The bored long-haul pilot on this thread? Just think about the positives. You have an airline pilot job. You are flying in and out of places many people will never see. You walk through prestigious airports with your crew, getting special access and treatment. You fly in a modern airliner with amazing technology and your working day is not physically hard or demanding. On long-haul during quiet times in the cruise, I did the cryptic crossword, looked out the window and marvelled at our planet, worked on the manuals, watched for satellites, the ISS and the Aurora Borealis. Boring? Never.

But if your job is actually making you physically or mentally ill, then as I said in my earlier post, you must change. Change base or fleet if you can, or get out and find another job or career. It is much easier to get a new job while already employed - while you are keeping current and qualified, and someone else is paying your living expenses. So start firing CVs out again, do your research and go and knock on doors. If you want to keep flying, then as someone on this thread said, chose a good operator you want to work for and ask the chief pilot what you need to do to be considered. I did exactly that, many years ago, and got my first Airbus FBW gig, (admittedly without the buggeration of Covid, but 9/11 happened, which stopped things for a while).

Prestigious airports? That's an interesting phrase. I'm thankful for those pilots that want to do the job. I wonder why however. Not physically taxing true but the hours and politics seem crippling compared to other jobs.

Airline pilot job.......big deal
Places many people will never see......or want to see
prestigious airports.....come on!
modern airliner.....outdated technology.

positives, hmmmmm........ paycheck.

not so great really

Haha, no, not installed for that reason😂😂

The bottom line is, every job can be great if it's the right fit for you. Some people absolutely love the dynamics of working for a LCC and spend decades on end working for a LCC as a matter of conscious personal choice, not because their five-digit number of jet hours wouldn't have allowed them to get another job. Some enjoy long-haul with all its perks, despite the working hours, changing time zones, being away from home a lot etc. Some are born night owls and wouldn't trade cargo for anything. Some would never consider trading their corporate jet for an airliner. Some wouldn't consider any transport aircraft as instructing and doing agricultural flying in a SEP/MEP is all they want to do. I've seen all those kinds of people. Neither of them is universally right or wrong, but each one is right for himself. There are many different types of flying and having found the right one for you with a decent operator which treats you professionally often makes the difference between fulfilment and frustration. Or, if neither of them sounds like a good match - there are also countless other career options, both in aviation and outside of it.

Nah I don't know guys, I feel like I made a big f***ing mistake letting my young age and passion pull me into this industry.

I'm now 25 stuck working for propably one of the worst GA opperator/owners in the country in a clapped out twin and single from a remote base... Who knows how much longer I will be out here for!

Im often cross that I know of a dozen people around my age or younger working at [insert Dash 8 operator here] out of a capital city, that for the most part don't deserve to be there, and only got there because HR opened the flood gates, all they needed was their parents to cough up the 10-20K to buy the Job.

I have a highly supportive and better deserving partner back home on the J curve, I don't feel like it's wise to give that up just to chase what is pretty much eternal lonlieness, and by the looks of the MR, my impending death.

If I leave now, I don't think I'll ever return to the industry, at least not in a flying role. But im stumped as to what industry or role I could possibly migrate too. I, like most of us, have had my minds set only on flying for a long time... it's all I know. So what do I do now?

IT? - For the love of god I have no idea why IT get's tossed around in pilot forums so much
Trade? - Electrcial
Office Job? - How long before I loose my **** and throw my PC out window?

I don't want to piss away another 3-5 years studying at university only to find myself broaching into my 30's and in the red another 20-30K with no sustainable job.

But on the other hand, what is a non-flying role like? Whats it like having a normal job and a normal life? Is it worth it? Will I resent myself if I never fly professionally again? Should I try an join the Defence Force? I cannot possibly afford to make another mistake.

Sitting Bull, let me give you some advice. You WILL make more mistakes, lots of them. Get used to it. What is vitally important is how you RECOVER from your mistakes. If you cry your eyes out for months you are wasting time. What’s done is done. Furthermore, we operate with perfect hindsight and castigate ourselves for “mistakes” that couldn’t be avoided because we didn’t have foreknowledge of what happened next. It’s axiomatic in neurolinguistics that people make what they think is the best decision based on what they know at the time. How could you know about Covid when you started flying?

I agree, university is a waste of time if you want a meal ticket, you will end up working for the same creeps you worked for in aviation. What are your passions? What are you good at? Forget the money, that comes later. Get out and network. Talk to everyone, anyone, you will be surprised what you learn. Watch the movie “Kenny” there is money even in crap. A relative was a personal trainer, she got tired of paying for certain beauty products. She now is building her own brand quite successfully. Two male friends my age just sold their businesses. However their customers won’t let them retire. They have both started new businesses. My daughter in law was in HR, she got sick of being trashed by her employer. She now has her own rapidly growing specialised HR company and she is busy with a capital B.

