Tricks of the trade for flying tailwheel?
 

Gday all,

Hope you are all well,

I have recently booked myself in for a Tailwheel endorsement down at Tyabb, and am wondering if anyone has any tips for a bloke with limited to no experience in flying a taildragger.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,

Mach 1

Yep. Why not let the person doing your endorsement provide the tips?

Yeah. Well I could, but I thought it might be a bit more beneficial to ask some questions here to get my head around it before I embarrass myself.

- keep it straight on the takeoff and landing roll. Best to overcontrol than let it get away.
- keep off the brakes during takeoff / landing roll.
- if you think you’ve achieved the three point attitude on landing, go a bit further. Touching down mains first during a three point landing will result in a bounce, touching tailwheel first won’t.
- 2 bounces then go-around, don’t wait to be told.
- after touchdown, keep the stick easing back until you hit the stop and hold it there.
- don’t look inside or at taxiway exits during the landing roll until you’re at taxi speed. That includes resetting flaps / trim.

these notes aren’t too bad.

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_poli...5_afh_ch13.pdf

what type will you be flying?

When I did my tailwheel conversion I was told it would help to take tap dancing lessons ! I got the point.

Thanks for those tips! trying my hand in a decathlon, and did some aerobatics in it last year (about 5 hours) but never landed or took it off, only taxied and flew the thing upside down a bit, but I have caught the bug and am chomping at the bit to fly it!

Shame I cant tap dance! ive been told to "KEEP IT STRAIGHT" ill keep this in mind!

Tailwheel Issues
 

Very much a 'type' issue and how good your type checker is.
However there are a couple or things you can do to be ahead of the system.
Know how 'your' actual tail wheel/skid should work.
In the case of a TW there are several types which run from fully castoring to lockable, and the common spring connected types with a self center bias**.
In the case of a skid some are fixed and some steerable.
If you understand the way the TW 'should' work it helps.
X winds are more of an issue with a TW so be aware of this and the limitations.
Grass surfaces are a bit more TW friendly, but if you are faced with a tarmac situation be very aware of an out of wind situation and/or a zero wind as any departure from the norm will be more 'lively' and faster. Be Aware, Anticipate, and have sensible limits whilst you build EXPERIENCE which is the real teacher.
** These are common on lots of TW machines, but need to be correctly set up as they involve springs and 'break out' systems. your local engineer can explain how it works, but make sure the springs are connected when its wheeled out.

Just enjoy it. Flying tailwheel is exactly the same as what you know. The takeoff and especially landing will certainly make you use the rudders! As before, stay off the brakes and stall it onto the runway.

So using some nous, trying to get a "bigger picture" by asking on a website for thoughts/input from people who, you know, well....actually have experience and might contribute...is a bad thing??

Strange concept that I'll fight to the grave! Against increasingly oppressive odds so it seems! :p

Cheers

No big deal, flying conventional U/C machines are just learning another skill. The 'bogey-man' mentality is alive and well out there when it comes to the third wheel in the correct location. Enjoy the ride, the experience will make you a better handling pilot but don't over think it! -)

Blimey! When I learnt to fly, there was no such thing as a "Tailwheel conversion". With the possible exception of the Piper Tri-Pacer, everything was tailwheel, even the the twin I did my multi on. Fings is different now, it seems.

You will no doubt be briefed "when in doubt - go around" Well that all depends if you are talking about approaching to land too high. Then you have no choice but to go-around using the correct go-around procedure for the aircraft type. The POH should tell you the procedure because a specific flap retraction sequence may come into it.
.
if you happen to bounce on landing then all you do is apply a little power and ease the aircraft down and land ahead as long as you have enough room. . It's called "cushioning" the bounce.

Ask the instructor to demonstrate how to land from a bounce. It is perfectly safe providing you use good airmanship and good judgement. If he refuses to do so he has probably never done it himself. He shouldn't be an instructor in that case

When you put the nose down on takeoff remember that the prop is a gyro and will go left or right depending on the machine.

Don't land too fast in a supercub or you will ground loop.

Phil

Pedal like a bastard and pull the stick into your belly as soon as you touch down (in a three-point landing), and pedal like a bastard. Tap-tap, tap-tap on the pedals. Don't put in a bootfull of rudder and then leave it there or you'll just create the opposite problem to what you had; put it in and then take it off. Tap-tap, tap-tap.

Don't let it get away from you, sort out any deviations immediately, be quick and sharp on the pedals. I always reckon that a pilot has got the hang of tail draggers when he knows what the aeroplane is about to do and stops it before it does it.

In the air you just need to get used to co-ordinating turns with some rudder, the differences are all on the ground. It's not magic, and it's not the stuff of supermen. Stay both relaxed and alert and just make sure you enjoy yourself.

