How do you keep pushing?
 

General Aviation. The missed birthdays. Missed weddings. Missed funerals. Missed Christmases. The failed relationships due to long distance. The missing my siblings' kids grow up. The putting off of having a family of my own. The crappy share-houses. The below-award conditions. The sacrifices we all make are really starting to get to me on a mental level, to the point where I struggle to see how it is even worth it any more.

Being at the mercy the employer, with the attitude of, "from xx:xx AM - xx:xx PM, we own your arse. Another flight's just come in and if your duty says you can do it then you'll f@#*ing do it, we don't care if you've just done an IPC and have been awake since 03:45am". Having to be ready to bend over and take it whenever we're told by people with less than a high school education, and then be grateful for the privilege, smile and say, "Thank you may I please have another". The not knowing what hours you'll be working from one day to the next, destroying any chance of having any sort of routine in your life. Which then leads to the sleep deprivation. Going to bed and waking up at all different times every single day, decimating any remnant of a healthy sleeping pattern. This takes a mental toll. But don't you dare say you can't fly due to fatigue. This is what you signed up for. So get back out on the tarmac and make sure you smile for the f%&*ing customer on your way past.

After four years of slogging away in GA, I've hit a wall and I don't know if I want to be a part of this profession anymore. Four years may not be much, and we did know what we were signing up for (to a point), but we also didn't think we'd be signing up for a decade+ of it. And I have nearly 2500TT and 1000 multi under me, I can't even begin to fathom the long road ahead for someone just starting out.

I know this probably comes off as ungrateful and I don't wish to insult anyone in a time of worldwide lay-offs and redundancies, but please save your "pull your head out of your arse" comments. I'm not just here to have a whinge, I just don't know if I have it in me to keep going.

I've been lucky enough to be one of the ones in GA who have come through this relatively unscathed so far. In a time where we were all experiencing rapid progression, covid has stopped us all in our tracks and blown out our timeline from 2-4 years in GA to possibly 10+, and I don't believe that to be an exaggeration.

"Well you've never experienced a downturn so get used to it". True, but this is like no other downturn before it. If anything I'd argue people are underestimating how long it's going to take before all the senior guys in GA that were ready to move on see any light at the end of the tunnel. I think the ones that are underestimating it are lying to themselves, because what other option is there. To accept that your career will now stagnate for the next several years whilst you're stuck on the bottom rung is a tough pill to swallow.

On top of all of that, I just don't love the flying like I used to. It doesn't put a smile on my face any more. There's no pride in your work at this level. It has become just a job way quicker than I ever thought it would. I'm starting to dread getting out of bed, wondering what flavour of **** I'm going to get served up today.

"Well at least you're flying you ungrateful prick". At what cost, though. Because right now it's feeling like it's at the price of my mental health and well-being. If I could be sure that I would look back in ten years and still think all those years spent away from loved ones and being treated like dirt was all worth it, then I'd push on. But I don't know that I will. Staring down the barrel of potentially many more years of these sacrifices is soul-destroying. I Guess as I get older I'm starting to see what's more important.

How do you keep pushing when you don't even know what you're working towards any more?

Well, going from the known to the unknown is always a hard thing, especially in the example of going from flying for a job to something completly different. Ive had two large-ish career changes and the lesson is the punishing drop in renumeration initially. However, taking what you know and are good at, and then building upon that may just give you a leg-up into another element of your original chosen carrer path. Remember when you were in flight training and optimistic? Here is an example job recently released at AMSA, its got some fairly decent requirements but its more about the concept of where or what you could potentially find yourself heading into, in the near future.

https://www.seek.com.au/job/50517926...1-0eed1786b96d

The operational environment, as opposed to the business environment (acheiving the mission vs making money for somebody else) has stark differences and may be of intrest to you. I mean, it must be healthy to be interested in your work- right?
Ive got a couple of mates that ended up in rotary wing SAR and have always seemed to be pretty happy with what they do. I suppose thats because they are helping people who are having a really bad day.

