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-   -   New Radio Procedures at/near Ballina - CASA (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/627522-new-radio-procedures-near-ballina-casa.html)

Traffic_Is_Er_Was 17th Jan 2021 07:43


the FS system still exists
Traffic to IFR in G. EVERYTHING else is long gone.

and the operators are also qualified ATCs who can in the same shift operate a control sector.
Which is their primary responsibility, not looking after traffic in G

Mangalore should change all
Ironic that when FS were responsible for traffic OCTA (and Mangaglore was f*cking busy with IFR traning back then) there wasn't a mid air, but now that the poor bloody ATC is expected to do everything, and radar/atsb coverage is the be all and end all, one happens.

Capn Bloggs 20th Jan 2021 05:01

BA getting bigger:

s21-h03.pdf (airservicesaustralia.com)

Ex FSO GRIFFO 20th Jan 2021 05:42

Lemme see now....IF we 'increase the size' from 10 to 15nm, then that will just 'that' much more time to 'see and avoid'.......
i.e. 5nm @ 120kt = 150 seconds extra.

There! That's Dun !
Now....where's me coffee..??

Cheeerrrsss.....

cLeArIcE 20th Jan 2021 06:06

The situation at Ballina is bordering on criminal negligence. I Was hopeful now that Qf main line are flying there, perhaps someone in CASA/ ASA might see fit to change something. But yeah ... Thank God for those extra 5 nm. I feel safer already.

Capn Bloggs 20th Jan 2021 08:39

Griffo, I was always uncomfortable with 10nm for CTAFs. Too close/late for "popups". 15nm is better. I don't understand the 30nm from Gold Coast bit; if you're not in CTA, why not keep the 15nm? Is Joe Bloggs expected to have the CG VOR on his GPS/2nd NAV? Confusing. If you're in CTA who cares where the BA is? ATC will "clear you to leave, call the CAGRO at 15nm", wouldn't they?

Put in a tower.


Pinky the pilot 20th Jan 2021 08:55

There are times when I wonder if the old AFIZ and MBZ were better than that which has replaced them.:hmm:

Your comments, GRIFFO?

Ex FSO GRIFFO 20th Jan 2021 11:33

Aye Aye Cap'n.
Tower is the 'ultimate' solution....aka BME.... Class 'D'?.

However, Mr Pinky has a point.
The CAGRO ( Ex 'Elderly FSO / ATC') a la old 'AFIZ', is cheaper, and it worked OK for a loong time with those 'pesky' FK-28 thingies.
Call at 30nm inbound, or transiting.....

About 7 mins from the '30nm call' to the CIRA (FK-28's) - having rec'd 'A' or whatever, (which 'we' didnt have in 'those' days), and be given ONLY 'conflicting / pertinent traffic', means that, with ATIS, the talking is kept to the minimum.
Barons etc - about 10mins, and '210's about 12 mins.

This worked OK, even with sometimes 'multiple' FK-28 ops all converging at the same time......
T'was a 'thing' to behold....as to who streaked across the front windows first.............

However, it ain't gunna happen.
Tower is 'BEST'; you can wish for....so ya got an extra 5nm.....BIG DEAL!!!

Lead Balloon 21st Jan 2021 01:16


Tower is the 'ultimate' solution....aka BME.... Class 'D'?.
Egad, Griffo! You’ll give Bloggsie a conniption.

BME has E over D. The LCDs/indulgees flying in E across the top of BME are merely “encouraged” to contact the tower. It’s a recipe for disaster!

Ex FSO GRIFFO 21st Jan 2021 01:40

Aye 'Leadie', Oi rekkon he'll have a BIG ONE of 'those' when he sees the 1,500AGL 'E' (a la East Coast, announced today...) extended to 'Where he operates'......

It seems that the prediction of TCAS being the final / dependable traffic info (FIS) by default is 'a
'cummin TROO......

Cheeerrrsss....

Traffic_Is_Er_Was 22nd Jan 2021 00:24


Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs (Post 10971727)

so CASA is aware that some aircraft are not making required broadcasts within the vicinity of Ballina, and the fix is to make the area that they are not making the required broadcasts in bigger?
Brilliant!

Lead Balloon 22nd Jan 2021 02:06

Pure genius.

FPDO 28th Jan 2021 03:54

yeah mate quick n simple........

FPDO 28th Jan 2021 03:55


Originally Posted by cLeArIcE (Post 10971743)
The situation at Ballina is bordering on criminal negligence. I Was hopeful now that Qf main line are flying there, perhaps someone in CASA/ ASA might see fit to change something. But yeah ... Thank God for those extra 5 nm. I feel safer already.

yeah if its too dangerous for you to fly in there then simply don't fly there !

McLimit 28th Jan 2021 23:47


yeah if its too dangerous for you to fly in there then simply don't fly there !
Has he/she got a choice? Simple solution for you perhaps.

triadic 9th Feb 2021 09:41

My gut feeling is that it wont be long before CASA OAR put the acid on ASA to provided a TWR there.... busier than Coffs or Broome??

McLimit 9th Feb 2021 10:21


My gut feeling is that it wont be long before CASA OAR put the acid on ASA to provided a TWR there.
Not a chance, I'll put money on it.

triadic 12th Feb 2021 02:53

I didn't say there would be a TWR there, just that the OAR would put some pressure on ASA to provide something better. My guess is that as well as the OAR it will be political pressure for a class D zone. (remote maybe?) Time will tell.

10JQKA 12th Feb 2021 03:38

The lhread on the lowering of Class E to1500 agl in the J-Curve mentions that BNA & MNG are proposed to be SAFIS (Class G).

triadic 12th Feb 2021 04:59

I doubt that will happen without significant changes. Towers cost $$ and you can be sure that ASA don't want to spend any. What is the safest outcome for BNA.

As for MNG, an old style MBZ would be worth a try.


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