Instructor Wages
 

I am looking for a real survey of realistic wages for a flight instructor in East Coast Australia.
People I have asked are ranging dramatically, one guy even included his super as part of his wage !!!! (tying to make him self look good I think)
There have been heaps of jobs advertised lately, Thinking of doing an instructor rating and getting back into GA after 10 years in Regionals.

One class 1 chap claimed he was on 80k AUD.

I hear UNSW pays over 80k to its g3 instructors. The rest of us are probably around the award at 42k.

If a agreement is made and that agreement is greater than the award + the required super - then the super can, and often is deducted from the "wage" legally.

If you are paid an award or under an EBA, super is an added cost to those wages.

So yes a person can be on a personal agreement for $80,000 pa including super (and O/T or even shift penalties) but it depends on the base award rate.

So $73,000 + 9.5% = around $80,000.
That is around $36 per hour no shift and no loading.
Or $30 per hour on a 20% loading.

The minimum wage in 2 weeks will be very close to $19 per hour

If you're in Sydney (and especially if you're ex-airline) talk to UNSW. They do pay well over award and are looking for experienced instructors; couldn't tell you the precise salary but they're uni wages, not GA.

Those rates are tough to live on I find. I find the discrepancy between the hourly rate that some of you quote and the dual-solo price difference quite significant actually. Dual rates are often $100 more expensive than solo ones. So if the grade 3 instructors make anywhere between $19 and, say, $40, does the operator pocket the rest (after super deductions)?

1/. Under the award, you are not entitled to claim pay for hours you have not flown. You weren't on board your student's aircraft when they did their solo (I hope).
2/. If a casual instructor is paid something for their student's solo flight time, that's a deal with their employer.
3/. To get an hourly award rate, divide the rates quoted above by Tulsami by 800 and multiply by 1.25

• (e) On each occasion a casual pilot is required to attend work the pilot is entitled to minimum payment as follows:
  
  
  

[11.3(e)(i) substituted by PR503362 from 01Nov10]

•  
  • (i) for a period of duty (including rostered stand-by) of four hours or less,a minimum payment of two hours;and
    
    (ii) for a period of duty (including rostered stand-by) exceeding four hours,a minimum of four hours.
    
    
  • Is the students instructor required to attend the students solo flight?

I'm not familiar with that award scheme that is being mentioned here. However from the above I am assuming that 800 is the expected number of hours a year an instructor will clock in. What is the 1.25 factor for?

Doing the math, you find that those lads will earn $43k/800*1.25 = $67 hourly. However I'm more interested in the fact that they'll clock in between around 15-16 hours of flight time a week which seems rather a low figure given that each day has roughly 8-10 hours of flyable time (granted: not in Mebourne at this time of the year :ugh:).

If these kids need 1500 hours to qualify for jobs at regionals, that's ~ $300k at the solo rate of $250 and assuming that they obtained roughly 300h by the end of their CPL (wild guess). Of course, I'd advise travelling to South Africa where the solo rate is around half of Aussie ones.

So here's the thing: Instead of spending 1.5 to 2 years instructing (800 hours/year) in C172, wouldn't it be financially wiser to borrow $150k while rates are low, rake in that flight time in a country where solo rates are cheaper within 4-6 months, land that first FO job at a regional and start earning better money faster?

Other option: buy a cheap C152 and do a flight time marathon in it. That's financially probably better that burning cash at a hire rate.

Your thoughts?

Are there really people paying instructors between $19 and $40 per hour? A casual Grade Three should be getting $67.19. The gap between that and the hire and dual rate also has to cover their super, compo, uniforms, standardisation checks, insurance, the overheads of the school etc.

There are still some operators who do "sham contracting" and should be reported to Fair Work .

I did not claim that $19 per hour was for an instructor, but is pretty close to the Australian minimum wage for a full time/part time employee (generally for a 38 hour week and around 2,000 hours per year). So say $38,000 per year for zero skills.

Is there still a maximum time limit that an employee can have a pilot as a casual?

Bend Alot
Yes, quite. You are correct. I was rushing out the door to go flying.
Presumably the instructor is on the premises and getting paid accordingly... but you would agree that the pay received is not directly related to the duration of the student's solo flight.
Okihara
If an applicant came to my company and said "I have 1500 hours of command time which I paid for myself and I would like a job, please" the answer would be a simple no. I would also be very surprised if any airline's answer would be any different. It's not a matter of hours, champ, it's a matter of EXPERIENCE. The hours, if gained in a commercial pilot context, are indicative (although not always correctly so) of exposure to a certain level and intensity of professional experience.

1500 hours of tooling around at your own expense and to your own devices, outside of any supervision, additional training, professional discipline, without formal guidance and mentoring strikes me as the worst possible gestation for a pilot who would presumably then be seeking a lifetime of employment within a system which has very high levels of supervision, ongoing training, professional discipline, formal guidance, and so on.