You forgot to add the romance and prestige of the profession and not to mention your eye watering high salary! :) and flying well maintained brand new aircraft is what really keeps you motivated. :):)

Yours is a path well trodden. On a serious note, now is a good time exit the industry for 4-6 years. Go to Uni, do a useful STEM degree which promises good employment prospects. Graduate and try working in a different career - you may love it or like me you may hate it and go back to flying all the richer for that experience. In 4-6 years the hiring boom should resume.

Do something positive, burning holes in the sky while accumulating another couple of thousand hours isn’t going to change your employment prospects.

plotplot,
That’s the Aviation Industry for you. (And many others).
Maybe a 9-5 office job would be more suitable? Just saying.

Well maybe just don't say next time. Your underlying tone of "suck it up princess" adds nothing.

No. Just pointing out it’s not just the domain of aviation with those conditions.
If it’s not something you enjoy, then why do it?

STEM, law, ongoing, programming. What a waste of time! All you are doing is setting yourself up to be another employee. Do you think engineers accountants and lawyers don’t get handed the same #a$@% sandwiches by their employers?

Invest in learning a trade or become an intern and learn business skills like property development. Stay away from “professions” they are a waste of time as far as satisfaction is concerned. Learn to do something nobody else can do is a better proposition.

Fair enough. Sorry.

PlotPlot, don't be put off. Its definitely a s#it sandwich, but have a think about why you came into the industry and what you hoped to get out of it.

Are you prepared to adjust the original goal (and timeline) now the rose coloured glasses are off? Eating a s#it sandwich is like eating an elephant, just take one manageable bite at a time. It can be done, but its entirely your call.

I wish you well.

You will spend an enormous amount of your life at work, if you enjoy it then you have hit at least a portion of the motherlode. If you don't enjoy your work then it is definitely worth considering whether it is the right job for you.

If you can (fairly) comfortably admit that your mental health is suffering then I’d question whether you should seek alternative employment. Not easy in these current times but you yourself, and those who love you, are more important than any job.

Well here's some people reskilling in the interim. https://www.queenslandcountrylife.co...field/?cs=4713

You are in the wrong occupation because those problems aren’t limited to GA.

Reality vs flying school brochure vs public perception.

If you think getting into a airline means steady hours, good roster, home for special events, easy relationships, bankers hours, fast progression, floating around the world, ops managers / company not pressuring you... you are wrong

this.

Sounds to me like you've answered your own question already. If you think you're going to find inspiration to "keep pushing" from comments on an internet forum I think you are sorely mistaken. When you weigh up all the bull**** you have to put up with for this career,
if you don't still sit there every now and again with a smile on your face and think to yourself "this is the best job in the world", then i'd say it's time to move on. Life's too short to be that miserable.

Not advice just a few thoughts.

There’s never been a better time to leave Aviation. If you’re not happy in the seat you’re in now you certainly won’t be happy there in 5 years.
People come back to Aviation after extended breaks regularly so although not easy if one is to find themselves with a burning desire to return in good times it is possible, on the other hand people leave the industry regularly to find that in-fact the grass can be greener on the other side.

Don’t underestimate the importance of time with family, friends and a predictable lifestyle. For me personally, once it did become a job, the importance moved from gaining experience/progression/finical gain to improving the quality of the job, sometimes they were the same thing sometimes they weren’t.

Personal circumstances will dictate how people handle the next few years, if you’re still in the bottom of GA ‘living the dream’ and you’re not in your early 20s it could be worthwhile walking away but, sitting in a single pilot TP in your 30’s might not be too bad, there’s no right or wrong answer to this, you may just have had a gut full of living in the locations available outside of the airlines and want to improve your lifestyle.
For those that are ‘hating it’, I wouldn’t hold on to hard as one poster mentioned above, the career does improve but not that much.

Some good advice being suggested. Get out for a few years and up skill yourself in something you like, then return to flying when the environment gets better.

Make sure your happy in what ever you choose to do!

