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-   -   CASA says air taxis within 5 years (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/616700-casa-says-air-taxis-within-5-years.html)

Squawk7700 10th Jan 2019 00:33


Originally Posted by LeadSled (Post 10356545)
Sunfish,

PS: As many people are now just starting to find out ----- the "economy" of their Prius or Tesla did not include the cost of replacement batteries, nor the real cost of disposal of the exhausted batteries

Does PS mean BS?

How many Tesla owners do you know that need new batteries LeadSled? Tesla batteries hold 90% after over 200,000 kms and will likely last for 600,000 kms or more! Nobody buys a Tesla for the ďeconomy,Ē you should know that. They are a performance car.




601 10th Jan 2019 00:35


Prius or Tesla
= coal fired cars.

Squawk7700 10th Jan 2019 00:39

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....9eef47fc73.png

Originally Posted by LeadSled (Post 10356545)
Sunfish,
One supportable analysis (meaning reasonably neutral or unbiased numbers) shows that the only state where an electric car would be "more green" in Australia would be Tasmania, because the recharge source is mostly hydro power.

Mostly?

Did you realise that when the 240v power / life line broke from the mainland a couple of years back, that some hundred large generators were shipped to Tasmania to generate enough power for them to survive? One site alone had more than 25 shipping container sized generators.

This in turn created a diesel shortage in Tasmania and in response the government brought over a ship full of diesel and parked it off Hobart for months. One site alone in the hills near Hobart used some 3 B-Doubles of diesel fuel every day!

Not very green eh?

Donít believe everything you hear or read!!!


LeadSled 10th Jan 2019 08:14


Originally Posted by Squawk7700 (Post 10356573)
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....9eef47fc73.png


Mostly?

Did you realise that when the 240v power / life line broke from the mainland a couple of years back, that some hundred large generators were shipped to Tasmania to generate enough power for them to survive? One site alone had more than 25 shipping container sized generators.

This in turn created a diesel shortage in Tasmania and in response the government brought over a ship full of diesel and parked it off Hobart for months. One site alone in the hills near Hobart used some 3 B-Doubles of diesel fuel every day!
Not very green eh?
Donít believe everything you hear or read!!!

SQ7700,
No, of course I k now nothing about that, or anything else, for that matter, in your view.

Why don't you grow up, and read what is written, in the spirit it is written, rather than looking fro something, with which to disagree. A hopefully one-off problem with the Tasmania to the big island inter connector did not invalidate the premise of the study --- which showed that, for a long time in the future, the source of power for overnight charging of electric car batteries will be from coal, so only shifting the "pollution" somewhere else, compared to petrol/diesel vehicles.

My original post was about the real cost of some "green" technology --- and how inconvenient facts are often omitted ---- it is known as "proponent bias".

As to Prius batteries, two close friends have both had problems with the battery pack, their dealer has said that their "problems" are not "problems", and seem as much age related as distance traveled, about five years. In each case the common usage has been short distance commuting, not country travel, so the batteries get worked. Neither is a proponent of "global warming" caused by "CO2 pollution", that is not why they bought the cars, they bought them in expectation of very low costs per km. for a daily commute. They have been disappointed.

I gather that a number of taxi operators in Sydney have had similar experiences.

So, does a Tesla add to or subtract from transport's contribution to "global warming".

Tootle pip!!

PS: Most of those diesel generators, and many more, are now in SA, the "green" state.

Squawk7700 10th Jan 2019 08:29

Ok, so youíre now changing your earlier statement to exclude Tesla batteries as being no good / uneconomical.

If you donít like being flagged as talking BS LS, then refrain from the use of motherhood statements about something you clearly know little about!

I have no issue with you or your alleged knowledge or your opinion, except for when seeeping motherhood statements are made when they are clearly incorrect.


cattletruck 10th Jan 2019 08:36

How long would the batteries last on a Prius or Tesla if every journey they made, both long and short, was at near max continuous power? Not long at all.

I'm not sure if a drone can do translational lift, especially the ducted fan variety. On the other hand, a teleporter can do translational lift quite well.
Then there's the dreaded vortex-ring-state - the nerds designing this thing should be very afraid of VRS and any attributions made by forum posters.

Andy_RR 10th Jan 2019 10:25

I'm sure the nerds designing these things are fully aware of all the issues raised by random internet users...

George Glass 10th Jan 2019 12:32

Yeah, right Andy. I'll believe it when one of the nerds is happy to wave "Bon Voyage" to his family on the short hop to the airport in the sparkly new Uber unmanned electric drone.

27/09 11th Jan 2019 00:16


Originally Posted by Andy_RR (Post 10356829)
I'm sure the nerds designing these things are fully aware of all the issues raised by random internet users...

I think the nerds designing these things most likely think they are designing an up scaled toy drone. I rather suspect they are not familiar with FAR 23 nor the finer points of operations into and out of confined spaces and or high aviation traffic areas.

Andy_RR 11th Jan 2019 01:52

I think they know a f%$&-load more than the nay-sayers on this thread about designing aircraft and VTOLs and FAR23 and all that stuff and more. Not only that, they know enough about finding the financial backing to do something which is the stumbling block here in Australia before CASA ever is!

