Qantas pilot academy - latest rejection
 

I received the "thanks but no thanks" email from the first round of applicants to the Qantas pilot academy last week. Of course I am disappointed but I'm really seeking some advice to learn from this. I am becoming miffed as to why I continue to be rejected at the first round of cuts for all cadetship/academy applications.

I applied for the 2017 Virgin cadetship at 0 hours flight time and was rejected at first round.
I applied for the 2018 Virgin cadetship at 30 hours flight time and was rejected first round.
I applied for the 2019 Qantas pilot academy at 60 hours flight time and was rejected first round.

The only other details both organisations have about me are that I am in my late 30s with two university degrees and am male. I have expressed a very strong desire to change careers and finally engage in the career I've always wanted to do rather than the career that everyone else has expected me to do. There is literally no other job I can possibly see myself doing that I would enjoy, and be fully engaged in, other than career pilot.

There is no other pertinent data about me that I have provided to either organisation. Can anyone provide some advice on what the airlines are looking for? I cant seem to work it out. TIA.

These's a lot more flying satisfaction and fun out there, other than just the biggies.

Why are you so fixated on going down the "Academy" route?

It would seem you have been able to independently finance your training up till now. Why not continue down that path?

You've answered your own question.

TempoTCu:

I suspect the airlines are looking for cadets aged around 18-25, so your age probably doesn't help your case. There's also a push for more female cadets; Qantas and Virgin have announced they are aiming for a 50-50 gender split in their cadet recruitment. Virgin exceeded that with their 2018 intake, where 9 out of 16 recruits were female. My guess is they've had far more applications than there are places available and that applicants who don't fit the right 'demographic' are automatically rejected.

Why not contact them regarding your rejection letter and explain yourself exactly as you have done on the first post and ask them the reasons why. At least this way you can stop guessing and stop feeling inadequate, if you have the real reasons you can then make some more accurate decisions. I don't think they would be against telling you why you were rejected especially if you put your questions like you have in your first post. Good luck

I do feel for you but to be frank yr age would be the biggest stumbling block for the cadetships. Late 30's say 38 for Eg means you are well behind the 8 ball there sadly:-( I started late commercially (30 yrs old) & back then I was considered way too old but I persevered and changed trains ending up fly with the Airlines anyway, just went about it differently:-)
As much as you must be disillusioned plenty before you have ridden the same sad train but that doesn't mean your train journey need come to an abrupt end, change trains & ride it to another proposed destination:-)
Good luck, there's only one thing you need to succeed (other than LOTS of cash) is determination, that's free!:-)

So the underlying suggestion is age and gender are preventing me from progressing. The very two things that are supposed to be "protected" under Australian employment law. I am reluctant to accept that. If there are any airline HR people lurking here please feel free to comment. mcoates , I have tried contacting VF and Cobham (to who I also applied to their cadetship) previously and could not find someone who would respond meaningfully to my enquiry.

For the record, I have self funded my training to date (which I only started 18 months ago) by working two jobs whilst funding a mortgage, a marriage, and raising children - so I know a thing or two about "scrimping and saving" and I think my situation adequately demonstrates my intention and commitment to this new career if I were at least given an opportunity to express this to any recruiter.

I am not seeking training in a cadetship or academy exclusively, its just that I know how competitive the industry is so I want to apply for everything, and if I get anything I'll be thrilled. I am continuing to self fund and fly part time and slowly hour build. It is not ideal but it is the the only way I can progress in my current fiscal situation. I am thoroughly enjoying every second in the cockpit so if I could accelerate my training I would. I am not pinning all my hopes and dreams on being a flagship airline pilot. I would be equally as thrilled with any pilot job in a full time capacity that meets my current cost of living. Thanks for all the comments, I'll never give up I am just using every means possible to obtain as much information and feedback as possible to make me the best I can be.

I disagree with that, it's not been my experience that this is the case, especially with the ADF. If anything the ADF would prefer minimal to modest hours so they can mould you into shape.

I think to go down the line of age discrimination is quite severe. To not be offered a position does not automatically mean they're discriminating against you, that implies hands down you are the ultimate candidate? Maybe you're not presenting as well as you think?

Either way, I applied for a cadetship years ago for REX, and I thought I was a shoe in, didn't get it in the end and it was the best that that never happened to me!

Age and gender related discrimination might be 'protected' under Australian law, but it still occurs in workplaces all over Australia. It goes without saying that no prospective employer would ever admit to such practices. If you believe you have a case, then you have every right to make a complaint to the Australian Human Rights Commission:
https://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-w...imination-2012

I said "If you believe you have a case, then you have every right to make a complaint". I did NOT say that it would achieve anything!