Also think about taxiing - you don't have a good view over the front so have a clear idea of where you are going before takeoff and after landing

Just remember it is UNSTABLE on the ground and you only have limited forward vision

Start the take off roll with the stick well forward to get the tail up early, as it comes up and the aircraft speeds up ease off to avoid going nose down. When you reach the stall speed for your weight and flap setting add 5 kts, then get off the ground cleanly into a positive climb. You don't want to be mushing along, barely flying, maybe bouncing a bit, which is what happens if you heave it off before it can fly nicely.

Caution; that worked for me with the Austers I learned on, and later a Prentice, others may be different.

Become au fait with precession (see peco above) and how to handle crosswinds.

If you want to fly it on to a wheelie, use a trickle of power. For a 3-point landing (for proper pilots) plan your approach so that you can chop the power at 500 ft and glide from there to your aiming point. Trying to use power, ie dragging it in on the prop, for a 3-point landing is a recipe for disaster. Especially if the engine quits at the wrong moment. Indeed, use every landing as a forced landing practice.

When you want to show off, execute your approach in a series of sideslips, or curving in on a sideslip, so that you can keep an eye on where you're going. Either way the sideslip should terminate low enough to straighten out and touchdown as soon as the aircraft is straight. OK, that's for later after a bit of practice!

Take off's are fairly straight forward, once you've got the hang of keeping the nose pointed straight down the runway, it's muscle memory and after a few goes you'll put in the right amount of boot to keep her straight.

Landings are slightly different, tail draggers will ground loop if you don't stay ahead of the plane. Tap dancing is a good description, bear in mind you won't have power so less rudder authority, you may need full rudder to stop incipient swings. Hand on the throttle to give more authority to the rudder if needed (or to go around if you're not comfortable).
Control your speed as always, don't come in hot and wheel it on, especially with a cross wind component. Try and stall it on with stick right back as you land, any energy you lose before landing is a bonus,

Agree with previous comments about grass being kinder than tarmac, tarmac with a cross wind component can be challenging, my experience is Piper Super cub and Auster Autocrat, other types may differ.

M1Muppet, the UK's Aircraft Accident Investigation Board (AAIB) knew you would be asking this question, and so very thoughtfully published the results of an inquiry into a Hawker Hurricane accident in their November accident bulletin. Apart from the obvious benefit of understanding how other people got into accident or incident scenarios, there is a great summary on some of the factors behind ground looping and dealing with a crosswind in a tail dragger. Well worth a read, and it will encourage you to find out where your tail dragger's C of G sits!

https://assets.publishing.service.go...HRLI_11-20.pdf

Taxiing on the ground - the wing is sitting at a high angle of attack and so is more susceptible to gusts than a nose gear aircraft. You should "fly" the stick when taxiing to avoid the wind lifting that wing.

Stick back and aileron into into wind when the wind is from the front.
Wind "blows the stick away from you" when it's from the back - i.e. Wind from the back, right quarter - stick forward and left.

As you turn left and right taxiing about, you thus also move the stick about for each new wind direction, hence "flying the stick" while taxiing, as well as thinking about your feet!

I only did mine a couple of years ago.... love it, you’ll throughly enjoy it!

The lasting ‘top tips’ from my instructor were ‘Fly it to the hanger’ & ‘don’t forget the basics’ (aileron into wind, look out the window & pick an aiming point at end of runway/strip to nail & keep straight etc)

Enjoy, opens up a whole new world!

That nosewheel conversion! Full of new hazards, wheelbarrowing, nosewheel landings, none of which could ever happen to you with a conventional undercarriage!

Thanks for posting the question and thanks to person posting FAA link. I am in similar situation so good to read practical advices.

There is a local page with some regulations info about tailwheel endorsement.

Google Ozaeros tailwheel

There's always one....cut a little slack

What topic are you most interested in ?
Which type will you fly ?

I bought an entire book on the subject.
The one thing you have to remember from this book is :
An taildragger on the ground is mechanically unstable (on the yaw axis). You have to control this unstability in two ways :
- Try to minimize it (apply force on the tail)
- Most importantly, always be in control of the aircraft, have a faster than light look and correct any deviation before they have any time to develop. This may require large control inputs, but which always have to be very precisely done.
You really cannot give the deviation any time.
When first given this advice, I wondered why this would not favor a bounce.
I concluded that the energy level of the aircraft was degraded by the first touchdown, and that the pulling back would also increase drag because the angle of attack would increase above the best lift to drag ratio angle of attack.

Thanks all for the great information, means a lot to me all the help thats been given! ill let you all know how it goes!