I went to University after school and spent 10 years in non-aviation work, then did my CPL and worked in GA for 7 years after training and worked for several different operators. What I learned from this experience is that what you describe is not unique to aviation and that the it's not the industry per-se that's at fault but rather the individual operators. I worked for the good, the bad and the ugly in both aviation and non-aviation and the problem are the individual owners/operators and this exists outside of aviation just as much as it does inside. With Covid-19 around the less scrupulous operators will take further advantage by using the pressure to push people to do more for less with the constant cloud of 'your lucky to have a job' and 'there are thousands of desperate guys out there that could replace you tomorrow' - if this is the kind of company/boss you work for then its a toxic environment and you should get out, employers like this will kill your dream and spirit stone dead. Lots of good advice above about options as short-medium term solutions. Best of luck.

I've changed careers 4 times in my life (now in my mid-forties). It's never the easiest option - just sitting unsatisfied in a job is the easiest option - but I've figured out that I need to be interested in my job to stay motivated.

Whenever I've felt that a job is affecting my mental health (and it has!), I know it's time for me to look at other options. And there are plenty of other options, it's entirely up to you to seek them out.

Edit: I'm now unemployed, of my own choosing. Contemplating doing a 6-12 month training course to get my foot in the door of a different industry...

I gave it away 15 years ago when I saw where things were heading career-wise. Flogging around the bush in a 182 or 206 older than I am, below-award wage offerings and the "shiny-jet syndrome" schedules that have you away at all hours of the day and night.

FWIW, I don't regret leaving flying at all. I got a job that I genuinely enjoy and have been doing that for 15 years. It is still shiftwork, but I now work only 2 weeks out of 6, It has paid for our house, car, and given me enough left over that I can afford an RV that I now fly where I want, when I want. IF that is 500' AGL down Victor 1 or an afternoon whale-watching flight with Mini-Me, that is what flying is about. Not about carting a bunch of ungrateful punters to Bali.

I think aviation is going to get worse before it gets better and if you are not happy now, chances are you won't be when it recovers. I would strongly consider pursuing another passion rather than continue your current path and just "put up with it".

not realistic. NOT REALISTIC.
For the majority of us, with no backup from family or connections, if I’ve been doing this for almost 2 decades it is not realistic nor fair to expect me to change careers and pay the house along the way.

If it all goes down the drain then so be it, but I’m tired of listening to unrealistic prospects of gold paved roads working in IT or what have you. It is simply not realistic nor fair to 99% of us who’ve been putting too much into this. And should be recognized at least a bit when times are tough.

Very few well paid careers are 9 to 5. Ranging from driving a mine truck for a reasonable wage, to working your way up the corporate ladder, to having a business all require shift work but the difference is mental stress. What once was a well respected career with good compensation for that time away from home, for that expertise in a professional area, for having decision making abilities that hold life’s in your hands, and shift work is arguably no longer an attractive package. Although driving a truck does not have the kudo’s of being a pilot it does pay the bill’s. You can put up with a lot of **** if that bank balance is bounding ahead or you can put up with a subsistence wage if what you’re doing is what you love and bound out of bed every morning for but seldom do these two meet.

I agree with KingRB. I think you have answered your own question. You have had a gutful. If you are hanging on with the idea of a commercial career it is still possible but I think the days of A or b or C scale Cathay are long gone for any airline. When ANSETT went under and pilot’s were doing other jobs the realization, for quite a few, was I am earning more money doing X without the stress. So is it worthwhile following the dream whereby in 5-10 years time I’ll be earning more than I am bricklaying or should I just stick to bricklaying (weekends at home etc).

Anyway PlotPlot your D and best of luck.

Depends what you're willing to do. If you have that mindset, then no, it probably isn't. But like I said, I gave flying away for another passion and it has paid off. You aren't going to walk into a $120,000+ job from the cockpit of a 210, but within 12-18 months it is easily achievable. The job I am referring to specifically is train driver. Depending who you work for, once you are out of the initial school it is $65-75,000 a year for an assistant, rising to $123,000+ for a qualified Driver, before overtime. The OT rate is $106/hour for GWA per their enterprise agreement. I work part-time (not for them though), averaging 28h/wk, do 2 weeks work (14x12h shifts) and have 4 weeks RDO's and earn $110K. Reckon you'll earn that in the aviation environment today if you are not flying?

