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-   -   Forced Landing on Collaroy Beach NSW (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/640682-forced-landing-collaroy-beach-nsw.html)

jportzer 26th May 2021 07:10

Forced Landing on Collaroy Beach NSW
 
Not sure if newsworthy, looks like a textbook forced landing, so good work to the pilot:
ABC News: Pilot makes emergency landing on Sydney's Collaroy Beach

mcoates 26th May 2021 08:25

3 people in a 2 seat aircraft... Not a good idea

The Golden Rivet 26th May 2021 08:43


Originally Posted by mcoates (Post 11051598)
3 people in a 2 seat aircraft... Not a good idea

always wanted to know which text book they referred too?

Jnr380 26th May 2021 09:11


Originally Posted by mcoates (Post 11051598)
3 people in a 2 seat aircraft... Not a good idea

Canít you have a baby on your lap? I always thought you can up to the age of 2

wombat watcher 26th May 2021 09:24


Originally Posted by mcoates (Post 11051598)
3 people in a 2 seat aircraft... Not a good idea

you need to get back in your box. It was a very young baby.

mcoates 26th May 2021 09:27

Check the CAO's.... LSA is a 2 seat aircraft, not a 3-seater. No, you can't have a baby/child on your lap, restrained or otherwise.

Unborn, yes but once delivered absolutely NO

Stikman 26th May 2021 09:28


Originally Posted by wombat watcher (Post 11051644)
you need to get back in your box. It was a very young baby.

Look at the rego....it's an RA-Aus aircraft. No more than 1 pax allowed.

The Bullwinkle 26th May 2021 11:13


Originally Posted by Stikman (Post 11051648)
Look at the rego....it's an RA-Aus aircraft. No more than 1 pax allowed.

And Iíd say thatís probably why they were reluctant to be interviewed.
Absolutely in contravention to the Regs.

junior.VH-LFA 26th May 2021 12:32

Itís honestly wild to me that anyone would fly with a young child unrestrained.

Legal or not, it defies common sense.

FlexibleResponse 26th May 2021 14:15

My goodness...a severe outbreak of wokeness!

slacktide 26th May 2021 19:35


Originally Posted by junior.VH-LFA (Post 11051781)
Itís honestly wild to me that anyone would fly with a young child unrestrained.

I see no indication that the child was unrestrained. Do you know something that the rest of us don't? My younger brother spent many,many hours restrained in a child seat that was strapped into the baggage compartment of a Piper Arrow, effectively turning it into a illegal 5-seat aircraft. It was the 1970's, nobody cared.

Squawk7700 26th May 2021 20:39


Originally Posted by slacktide (Post 11051980)
I see no indication that the child was unrestrained. Do you know something that the rest of us don't? My younger brother spent many,many hours restrained in a child seat that was strapped into the baggage compartment of a Piper Arrow, effectively turning it into a illegal 5-seat aircraft. It was the 1970's, nobody cared.

OMG the humanity. I hope your brother survived with no long lasting effects from such a traumatic experience !! A Piper aircraft, eew! :-)

KRviator 27th May 2021 02:42


Originally Posted by Stikman (Post 11051648)
Look at the rego....it's an RA-Aus aircraft. No more than 1 pax allowed.

You sure about that? CAO95.55 says "One-place" or "Two place". Nothing about the amount of people on board. You'll also find their Ops Manual refers to "the carriage of passengers in a recreational aircraft", not "carriage of a passenger"...

mcoates 27th May 2021 04:27

as you know we operate under an exemption to the civil aviation order and regulations of 1998 and as amended thereafter. The exemption is known as 95.55 and this allows recreational aircraft to operate under this exemption.

It is very clear from the start, 1.1 that "this order applies to a single-place or a 2 Place aeroplane, other than a weight shift controlled aeroplane or a powered parachute."

That's it, if it is registered with the RA-Aus, it is not a weight shift controlled aeroplane or a powered parachute then the exemptions permitted which allow it to fly only apply to a single place or a 2 Place aeroplane.

This is straight from the legislation.

there is a section on interpretations of the order which give explanations about different things and it does not include anything to do with people because it is already identified are not subject to interpretation when you refer to section 1.1

It also refers you under regulation 200.025 of CASR paragraph 20AB (1) (a) saying that you must also operate under "the sport aviation bodies operations manual"

This also As a limit of 2 seats which therefore means 2 people maximum

KRviator 27th May 2021 04:46


Originally Posted by mcoates (Post 11052154)
as you know we operate under an exemption to the civil aviation order and regulations of 1998 and as amended thereafter. The exemption is known as 95.55 and this allows recreational aircraft to operate under this exemption.

It is very clear from the start, 1.1 that "this order applies to a single-place or a 2 Place aeroplane, other than a weight shift controlled aeroplane or a powered parachute."