Agree 100% that the payment is not directly related to the students flight.

But I disagree that a flat no, is warranted for a 1,500 hour pilot that has paid their way by being an aircraft owner of a C152 for what would be the best part of 3 years.

I would love to hear the unexpected stories of that adventure first - buying a plane is the cheap part!

there used to be a 800 hr year limit for commercial pilots. If I log a 6 hour day of instructing flying I tend to sleep pretty soundly that night - it gets tiring.

You will find 800 hours a year a pretty full year.

as mentioned by Horatio, a pilot who had 1500 hrs working as an instructor or other GA operator would be looked on more favourably than someone with 1500 hours all private flying.

Achieving an instructor rating (and also working as an instructor) will teach you a lot of things about aviation and flying, way beyond just hours in your log book.

That said, I would say, if all you want is just hours for a FO slot, don't do instructing. Do instructing (even if it is a stepping stone to 'bigger' things) because you think you will enjoy or learn from it. If you aren't that interested in instructing, look for another GA position that does interest you and build your hours and aviation experience there.

If doing instructing be aware you will need to pay for the instructor rating - they are not cheap and the course itself should not (if done properly) be easy - it should teach you a lot about flying, about how people think in a cockpit (and how to manage that) and also about yourself.

remember to factor into your costs putting around 1400 hours of flying on the aircraft. That will be 14 x 100 hourly inspections and unless you bought it with a low hour engine and prop you likely will need to do a major engine + prop overhaul in that time - keeping aircraft flying is not cheap (although if you are doing bigger hours hours in a year it probably becomes cheaper to buy than hire but you would need to be doing at least 300+ hrs/year to make it worthwhile - and it can still bite you if you have unplanned maintenance costs)

MY thoughts are, if you really want to work in aviation, look at getting a entry level GA flying job (might be instructing if you think you would like it) rather than simply getting experience by flying privately.

These are all very interesting points. In fact, I'm more interested in understanding why the bloke in the right seat is there in the first place than out of personal interest in working in the aviation scene.

Are there other areas than GA for aspiring airline pilots who have received their CPL? Can they work in freight/cargo for instance? I'm guessing that instruction is not everyone cup of tea and that should be fine as long as they have other pathways to the clouds.

Freight/cargo is either GA or the aspiring point of an airline pilot.

There are many hour building jobs in the trades game - be a trade assistant that fly's the tradesman to the job. From hydraulics, air conditioners, plumbing, vets and IT to name a few.

I think you will find that there is no such thing as trade assistant anymore. It has been knocked on the head years ago due to insurance reasons. Well...at least in NSW, don't know about the rest of the country. I have been warned by Fair Trading that I can only employ qualified personell.

What is the 1.25 factor for?

The 25% loading is because casual workers do not have sick or holiday pay entitlements.

The time is rapidly approaching where the entry level wage for a Commercial Instructor will need to be about $80,000 p.a. and rise to over $120k for advanced training work. If any Tradie can earn $70 to $90 per hour and get paid for total time on duty it should be a wake-up call that G.A. will need to offer similar conditions to attract and keep suitable people.
Sure, this will increase the cost of learning to fly, but savvy flight school operators are investing seriously large bucks in new aircraft to capture the market. Having a million dollar training fleet grounded due to lack of instructors will put someone out of business far quicker than doubling instructor wages. For students having to ultimately absorb these costs this is probably the first time in many years that career earning potential will quickly recoup the investment.

At Recreational PPL level small Mum and Pop operators running a couple of 40 year old bugsmashers won't be able to handle this, but it is hardly reason for professional instructors who have already invested over $100,000 and a couple of years' hard graft in their own future to settle for Macca's wages.

Hear hear Mach E A! :ok:

TVSA in Melbourne are currently advertising for a Deputy HOO position, paying $170k + super.

These salaries in GA instructing would've simply not be seen 5 years ago. CAR217 operators are paying $150k-200k for T&C personnel and will be interesting to see how things pan out later this year as Duck Pilot suggests when the transition is "complete".

I suggest that the Part 119 and 135 operating rules will finish up a number of smaller operators and the pilot supply problem in GA will ease for a bit.

Responding to the original post at the beginning of this topic, i correctly recall about a month ago,
there was instructor jobs advertised on the afap website for a large operator at Bankstown airport/Sydney,
offering 80k for GDE1/MEIFR instructors plus super, the university flying school, also advertised for a GDE1/MEIFR person,
salary was from 77k to 87k, plus 13 to 17% super.

Instructor wages for grade 1 are in excess of 62K, that would probably be the salary for a gde 2 instructor.

The figures aren't mickey mouse, people are actually earning above 70K for instructing.
It's a specialist job.
Have a weekly look at the afap website.