What should happen, and what does happen, as has been found out many a time, are not always the same. IF you aren't prepared to even consider what is offered, then that's entirely up to you. But there are jobs out there that pay well, even in this economy...Pining for something that is not going to happen is only going to make you more miserable.

There’s no train driving jobs in Victoria right now, because nobody is using public transport!

Some people are hung up on the word “professional”. They have an emotional need for status. I grew up in an age when people looked up at professionals with university degrees and looked distastefully at “trades” and tradesmen. It was an understandable but short sighted idea. People assumed that “professionals”, (a) made more money and (b) were happier.

This was and is BS. while I was still a ragged university student, young tradesmen already had their second or third car, were paying off their first house and were thinking of wife and kids. As a professional engineer, I was at least six or seven years behind the kids who were apprenticed and earning at sixteen in terms of establishing an independent lifestyle and my own household. I have NEVER made up that gap and neither have many other professionals. It’s called discounted cash flow - you might pick up a six figure salary as a professional at the peak of your earning powers but that doesn’t make up for the years of relative poverty and stress to achieve it.

Furthermore there is a unique Australian associated problem - income tax. The tax scales don’t have any compensation for risk, investment and the stress involved in earning that big salary at all. You are better off earning less if you can get stable long term perhaps undemanding work rather than trying to make big bucks on the corporate high wire where one slip and....,,

‘’Try and forget the status / power / snobbery angle and find something that is personally satisfying.

I still remember the constant stream of suicides as students jumped off the ming wing when the tension between what they wanted to do and what their parents expected them to do became just too much.

And who says you have to "keep pushing"?
I hope you realised by now, that romantic child dreams do not quite resemble pragmatic adult realities. And if you have to sacrifice so much and scrap the bottom to find motivation to carry on, then perhaps you should do some introspection to see what sort of childhood overhang(s) you need to get rid of.

As a comparison, two extreme ends of the spectrum:

Got a mate who works for a big financier in Sydney CBD. Pre-covid he spent 0700-1700 on weekdays at work before coming home via packed sweaty public transport only to then spend another 3-4 hours at home taking phone calls and replying to emails. Now he just logs on in the morning and works from home until he struggles to stay awake somewhere around 2000-2100. Most of the guys doing his job are in their mid - late 20s, paid around 80-110k a year and are generally miserable in every sense of the word.

Another friend works in the APS. Works for an operationally focussed department that she says is “slightly less boring than the usual APS gig”. Flex time, easy to get leave, been promoted several times etc etc. While the workplace is more or less pleasant it’s an absolute drain on morale if you have any ambition whatsoever. She’s 29, does her weekly 37.5 hours, paid about 70k and screaming to get out of Canberra.

If you were to leave and get a “real” job you can be certain that the grass will only be a different shade of green. Flying a desk can be an unpleasant change for some, so (especially if you’re thinking about uni) maybe try to intern or something. Maybe even do a temp 1/3/6 month gig if possible?

All I can say is, the big decisions, like changing career, often make themselves. Something will happen to help you decide whether to walk away or not. If you really are stuck in a rut then accept that we all are from time to time. That's life, it can be like groundhog day sometimes...trust me, I've been instructing for 30 years!

Talk about a rock and a hard place. To a certain extent it gets back to what you have experienced before. In my case I had really crappy jobs prior to get into aviation and that kept me going thru GA. Admittedly times were far better then for progress but it still took 17 years on bug smashers with associated conditions before moving to something better. Even then I had to take a 40% pay cut from GA in my first airline job.

I guess you have to look at what is the alternative and at the moment there is not much. Good luck.

Actually they increased the number of services on tram and trains during the 1st phase of lockdown in Victoria. The thinking was the more units out there the less crowded they would be. So yes, not many pax but more trains and trams than ever before. Dan's mates at the TWU are loving the overtime which is all that matters apparently.