There are opportunities out there. Find your passion. Go and talk to people in that industry. There are plenty of ideas around.

The thing is, thinking about it, I spent five years in GA ... never once did I think about giving it up.

If the family and loved ones you are missing live down in Victoria under that megalomaniac Andrews, send them a Skype and thank your lucky stars you’re not with them..!

In your five years, was the industry ever decimated in a matter of weeks just as you were gearing up to move on? Before all of this the thought had never crossed my mind either. I'm sure there were plenty of people in the same boat who were in GA in 2009-10, after 2001 and after '89 that would have been stuck for a while as well. Any of them in here by any chance?

Hi PlotPlot,

Yes.

1990 - Finished my flying training. Went looking for GA jobs, spoke to a guy flying in the Torres Straights that had been flying the same C206 for 4 years, was about to go on the Islander, '89 happened, he was stuck on the C206 as all progress stopped. He did at least another 2 years on the single before moving up. At the time there was 1 parachute operator in CNS, in a C182, the pilot had been "working" for him for 2 years, ON THE DOLE. (He is now a NB Capt in Aus) I was driving a tour bus along with other jobs. I met heaps of "pilots" working in bars.

1993 - I got disillusioned, went overseas looking for work, and it was even harder than finding work in Australia. Did a bunch of other jobs for 3 years, (Ski Fields, Fish Factory, Landscaping, Bars, Private Yachts) had a heap of fun, but it didn't stop me from wanting to come home and fly aeroplanes.

1996 - I came home, (I was 25yo) spent a bunch of money getting my CPL/IR current, started chasing the work, was doing ok, having fun. Most importantly, I was gaining experience. Started studying again, finished my ATPL subjects, did an Aviation Degree, tried to get myself in the best position I could to be employed. Things started to move pretty quickly, Turbine jobs, Regionals etc, VB started up, Even QF were employing!!! Apparently there was a pilot shortage. Us guys in the bush struggled to get any traction with the "J Curve" regionals, (watched all the 2 year instructors get the QLink, Hazo's/Kendall jobs) but the FNQ/NT/WA operators were employing, then 2001 happened.

May 2001 - FlightWest ceased operation.

September 2001 - Kendalls, Hazo's and Ansett ceased operation

It took about 9 months for things to start moving again, REX was borne out of Kendall/Hazo's, VB expanded rapidly, Impulse became Q Link(2001) then Jetstar(2004)

2002-2003. We all moved up the ladder, some quickly (VB/QF, REX, Eastern, Sunstate etc), some just one rung at a time, JetCraft/MacAir/PelAir/RFDS. It was very hard watching some pilots jump straight into QF/VB etc, when you couldn't get a look in, but, that's life really. Maybe it was ME?

Had some great times, flew turbines, moved into a Jet, did some international flying, made some great friends, met a girl, cracked $60k/year, life was good.

2007 - Got a job in a "J Curve" city, on a shiny Jet, good money, not too much work, quick command, life was good for 2 years.

2009 - GFC - Company went bust, UnEmployed, lost a bunch of money in entitlements, but worst still, I HAD NO JOB. Worldwide, no one was employing due to the GFC. Was 5 months out of work, paid to do a SIM to keep current, finally found a job overseas. Left my girlfriend at home and moved to a 3rd world country I new nothing about to fly to places I had never heard of.

Dec 2009 - Company went Bust, UnEmployed again!!! Luckily, things in Australia were looking up,

April 2010 - Got a job back home, moved to big "J Curve City", enjoyed life, got married, had kids.

2010 - 2014 - Domestic Narrow Body ops

2014-2018 - WideBody International

2018- March 2020 - Narrow Body Capt

March 2020 - Current - JobKeeper Recipient/Landscape Gardener's assistant.

So, there is my 30 year Resume of experience in the aviation industry. So YES, I lived through '89, 2001, 2007 and COVID, and all the other crap in between. There have been some good times and bad times, many ups, but just as many downs.

I can assure you though, the 3 years I did back in the '90's were I didn't fly, not a day went past when I didn't think about flying and how I was going to get back in an aeroplane.

Also, maybe if I had persevered in the early '90's, not taken a break, I may have been in a few thousand hours better off for the employment boom that happened in the mid to late '90's? I may have got a Regional/Airline Gig and subsequently been 5-10 years ahead of where I am currently? I lost a lot of sleep over that for many years, now I just accept that as part of my life.

I've worked for "the worst operator in GA", and I've worked for Ok operators, some were even "good", but, I always got paid. Sometimes it wasn't as good as it should have been, sometimes the aircraft weren't as good as they could have been, but they were legal to fly.