I just want to be clear that I am not suggesting that I have been discriminated against - I'm just seeking feedback on what I can do (if anything) to overcome the constant rejections. This isn't about finding or making excuses, its about tapping into every resource available to learn and improve. Thanks.

I have to agree with the others who have said "just get on with it". Although cadetships have been around a while, cadets make up a minority of pilots in all airlines. It will not define your training or your success.

It's not easy to get a cadetship.

Have a look at the Qantas Recruitment thread. Look at the mind numbing number of views. There is lots of interest, lots of competition. Pilots from around the world from aeroclubs, the military and airlines are fighting for spots not just in Qantas but the other airlines too.

Be aware that you're up against people who have no other responsibilities, eat sleep and breathe aviation and totally submerge themselves in the industry. Flying is a passion that burns in some people and this helps this irrational devotion. So how much do you want it? A cadetship is no easy path, it guarantees nothing. So if you want it...if it burns in you...then get into flying. Otherwise, enjoy your PPL with friends and family.

Most of your readers have sacrificed their time, money and lives to be professional pilots. They have failed, picked themselves up, swept hangers, worked in 50 degree cockpits, had friends killed. Not getting into a cadetship is a first world problem that holds no relevance or significant disappointment. It will not define your flying and it certainly doesn't mean there is anything wrong with you.

There is a character type, a profile, that the airline recruiters have clearly in mind. There is the formal selection criteria, and then there a less easy to define
assessment about an applicant's suitability, which may include a look at persona, which in effect covers tolerance, stability, humour and other attributes, while considering potentially adverse aspects such as prejudices, fixations or halitosis.
(A young woman I knew applied, well qualified. Three senior pilots, all men, interviewed her. She did well, presenting as confident, pleasant and relaxed.In conclusion they thanked her for coming in. As she rose to leave, one of the panel asked her. . . "Just a last question . .. what would be your reaction to
any sexual harassment on the flight deck?" She smilingly replied . . . "Well all I'd do is ask him to not say a word." General laughter. I rather think that clinched it for her. Home and hosed. )

P.S. You're right 'crosscutter'. . .. many of us swept hangers . .. . and not just the wire ones lying around in dusty corners of the hangar.

That is probably a big stumbling block. There are very few, if any, low hour jobs that would meet the requirements of your current costs of living.

One is spelled hangar the other wire ones, hanger. The word hangar is of French origin I believe.

Today's piece of interesting, useless, information.

Meanwhile back on topic

I think you need to change tack and forget about the academy route. There are other ways.

Well have a think about it from the airline's perspective. If they hire someone who will be about 40 when they get checked to line, it doesn't leave much time to be a Captain. You would be lucky to see a command at any Jet airline under 15 years from starting which would leave someone like yourself in their early to mid 50's when they are just starting their command, assuming you pass it first go. At best it leaves 5-10 years assuming you are capable and willing to fly into your 60s. Given they can hire a 22 year old and get 20+ years out of them as a Captain, what would you do if you were the airline?

That is the long and the short of it. It makes no sense to persist with hoping for a break, crying for the moon.

I have seen first hand people 40+ going for their first jet rating with not a lot of experience.

Its very hit and miss. Out of 6 people 3 didn't make it.

TempTCu, assuming you go the GA career route, how will your wife feel about being the main breadwinner? How will your family ​​​​survive on the less than subsistence salaries in GA? True, people do but it’s not pretty.

Heres the hard truth. You’re late 30’s with children. It’s too late now to follow your dream, your sole responsibility is to your children. Bluntly, at your stage of life, you’ve missed the boat. Accept it, find other avenues of fulfilment. There are many wonderfull ways to enjoy recreational aviation which don’t cost a bomb.

By way of perspective, may I add that the harsh reality of flying as a lucrative career is that it’s no longer fun nor enjoyable and will be the entire opposite of what you imagine it to be. Not a single one of all my friends would recommend it to their children. The “top of the ladder” is long haul - a special kind of hell. Where you trade your health and family life for money.

Sounds reasonable.

We all need to remember that this is NOT a cadetship. Anyone that has looked at the application will see as others have said its very basic information.

Give it 12 months until the novelty wears off. They will then take anyone when people realise its not a guaranteed Qantas job.

Well said. Probably less than 12 months though:}

I disagree, it's not too late to follow the dream. I know of several people who have started well into their thirties and even mid to late forties and are very happy with their decision. Sure it's not for everybody but it can work for some.

As for "top of the ladder" not everyone is obsessed with being a wide body captain.

So long as anyone entering the game is aware of the trials and tribulations of the job and have realistic expectations about where their career can take them and so do it with their eyes open then it can be a worthwhile and rewarding exercise. The problems happen when expectations and reality are not matched.