PlotPlot,

You are not alone with these feelings of frustration. I actually took the decision to leave work for a couple of years whilst my children were in high school, I was married before starting in this profession, and I made every parents evening, every event and every rugby match. Unfortunately I had to go back to work when my wife had spent most of my savings. But 5 years off made it hard to get back.

In the UK operators are legally required to have a pilot peer support programme so that we can talk to an anonymous mate about exactly what you post. The big airlines have their own programme but most corporate operators use a cooperative system. In the mean time try and join this on line chat if you can,
https://media-exp1.licdn.com/dms/ima...mzcDvaVoiFhn1c

MM

Trains are running at 10% of what they were. The car parks are completely empty. Today there was 1 car at my local zone 1 station and I think that car has been sitting there for a week.

Bit of a drift to be sure. No doubt very few are travelling. My front gate is 15 metres from the terminus of the #6 Tram route. At 9 am this morning there were 5 empty trams banked up waiting their turn to enter the stop to turn around and head off empty to wherever. I have been observing the tram movements for 15 years from my upstairs bedroom, this is not normal. 100 metres from my gate is the Glen Iris train station, my wife travels every weekday on this service. Train schedule unchanged according to her, go figure.

The local train runs every 20 mins at off peak times, so are you suggesting that its now a 200 minute frequency?

Your troubles are not limited to GA. I am an airline captain, with a reasonably stable schedule and well paid.

I have loved my job and I am very sad that chances are that I am very soon being made redundant.

Having said that - I live very far from my family and friends now. I have been forced to move every 3-4 years because of the job. I have missed countless of birthdays, important events, holidays and Christmas's during my last 20 years of flying.

Once I came to terms with the fact that I will most probably never fly again - the thought of moving to my home country, buying a house that I am not forced to sell again after a few years, seeing friends in my sparetime instead of just colleagues, and seeing my nephew grow up....just does not sound so bad.

Plotplot,

Your last sentence is what you have to solve. Are you pushing to pay the bills? For the family? For your own big pilot dream? It seems to me that you feel sacrificing too much currently, expecting a certain career advancement which is now seems diminished. Let’s be honest, everyone’s plan is now spoilt! Mine too.

There is no rush to reach any level in aviation. Every level has it pros and cons. Some jobs make pilots cross the Pond (and 12hrs time zome different) 3 times a month. Some jobs make pilots commute 1.5 days from home to base. Some have to don a polar suit in order to do external walk around. Worthy or not, entirely up to the beholder.

If you have lost interest in flying, go try something else. If you are still employed flying GA, my advice is hang in there. There will be plenty of opportunities to fly something bigger once the tide turns.

Personally, I have been furloughed for more than 6 months and may never go back to fly for current employer. During this period, I most envy those single pilot IFR Youtubers in their single engine turboprops!

Don’t be too hard on yourself and I wish you all the best!:)​​​​​​​

Miles. Thank you.

I probably should have specified my background at the start so people didn't think I was just a whinging twenty-something with no other life experience. I was in IT for 13 years before making the change, so this is not my first professional rodeo, and I know how that sh!t sandwich tastes in another industry. The reason I left was due to the same sentiment that someone already mentioned; if you don't enjoy it, then why do it. I didn't enjoy it, so I left.

I came in to this career knowing full well I'd be eating a different flavored sandwich but the same nonetheless for a few years. But imagine you've been chewing on that sh!t sandwich for four years, and you know that you'll be eating your last bite of that sandwich this year, and then someone goes, "sorry champ, take a seat, we've just made you another sh!t sandwich to eat for another 4-6 years yet". There is a big difference between going into it expecting to be eating that sandwich for 8-10 years, rather than thinking it will be 2-4 like it has been for a while, then watching the industry turn on a dime just as you were getting close to the last bite. A big difference.

I'm aware those conditions aren't unique to GA. But at least at some point you'll have those conditions, but you won't be living remote, isolated away from friends and family, and you'll begin to have some resemblance of a life, and on a liveable salary. And don't tell me you put up with the same sh!t now like the way you did by your employer in GA. Or perhaps you've been away from it for too long and forgot what it was actually like.

