Pilots Losing Basic Flying Skills
 

I don't think it is the systems as such, that are detracting from developing and maintaining hands-on piloting skills, as much as the company managers and flight operations inspectors of the regulators. It also doesn't help when the legal fraternity are ready to swoop if there is a buck in it.
Finally, throw in the culture question where some operators have a punishment ethos to the slightest perceived infringement of a company SOP, then is it any wonder pilots steer clear of trying to keep up their handling skills and stick to the automatics from lift-off to touchdown.

'judd' that about sums it up perfectly! The so called feel good "Just Culture" the Airlines love to feel comfy about is just a smoke screen to screw the pilots!
I try to encourage my F/O's to hand fly in low workload conditions but am forever aware that it's my license on the line when they do! Anytime when any F/O is hand flying the skipper has to be even more alert & his/her workload can be much higher, hence hand flying isn't that common I reckon.

... and, yet, 30 years and more ago, on the jets of the time, folks of such persuasion would hand fly the entire leg without letting the J-B stuff get a look-in. Anything under about 90 minutes sector time would be hand flown for this chap. If the meal were a good one, perhaps the autopilot might get a few minutes for the meal break.

No-one ever seemed to complain or be too concerned about the workload. Then again, the AN/TN philosophy of the day was to overtrain the flight crews so, perhaps, that may have had an influence on the level of relaxation with workload ? I recall one captain's comment on the subject of captain's observation capabilities - "I'm not allowed to make mistakes" and that pretty well summed up the AN attitude. Everyone set out to do a high bar routine each and every flight.

When the 733 came in at AN, the then Flight Captain (or was it Fleet Captain ? - too long ago, now) - TW - took the view that pilots could emphasise hand flying or the autos during line flight - providing that they maintained competence in both and could use either appropriately and adequately on checks.

It is one thing to lose your flying skills through automation, but my concern is that when pilots start their airline careers these days do they have the basic skills. Historically an considerable number of pilots would have 1500 hrs gained through the military, instructing, air taxi work. etc.. We now have co pilots in airlines who are not even qualified to fly a Cessna 152 and not encouraged to learn to fly aerobatics or steep turns in their basic training.

But alas the modern flying contraption is no longer what it used to be.
Gone are the cables and connecting rods mated directly to a control surface and replaced with a stick that sends an electronic request to a computer which needs to be convinced to move a control surface or two.
Just like a modern car with its computers for traction, stability, emergency stopping, lane changing, parking, etc, these cars are brainless to drive with the intention of taking the driver out of the control equation completely.
A computer brings more efficiencies, especially so when a certain critical mass is reached and levels of optimisation beyond human capability become possible.

Reminds me of a story recently relayed to me about a HR system wrongfully terminating an employee. It was much easier for the company to have the employee terminated and re-employed than stop the HR software doing its thing.

I learnt something similar on a Chieftain at age 15 watching someone more experienced than I start it up.

Two high time aviators in the sim with round gauges. One needle doesn't move and the instructor asks "What's the problem?". Two crew scratch their heads reviewing systems, possible failure paths etc and unable to come up with an answer. "What would you do on the line?" instructor asks. Still no answer. "Tap the dial, it's a stuck needle" says he. A lesson in not over thinking.

quote] To a degree it’s up the individual [/quote]
Too true. I was cruising in a 737 Classic at 31,000 ft somewhere Germany and Greece. It was a beautiful day and I decided to practice tracking the VOR on flight plan route instead of VNAV and LNAV. Told the young 250 hour German first officer that was I disconnecting the autothrottle, autopilot and flight director and keep my hand in tracking the VOR's.
He looked at me completely disbelievingly and announced "In that case I will don my shoulder harness." Words failed me.

Judd,
Does not surprise me in the least.
Some time ago, old mate (AU) working for a subsidiary of Lufthansa, not only did as above, but, horror of horrors, flew a dreaded "Visual Approach", on a gin clear day down in the Med.
Result, dobbed in by the F/O, and "tea and biccies" with the fleet manager ---- and the very clear message that such free wheeling "Australian" behavior would not be tolterrated.
This from the airline that (long time ago) went off the end of 07 in YSSY, doing a couple approach and autoland in a DC-10 ---- and it was an inaugural, the publicity on the evening news was extensive, but not quite what Lufthansa had hoped for.
Tootle pip!!

Too true. I was cruising in a 737 Classic at 31,000 ft somewhere Germany and Greece. It was a beautiful day and I decided to practice tracking the VOR on flight plan route instead of VNAV and LNAV. Told the young 250 hour German first officer that was I disconnecting the autothrottle, autopilot and flight director and keep my hand in tracking the VOR's.
He looked at me completely disbelievingly and announced "In that case I will don my shoulder harness." Words failed me.[/QUOTE]

Not surprising, bet there are a lot of stories like that! Some years ago as an F/O on the 'bus' I wanted to do a full App flying manually in clear skies, turned it all off, the Capt sat bolt upright, looked absolutely mortified....I loved it watching the idiot squirm in his seat:-)

I was waiting to take off at Kai Tak when an airline pilot about to fly the IGS approach to R13 suddenly announced "I'm not declaring an emergency just yet, but we cannot get the autopilot to couple". He sounded very scared that he might have to fly the approach himself, rather than the autopilot doing it.

That was a few years ago, but I thought it was a one off. These days - possibly not!

I'd love to know which A/C can fly the IGS in HKG with an A/P.!!!!!!!

Crikey, there's some impressive willies being waved about 'round 'ere!

Hand flying smoothly with precision for more than a few minutes in the higher flight levels is all but impossible.

How strange. Used not to be a problem 30 years ago ... but one does have to be in practice, of course. A half decent manipulative pilot, in current practice, can pole the aircraft with more than respectable smoothness.

Ironic really that in the modern era of automation airlines still require the sim evaluation (without the use of all the toys)

Australia was in a very lucky position to have Airlines such as Ansett with it's unique philosophies, influence, capabilities and high operating standards that inspired and taught generations of Aussie Aviators.

Alas, now as each year passes more of those Ilk retire and our industry is poorer for their absence.

Perhaps in years to come the internet and threads like these will be our only reminders of the golden years of manual flying?

It should certainly not be impossible to a competent instrument rated pilot. After all, it wasn't all that long ago RAAF pilots flying fighters in the old days regularly flew in close formation in cloud at high altitudes with no automatics. The Canberra bomber was a single pilot aircraft that had no autopilot and regularly flew at 45,000 feet for four hours often in IMC and without the benefit of weather radar. Todays military pilots are taught to use all the whizz-bang automatics available yet their training still strongly accents manual flying skills which may be needed if the automatics are knocked out of action. I guess it all depends on your training and personal flying ability.

I always fly up there FL430-490 (usually in a block) & have had a go at hand driving whilst not on radar & it's pretty much impossible to retain high accuracy for any length of time. I see no need for it unless of course George took a break then all bets are off for normal Ops anyway:-)

lucille,
Re. this and your first post, are you serious??
Have you ever tried it??
And there was/is no FBW in a B707 of B747 ---- or any aircraft of that era.
Indeed, demonstrating you capability to do just what you seem to think is so difficult (for you, it may be) was once mandatory, and practice hand flying at high levels in cruise was encouraged --- because it kept your scan sharp.
I grant that long periods could be tiring --- after two colleagues and myself flew a B707 Singapore/Djakarta/Perth/Sydney one night with a u/s autopilot, we all slept very soundly after the necessary cleansing ale.

Not a bad effort from the FO with no tiller, but a bit of asymmetric brake and thrust would do the tight turns I guess.

And this is exactly as it should be.......