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Originally Posted by 10JQKA
(Post 10544391)
Which Tranche & which part ? E over D at regional TWRs vice C or Lowered E base to F125 from F180 in the bush or Insertion of C F180 to F245 & lifting of A in high density areas or All of the above ? |
That's why it works in the US. 'Have you got a plan in the system' 'remain outside controlled airspace' (no matter what the traffic disposition is) I know how it works, got experience from both sides of the fence. And in both countries. Go over to the States, hire an aircraft and see how it works, if you are not a pilot, arrange a security clearance, sit beside one of your tower comrades and watch them work it. While you're there, they'll explain to you the term 'cleared the option' something that will NEVER happen in ASA land. |
Unless cleared the option means something else in the states it is definitely used in ASA land. (Cleared missed approach/touch and go/stop and go/land)
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Originally Posted by atcnews
(Post 10546430)
Lowering E to F125, changing C and A. E over D hasn't gone to CASA yet.
The E over D vice C at regional TWRs is the big one, so let’s hope sanity prevails in due course. |
There’s E over D vice D at a number of towered places in Australia now. The people who decided to do that don’t seem to be insane, and it doesn’t seem to have resulted in aluminium confetti. Not sure why C to E would be such an insane move either. |
Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
(Post 10547249)
There’s E over D vice D at a number of towered places in Australia now. The people who decided to do that don’t seem to be insane, and it doesn’t seem to have resulted in aluminium confetti. Not sure why C to E would be such an insane move either. Broome ATSB Repcon refers https://www.atsb.gov.au/repcon/2018/ar201800058/ Nothing to see here ? CASA Broome/Karratha Airspace Review, consultation closed now, findings expected by 30/09/19 https://consultation.casa.gov.au/off...0WA%202019.pdf https://consultation.casa.gov.au/off...-and-karratha/ Suppose the question is, if it has problems where it already operates in low density ports it doesn’t add up to consider it for busy eastern seaboard regional TWRd ports does it ? The Tranche 3 proposal if anyone interested, http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/...nche-Three.pdf |
Unless cleared the option means something else in the states it is definitely used in ASA land. (Cleared missed approach/touch and go/stop and go/land) And would you mind pasting the MATS reference, in my experience there is zero chance an ATC in Australia would use a reference that is not in MATS. |
If it's not in MATS then absolutely they use a reference that's not in MATS, I have been "cleared for the option" many, many times.
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I've used 'the option' heaps when I wore a blue suit. IIRC, the pilot had to ask for it. Same call as 'base, touch and go' or 'base, full stop'. AIP GEN 3.4 - 76 has 'the option' phraseology in it so it is available. It is marked as ICAO silent, hence maybe why our American friends use it - they seem to have a few differences registered.
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Originally Posted by The name is Porter
(Post 10547430)
uhhhhm, yeah, OK. Where?
And would you mind pasting the MATS reference, in my experience there is zero chance an ATC in Australia would use a reference that is not in MATS. |
If it's not in MATS then absolutely they use a reference that's not in MATS, I have been "cleared for the option" many, many times. |
I've used 'the option' heaps when I wore a blue suit. |
Originally Posted by 10JQKA
(Post 10547279)
Broome ATSB Repcon refers https://www.atsb.gov.au/repcon/2018/ar201800058/ Nothing to see here ? CASA Broome/Karratha Airspace Review, consultation closed now, findings expected by 30/09/19 https://consultation.casa.gov.au/off...0WA%202019.pdf https://consultation.casa.gov.au/off...-and-karratha/ Suppose the question is, if it has problems where it already operates in low density ports it doesn’t add up to consider it for busy eastern seaboard regional TWRd ports does it ? The Tranche 3 proposal if anyone interested, http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/...nche-Three.pdf The reporter states that Broome's Class D airspace is overlain by Class E airspace which allows low performance VFR aircraft (usually piloted by less experienced crew) to be a necessary traffic concern to high performance IFR aircraft in both regular passenger transport (RPT) & charter operations during critical flight phases. RPT aircraft broadcast any pending departure or descent on the relevant Centre frequency. The intent of this is to provide traffic awareness to potential conflicting VFR traffic. The reporter believes that RPT aircraft should not be placed in this position, when the arriving aerodrome is class D (like the structure of Class ADs in eastern states). While some opportunity for coordination may be afforded during descent, the effectiveness of the departure broadcasts is questionable as (presumably) the broadcaster is then dealing with Broome Ground and Tower frequency until they are climbing into Class E. When the broadcaster contacts Centre frequency, and becomes identified, it usually occurs well above 5,500 ft, which is too late for any avoiding action. The reporter believes there is a safety risk in high performance aircraft having a gap between provided separation during a critical phase of flight. The reporter advises that points two and three of Broome’s ERSA flight procedures are insufficient and suggests the airspace be redesigned to provide Class C services down to at least the top of Class D altitudes on major arrival routing, as is procedure in eastern states. Reporters comments: “Overall, Class E airspace is quite a pointless concept but never so ridiculously applied as overhead a major destination between Class D and C airspace.” One wonders how the reporter would cope with "low performance VFR aircraft (usually piloted by less experienced crew)" while the reporter is flying "high performance RPT" aircraft in and out of aerodromes in G. |
Originally Posted by The name is Porter
(Post 10547451)
Where was that please?
You should try GEN 3.4-76 under 6. Landing - in the notes bit on the left. Also can you point out in MATS where the phraseology to clear a a touch and go is if that part of AIP is not good enough. I've issued it many many times at Jandakot and Karratha. I don't which tower you worked at, but I am sure these 2 places are not the only ones to use it. |
Originally Posted by The name is Porter
(Post 10547452)
RAAF-land is different to ASA, very!
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TNIP: The upshot of the discussion so far appears to me to be that because there's some radio phraseology in that part of AIP, the procedure anticipated by that phraseology exists and is authorised. Go figure...
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Awol57,
I'm asking where the phrase was used in Australia? Where BigPapi was cleared the option? On multiple occasions. If it's at a RAAF controlled aerodrome, it doesn't count. The RAAF controllers work under very different rules than Civilian. I worked very briefly in a tower. However, I'm talking from a pilots perspective, I've never heard it used in 30 years of flying. It's been established that it's in AIP. |
Jandakot tower uses it regularly. It's been used in Karratha.
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Thankyou. I've only flown there once.
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Used at Archerfield all the time.
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