LeadSled 11th Jan 2019 01:59

Folks,
For something really interesting, look up BlackFly, by Opener Inc., on YouTube.
And it is real, not a bunch of gunnah's.
VTOL for the novice.
With the pace of modern development, never say never.
Tootle pip!!

PS: 601 ---- Coal fired cars ---- love it, and correct for the foreseeable future in AU.

Ascend Charlie 11th Jan 2019 02:52

Yeah Blackfly, more like Blowfly, ridiculous hover attitude, rounded bottom (no landing gear) single seat, and each prop makes an amazing amount of noise.

"Never be a success in Oz".

George Glass 11th Jan 2019 03:34

Well, Andy turns out I've had interesting discussions with people such as engineers at Ausnet and others who are VERY sceptical about the current infatuation with lithium batteries. They are a mature technology and are about at their theoretical limits already. Large scale batteries for dispatchable power are especially problematic. Huge cost for tiny amounts of energy. Look up the specs. for Musks battery in S.A. A joke.
Oh, and best not to make too many assumptions about the people you are talking to. Some of us have qualifications outside aviation. Sometimes "nay-saying" is just a touch of realism. Why dont you put your money where your mouth is and stump up some cash for one of these miraculous endeavours and see how you go?

LeadSled 11th Jan 2019 04:32


Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie (Post 10357538)
Yeah Blackfly, more like Blowfly, ridiculous hover attitude, rounded bottom (no landing gear) single seat, and each prop makes an amazing amount of noise.

"Never be a success in Oz".

A Charlie,
Of course, I understand completely, what you saw was the one, the only, without any prospect of development, change, improvement, etc.
Let's face it, the Wright Flyer was just an impractical toy, clearly as a starting point for something called "aviation" it was a dead end with no future.
"A Charlie" --- how appropriate.
Tootle pip!!

PS: If I had the spare change, I would buy a BlackFly V3 just for the shear fun of it.

Andy_RR 11th Jan 2019 05:33


Originally Posted by George Glass (Post 10357547)
Well, Andy ...

Why dont you put your money where your mouth is and stump up some cash for one of these miraculous endeavours and see how you go?

I am putting my own money into my own (possibly) miraculous endeavour. I'll see how I go. Unlike some commenters, I am also following what's happening with a spreadsheet of calcs to guestimate what people are doing in terms of range, payload, hover power, etc because it helps in my quest to establish the envelope of the possible. From my work, I don't think you need huge batteries to be useful - certainly a fraction of what a Telsa is carrying about. I think 40kWh tops for something that is useful. Obviously not for the ‹ber model of carting five people about but as a single-seater for useful short cross-country work.

Andy_RR 11th Jan 2019 05:41

Just in case you think that Li-ion battery technology isn't going anywhere, have a look at this: (I don't think you need any translation from the Czech to figure out what he's on about


https://www.he3da.com/

machtuk 11th Jan 2019 10:06


Originally Posted by Andy_RR (Post 10357578)
Just in case you think that Li-ion battery technology isn't going anywhere, have a look at this: (I don't think you need any translation from the Czech to figure out what he's on about

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe4FJBDfhOM

https://www.he3da.com/

Andy they should make you CEO of a future Co specialising in these contraptions as your about the only one who is a believer...lololol

cattletruck 11th Jan 2019 10:23

In the motor vehicle industry we are now getting traditional V8 power out of small 4-pot internal combustion engines, and all it took was some tightening of the emission regs. There is a lot of energy stored in liquid based fuels, and the technology to convert every last Joule from that fuel into useful power is expanding rapidly. I'm sure similar efficiencies can be had with turbine engines. It's just a matter of where you apply the best talent to the most realistic outcomes. If you set them playing with toys then that's all they'll ever produce.

Sunfish 11th Jan 2019 21:40

Cattle truck, that is a wrong reading of the automotive world. The GM and Ford engineers told me in 1985 when I was consulting, that their response to fuel prices would be to use little engines and turbo the hell out of them. The technology has been around for a long time, itís just that the market didnít want to pay for it at the time.

If we have a battery chemistry breakthrough then drones. Otherwise forget them as people movers.

machtuk 11th Jan 2019 22:22


Originally Posted by Sunfish (Post 10358306)
Cattle truck, that is a wrong reading of the automotive world. The GM and Ford engineers told me in 1985 when I was consulting, that their response to fuel prices would be to use little engines and turbo the hell out of them. The technology has been around for a long time, itís just that the market didnít want to pay for it at the time.

If we have a battery chemistry breakthrough then drones. Otherwise forget them as people movers.

I'm with you sunny, efficiency has come from turbos, gearing and fine tuning the current technology. I am of the belief that we have pretty much reached the limits on the OTTO cycle design and the turbine reaction design, only minor increases In Specific FF will be gained due 'fiddling' but nothing of significance, it's over. Motor/Battery technology at the moment is akin to an old clunkerV8 form back in the side valve days, we have a LONG way to go to get the duration out of the stored energy devices needed to power these fanciful contraptions👍
The future is exciting but we are nowhere near it yet!🙂


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