 2/2 roster if you decide to fly part time.

Talking to a mate at a company with big robot trains filled with dirt, they're after Autonomous Response Assistants, basically a taxi driver for their actual Driver's to go out and Ctrl-Alt-Del the robot when it has a dummy-spit. They're advertising right now, 2/2, FIFO out of Perth. It's listed at $37.43/Hr (not sure if that's total, base, includes Super or not, but you'll be doing a 168Hr FN, so that's over $80K a year, and you won't pay for your tucker on site, so that's 6 months of food/fuel/entertainment savings every year. And there's a good chance that'll lead to a FT role with said company with the big robot trains over time, if that's your thing.

I gave professional flying away many years ago, and now do a 2 on/4 off part time roster that still pays well over $100K, so I built an RV that fly for fun now. Much more enjoyable, and I don't have to deal with airport security every day....

^^^^THIS^^^^

Get a good job then fly for fun on your own terms.

Petra,

I've been casually following your story back from your previous posts and I feel for your situation, having been in it myself three years ago. After finishing a CPL(H), spending what could have been a deposit for a house and being unable to find any real flying work after a year of making the rounds (and spending even more money to do it), reality begins to hit you hard. It's humiliating and bitterly disappointing. As much as we tell ourselves at the beginning that we are prepared to do whatever it takes for however long it takes to get that first job, at some point it becomes impossible to keep going unless you already have money to burn. Continuing to push on amid mounting debt, crappy jobs and near-zero paid flying prospects will eventually land you in a very bad place, both mentally and financially.

I agree with the majority of the responses here. You should put the dream on hold temporarily and find other work. Focus on paying off debt and hopefully build up some savings. The kind of loan repayments you have are not insignificant, and being unable to repay them could make it very hard for you to obtain credit in the future. By all means maintain your contacts in the flying world and keep an eye out for opportunities, but accept that it might still take a few years to get the flying job you want, if indeed you still want it at that point.

Obtaining a commercial pilot's licence is not easy. It involves a great deal of responsibility, a cool head, quick (potentially life-or-death) decision making and an ability to understand and follow a myriad of complex procedures, rules and regulations. With a bit of luck and some savvy job interview skills, you can leverage this proven ability to obtain a job that is perhaps more rewarding than working in a call centre. I was lucky enough to find a management position which I love, and have since reevaluated my career priorities. I accept that I will probably never make use of my expensive CPL. It was a hard pill to swallow, but ultimately I am much happier for it. Nevertheless, getting a pilot's licence was incredibly fun and rewarding and I do not regret it one bit.

It's true that there are now thousands of pilots out of work, fresh graduates and experienced captains alike. Many of them in situations just as unfortunate as yours or worse. I don't think you deserve the negativity you've been receiving on this forum, though. You are doing the right thing by asking for advice and it's clear you're prepared to put the work in and make big sacrifices. Your timing has been horrible I'll admit, but that's through no fault of your own. I do believe that eventually there will be a sharp increase in the demand for travel, and therefore pilots. For example: until Delta screwed us over, Jetstar was forecasting domestic travel to exceed pre-covid levels as early as December 2021. Whether we somehow get Covid under control or simply learn to live with it, the need for travel will return.

Keep being resilient, look after yourself and eventually good things will come. Best of luck to you.

Sounds like an excellent plan. Others here have also offered some very sound advice. Why you spent good money on 23 hours of C206 time - which is basically worthless - when you have so much debt seems very odd to me. If the call center is your calling be good at it, or whatever else you choose to do. But a flying job is way over the horizon and just not going to happen for you in the prevailing industry environment.