In times gone by, I conducted a fair bit of training on TW types. One sequence that I found good especially for those that were having trouble with rudder control and cross winds was to have them "fly" the aircraft along the runway and put one wheel on the ground for a bit, then lift it up and put the other wheel down, then climb away and do it again a few more times. As the instructor you had to be right with it, but for the student it was an excellent sequence for learning control and rudder use. Enjoy!

Someone mentioned about starting your take of roll with the stick a lot fwd, do NOT do this! Full back upon application of power then once rolling ease fwd to raise the tail to approx level flight. Applying lots of power whilst holding fwd stick is asking for trouble!

Have fun and let us know how it goes! You got some good discussion going here.

Originally Posted by Kemble Pitts
"pull the stick into your belly as soon as you touch down (in a three-point landing)"
Kemble said after touchdown, so with wheels on the ground and the angle of attack won't change.

I have precisely 1 hour in a 170 so here's the sum total of my taildragger experience.

After about 2 takeoffs I was able to perform the takeoff totally unassisted, yes it feels odd to push the stick forward to lift the tail but that's really the only thing that felt new to me, the rest seemed quite natural to this fairly low hour nosewheel pilot.
Landings, well after an hour of circuits I was able to three point it on the runway but then my instructor had to take over each time. Why? My lazy feet. The 170 especially likes to ground loop (even my instructor admitted it would get away even from him from time to time). I think the tap dancing analogy is apt. Be prepared to use your feet, and its the opposite to your takeoff, as you slow down you need to put in more rudder to make corrections and it was this progressive requirement that defeated me.

Good luck!

Forward vision during taxi could be limited on some TW types and in those cases there may be specific taxi procedures to allow for obstruction of view by the engine.

There could be a rudder trim consideration for take-off, due to gyroscopic turning force, when the tail is raised. An unhelpful crosswind needs consideration before rolling.

Be mightily surprised if the OP is taught TW in a type with rudder trim, that's normally reserved for higher powered hardware.

The mighty Supercub I learned on didn't have rudder trim and that's 150hp in a relatively light airframe, didn't miss it and certainly didn't need it.

Find a long, wide and deserted stretch of road. Try driving your car at speed in reverse gear, this will give you a taste of tailwheel flying. Learn about the term "ground loop", some types are more forgiving than others. Do it in a Piper Cub and you will be embarrassed, do it in a Cessna 185 and you will likely damage the aircraft.

You might find this useful:

https://www.academia.edu/39028030/Th...ldragger_Pilot

The best tip I can give you is that with the CofG aft of the mainwheels the rear end is constantly trying to overtake the front end. Therefore the take-off starts as soon as you release the brakes to taxi, and the landing isn't over until they are set again. Don't overthink things just look out of the window, be ready for a swing, and react to what you see!

Neither did the Citabria in which I I did my TW endorsement. And that thing was twitchy!!

The Pawnee doesn't have rudder trim either, but I sometimes wish it did!!:ugh::=

PtP; 1400+hrs Glider towing in Pawnees.

IMHO: During takeoff and landing, keep your eyes focused on the far end of the runway and learn the visual height cues provided by your peripheral vision. Looking at the far end of the runway will give you the best indication of any drift or misalignment. In time, you react to that picture without thinking.Try to become familiar with where all your actions are required without looking down. Do not look down, the view will not be the same when you look back up. With longer fuselage aircraft like the 185, you cannot let them get out of line, as they are pretty much unrecoverable once they get past a certain point and that point is very early.
make sure your seating position allows you to input full rudder without accidentally applying brakes. This can be an issue in 180/185’s if you insist on winding your seat up so you can see over the dash.
in aircraft with toe brakes, don’t put your whole foot up on the pedals, only the balls. You should able to operate brakes more progressively with your toes. Suitable soft shoes until you get comfortable with the whole process.

cheers,
185skywagon.

I was told : in case of small bounce, pull the stick.
(In case of large bounce, go around, obviously)

I'm the someone, and I can only plead that it was all quite some time ago. Absolutely right, if you open up to take-off power with the stick well forward you risk putting the prop into the ground. I can't imagine why I wrote that.....Thank the Lord that another someone put it right.

I do remember a trick with the Austers, when pointing more or less directly into a decent breeze for take-off. We would keep the brakes on, open up full power (yes, stick held back) then carefully raise the tail before releasing the brake. This would shorten the take-off run. But it was more an exhibition than useful, as in the same conditions you would get the tail up in a very short distance anyway.

I can't resist showing this pic of the Auster I did my first solo in, heading for what looks like a nice 3-pointer (so long as the elevator is well up at the moment of touchdown) but not with me in it. I wonder if it is still flying?

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....5d7e7eac8f.jpg