I feel for you, there doesn't look like there is much of a future right now, but if you decide to take a break now and want to come back to it, you may miss an opportunity when the music starts again. Also, due to Covid, regular jobs are a bit thin on the ground in the big cities. I have spoken to Pilots/Flight Attendants that are having a really hard time getting any decent long term jobs, and I certainly don't recommend Landscaping!!

Well done for reaching out for advice, as I mentioned in my last post #60, there are a number of avenues you could pursue for assistance, please consider these as I am confident they will help you get through these tough times.

It is sad that you are still banging around in some of the same airframes that were "old" when I was in GA, but you have to put your trust in the engineers to keep them serviceable, and yourself to make sure the defects are reported and rectified. This is one of the most important lessons you can learn, because that same the pressure is still there in the airlines.

Good luck to you with your decision. PM me if you like, I'm free all day (my landscaping boss has gone on holidays ;-0)

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....fe932e2b16.gif

My story is pretty much the same.

That was an excellent read Roj, thank you for taking the time to write that. And what an interesting story.

Definitely a reality check; if I stepped down now to wait it out I would be trying to jump back in the pool and compete with a LOT more guys with 2500 hours and plenty of multi to go with it when that time comes. However you did mention that you yourself and a lot of others from the bush struggled to get work initially when hiring started, due to over-experience I imagine? 4000-5000 TT and a few thousand multi sure does sound over-experienced in that regard, compared to 2 year instructors. Though I'm not at all interested in airlines, so surely the more experience the better in some other sectors i.e. aeromedical, corporate?

No worries Plotplot,

Kinda fun going back through my career like that. Lots of ups and downs.Some missed opportunities, but still better than having a real job.

I think you have worked it out for yourself. If you want to be a Pilot post Covid, I would be best to stick with being a pilot during Covid. Don't get hung up on what other Pilots are doing, that'll just get you wound up in a ball of resentment. This business is just a big game of snakes and ladders, the trick is steady progress and always be ready for the next step. Make sure you are applying for the jobs that interest you, Aeromed etc. But also consider other areas too, Night Freight is the best Job I had, I'd go back to it tomorrow if I could.

The Bush charter guy v City Instructor is a problem that has been around since Pontius was a Pilot, forget about it.

Use this time to finish your IR/ATPL's subjects if you don't have them, if you are bored, do some other studies, enjoy the flying you are doing now, it really is the best you will ever do.

Good luck
Roj

Joined the RAAF, got kicked out in '86 (my fault). Worked selling booze for Ritchies Supermarkets, Started instructing, '89 pilot dispute so got stuck there for three years, got a job with jetCraft, then Ansett. Lost job at Ansett in 2001. Unemployed for two years, moved to UK, paid a bunch to transfer licence and endorsement, job with easyJet for the last 17 years. Survived GFC redundancy talks and now forced onto 50% contract in COVID.

Certainly not the worst career - but still a few bumps along the way.

If you’re still in your 20’s get out and get a degree/trade and find a real job. Fact is, here in Asia guys are literally sitting in the RHS of a jet at 200 hrs TT, so this notion that you need thousands of hours to get a airline job is BS.

What jobs are you comparing the hours and politics too? I think any pilot who has done other jobs would have quite the opposite view.

Which airline is in the next couple of years take a 200 hour FO? Unless you're a local and have nice lips, that's not a reality for Aussie pilots to my knowledge.

Happy to be informed though

True, but they are locals working in airlines with a very strong push to nationalise their pilot body. The reason they are employing bare CPL holders is that there are no other local pilots available.

This will give you a laugh.....In the mid 70s, armed with a bare CPL and 200 hours, I drove North looking for that elusive first job. Door knocking along the way. Came across a Twin Otter operator who ran an RPT service with two pilots. I was told to keep driving north because 4000 hours was their minimum experience level to be considered suitable as an F/O on a Twin Otter. No, not a typo, Four thousand hours. That lesson was one of the reasons I left Oz a few years later, never to return and without any doubt was the best career move.

For bottom feeders like me, a career is aviation in Oz was all about luck. With no rich Daddy and no contacts all that was available in Oz were the crumbs and leftovers - grim jobs that no one else wanted. Lucky to even get paid some weeks. Looks like some things never change in GA.

So, back to the OPs question about pushing on. There is no answer, if you’re a hopeless dreamer like most of us, you just keep plodding along always looking anywhere and everywhere for an opportunity until eventually you get lucky and the cards fall our way....or for the unlucky ones - they don’t.
Other than having a rich or connected daddy, there is no career silver bullet in this game.