That's it, if it is registered with the RA-Aus, it is not a weight shift controlled aeroplane or a powered parachute then the exemptions permitted which allow it to fly only apply to a single place or a 2 Place aeroplane.

This is straight from the legislation.

there is a section on interpretations of the order which give explanations about different things and it does not include anything to do with people because it is already identified are not subject to interpretation when you refer to section 1.1

It also refers you under regulation 200.025 of CASR paragraph 20AB (1) (a) saying that you must also operate under "the sport aviation bodies operations manual"

This also As a limit of 2 seats which therefore means 2 people maximum

Two seat's does not mean two people... You can carry an infant on your lap - sans seatbelt too - and you can legally have 2 kids share a seat if they're not over 77Kg - which is how you can get 5 people into a 172. The interesting thing about the relevant CAO, being CAO20.16.3, is it says 2 seaters can have 1 excess passenger - and it applies to all Australian registered aircraft. Not just those used for hire or reward.

While RAAus ops are exempted from pretty much all the CASR's, there's only a handful of the CAR's that they're exempt from, however, they are not exempt from complying with the CAO's, so CAO20.16.3 would apply.

If anyone can show me the RAAus Ops Manual chapter that says you must only carry one passenger, I'll happily admit I'm wrong. But I'm pretty sure you won't...

Ia8825 27th May 2021 04:58

M Coates, Well very interesting that youíre pretending to know about several rules which you clearly have no idea about in reality. Firstly, CAO 95.55 had been superseded by RA AUS becoming a part 149 organisation, hence why if you look it up on the com law website it will show as repealed in January this year. So any reference you make to that is now irrelevant. So I guess you donít know what youíre talking about.

Despite what many in RA AUS think, they are not exempt from all CARS/CAOS, only certain ones which relate to things like licences, aircraft certification etc. All other regulations still apply, and in this case that would include CAO 20.16, which will become relevant in a minute. Under part 141 RA AUS aircraft are still limited to a maximum of 2 seats. However under CAO 20.16 2 seats doesnít mean a maximum of 2 people. An infant can, under the provisions of CAO 20.16, fly without needing a seat, as appears to have occurred in this situation. Now as you validly pointed out the CASR state that you must operate under the governing bodies operations manual. And given you clearly know all the rules so well, Iím guessing you know that the RA AUS ops manual states under section 2.01 (4) ďthat in order to carry passengers the pilot must have a passenger carrying endorsementĒ. Given it is referring to passengers in the plural I think itís reasonable to assume they are allowing for the provisions of CAO 20.16.

So as wombat watcher said, get back in your box.

mcoates 27th May 2021 04:59

No you cant... not in and recreational aircraft.

Commercial aircraft have different rules.... some people just don't get it and I'm glad that I'm not flying anywhere near you if your understanding of the regulations are so poor.

it's in the CAO's, it is not in the RA-Aus technical manual as such because the CAO's define how many people can actually be in an RA-Aus registered aircraft and that is 2 people, no babies sitting on laps, no children in multiples in one adult seat etc... geeez

Ia8825 27th May 2021 05:00


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 11052161)
Two seat's does not mean two people... You can carry an infant on your lap - sans seatbelt too - and you can legally have 2 kids share a seat if they're not over 77Kg - which is how you can get 5 people into a 172. The interesting thing about the relevant CAO, being CAO20.16.3, is it says 2 seaters can have 1 excess passenger - and it applies to all Australian registered aircraft. Not just those used for hire or reward.

While RAAus ops are exempted from pretty much all the CASR's, there's only a handful of the CAR's that they're exempt from, however, they are not exempt from complying with the CAO's, so CAO20.16.3 would apply.

If anyone can show me the RAAus Ops Manual chapter that says you must only carry one passenger, I'll happily admit I'm wrong. But I'm pretty sure you won't...

100% nailed it.

Ia8825 27th May 2021 05:05


Originally Posted by mcoates (Post 11052169)
No you cant... not in and recreational aircraft.

Commercial aircraft have different rules.... some people just don't get it and I'm glad that I'm not flying anywhere near you if your understanding of the regulations are so poor.

it's in the CAO's, it is not in the RA-Aus technical manual as such because the CAO's define how many people can actually be in an RA-Aus registered aircraft and that is 2 people, no babies sitting on laps, no children in multiples in one adult seat etc... geeez

You donít know the rules or the ops manual as well as you think you do. Now shush

KRviator 27th May 2021 05:09


Originally Posted by mcoates (Post 11052169)
it's in the CAO's, it is not in the RA-Aus technical manual as such because the CAO's define how many people can actually be in an RA-Aus registered aircraft and that is 2 people,

Show me.

And a few more characters to keep Prune happy.


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