My rose colored glasses lost their tint long before I even had my first flying job. Airlines was never really on my radar, I was always aiming for something with a bit more substance. Being a pilot was not something I aspired to since I was born. It was something I found a passion in, and decided to take a punt on turning that passion into a career. It may still work out yet.

Fokkerdriver, I'm glad you have been able to find a silver lining.

Flightleader, there is an element of guilt that comes with feeling this way. Like I should step aside and give it to someone who would appreciate it more. Just trying to get back to the roots of why I did it in the first place. I've worked my guts out to make this career change like many others. A small break may be all that's needed feel that appreciation again.

@plotplot

I would stop now and get out. Seriously.

Aviation is not worth your health, your mental health, your relationships, or your marriage. With the downturn in aviation, nothing is going to happen soon, especially without an A320/B737 rating and experience.

I speak as a career changer. I did something brilliant for 16 years, then saw what was coming and got out. I re-trained as a pilot. I did not do any GA but I did full-on, 4/6 sector days in old machinery with dodgy Captains and 6 on, 2 off rosters. I frequently got up at 0300 or 0230. I drove for 90 mins to check-in. Flew 4 or 6 short, busy sectors, then 90 mins home and do it all again the next day. And the next. And the next. And the next. And the next. And the next.

For standbys, I would get up at 0200 put on my uniform on and drive for 30 mins and find a quiet layby and try to sleep in a sleeping bag in my car with the phone on. (had to be within 60 mins of the airfield).

My marriage did not survive. I missed a lot of my children's life and growing up.

Aviation is not worth all that. Unless you are in the right time and place with the right qualifications and get on the right fleet, in the right airline; I would put it down to experience and retrain for something else, while your brain is still young (I assume) and able to relearn.

You have probably done this, but you have to make your own luck: I made mine: I paid (my own savings), to do a full time frozen ATPL(A) at a respected school, then I did a Shorts 360 type rating, which made me employable, (at the time). I literally jumped into the car and drove 4 hours straight when I heard of a job, just to put my CV on the chief pilot's desk. This got me on the second rung of the ladder.

I did eventually get onto the right jet(s) in the right airline, twice, but both those airlines went bust.

I would say if it hasn't happened within three years of starting out; save your health, save your sanity, save your money. Put it down to experience and do something else.

I would certainly not fly fatigued.

plot, only you can make that call.

You are still alive and solvent, therefore you must be pretty fair at the job.

Take solace in being good at what you do.

Maybe scheme your next move and be ready when the time comes. There are better gigs, albeit not right at this minute.

Good luck.

Someone mentioned train driving. It's properly the way ahead.

Mate of mine left school at 16 and dossed around fixing computers for 10 years, living with his parents and barely scraping by.

About 6 years ago he responded to an advert for freight train drivers. He has just bought a £350k house cash (i.e. no mortgage), has a great car and long term girlfriend with kid.

When I asked him how he did it he said the base pay (following training) started at £35k and is now £75k. You can then top this up with shift allowances and bonuses. One year he worked Christmas day and Boxing Day and was paid £2500...per day! He has comfortably cleared 6 figures for the last 3 or 4 years.

I have friends who are lawyers and doctors. Outside of the few in top-end private practice it is not that well paid and they make, on average, about £65k having spent 5 or 6 years getting qualified and carrying huge training debt.

'The professions' sound impressive and carry high social capital, but it is not the land of milk and honey.

Living in the moment is not always the best thing. You need to think where you would like to see yourself in 10 or 20 years rather than tomorrow or in a month's time.

Granted, this crisis will pass, just as any other one has. So, long-term, you will have any aviation job opportunity you can think of. The question is, what do you want to get out of it? Also, what frustrates you so much now? It might not be the profession as such but the unsatisfactory environment in the specific gig you're working for. If that's the case, it's a matter of patience until something better comes up. That's a case when it's worth staying in aviation.

However, it your vision of life in 10 years from now is totally incompatible with anything aviation - that's a completely different matter. Then it's not worth extending your suffering and frustration any further than absolutely necessary to change career paths.