Given the cost of living in any decent city, $70k is still a 'mickey mouse' salary for any professional or trade-qualified person.
When I suggested $80k I was thinking that will be the new rate industry will have to pay for a Grade Three. Grade Ones will be in such demand they will easily be able to pull $120k, and for more advanced turbine twin training etc I reckon operators will have to go even higher.
As customers expect the latest equipment for their training, and CASA requirements become ever more stringent, instructor induction costs increase. Operators won't want a high instructor turnover. Instructing needs to become a career in its own right rather than the typical short term hour building caper it currently is for most.

That is one of the realities the Industry has to face-that being an Instructor must be recognised as critical and remunerated accordingly. As a TRI/TRE I receive a Training Allowance of $USD2800 pm net in addition to my salary as recognition that it is one of the most important and safety critical areas for the company. Not considering exchange rate a Senior Grade 1 Instructor with Testing Privileges should be earning the same ie $120k or $150k if you include exchange rates. Pay this and you will have made it a viable career option as now the remuneration would be adequate to stay teaching for people passionate about it.

Mach E, I couldn't agree more. I have a good friend who manages a bar in Sydney and gets $120K plus some extraordinary bonuses that take the package to $160K plus. He holds no qualifications whatsoever except the mandatory "responsible alcohol serving" crap and left school at 16.

I have a Grade 1 instructor rating with a heap of approvals and wouldn't move to a capital city to work for less than $200K, in the case of Sydney this amount would be required to have any standard of living.

I remember seeing a thread on here about 6 months ago with a list of wages of most RPT operators in Oz. I can't fint it in the search, does anyone have any idea of the thread title ?

Is it not called "Wages Down Under"?

The search function on the site didn't help, but Google did. Here is the Pprune link to the thread.

As a Gr 1 instructor I was on $145k, and that was 5 years ago. The senior boss who held the most approvals was on $250k.

They are sensible numbers. The numbers in post #4 - which I have no reason to doubt - are just rubbish. I was recently offered a free instructor rating course, but the salary is just not worth the effort.

Are these figures accurate? I have no reason to doubt any of you but the change has been so rapid and extreme its simply hard to comprehend. As someone who will soon be going down the instructor path in all likelihood I have always been resided to the reality of $25k a year if I was lucky!

HI there guys.
I've been searching the web for an answer to my questions with little success so far. Got in touch with flight schools but, again, no luck. Probably my emails tend to get missed in the process or be considered as spam.:ugh:
Anyway, lets get to the point. I'm currently working/studying towards my ATPL (A) in Portugal (under EASA requirements) and thinking about going down under to get my FIR. It might doesn't make any sense but as a former OZ resident, I'd really love to try my luck in that beautiful country.
I've seen the requirements and none of the schools asks for a CASA license to start the FIR. The rest I should be able to comply with by the time I finish the course here.
So, I'm just wondering what my real chances are as an "alien" trying to get a job in such an "exquisite" market. As per this thread, the pay might not be ideal but it is a sacrifice that I'm willing to take towards a big dream of mine. Do you guys have any advice?
Cheers

My 2c

I think you would need to convert to an Australian CPL first before you can start an instructor rating course. I don't think that would be a huge hurdle if you were serious about working here. The CPL theory exams are not at ATPL level.

You also would need to pass a CPL flight test. Depends a bit on your training and experience as to how close you are to doing that. (The flight test is basically done as a pretend 'charter flight' where the instructor will give you a task to fly to several destinations then introduce some difficulties and changes during the flight, test your flying skills are within tolerances, check your ability to handle problems and make sensible judgement calls and test your ability to operate in various airspaces, all to a sound level).

You probably could organise to do the flight test (and preparatory work you may need leading up to that) with the flight school where you would be doing the instructor rating prior to starting the instructor course.

I also assume you have (or are confident you can obtain) Australian residency? You obviously will need the appropriate rights to work in Australia.

My opinion is if you are enthusiastic about instructing, show good aptitude and potential and relate well to people, I think you certainly will get work here. In demand Instructors have sound skills, relate well to people, have a competent and calm manner in the cockpit and have a passion for teaching. If you show that, you will do well. It is not the most well paid (or glamorous) end of flying but if you enjoy it, it can be very personally rewarding.

Well, that might be the biggest obstacle to overcome. I spent 2 years in Australia back in 2015 with a student visa. It has its limitations in regards to the weekly working hours permitted. I was thinking about getting some sort of sponsorship but I'm aware that flight schools can encounter difficulties justifying the reason why they are employing a foreigner when there are a lot of Australian pilots who could easily do the job. This is something to be asked to the flight schools when the time comes.
Anyway, thank you for your feedback. It was very helpful. I'll definitely try my luck in Australia either as a FI or via other way. :)

Realistic flight instructor wages, as advertised on the afap site this month.

A major Perth flying school advertised today, but this time, added real figures,
salary of 50 to 60K for gde 2 to 1 instructors.

A few weeks ago a major Melbourne flying school advertised for gde 2 to 1 instructors,
salary 60 to 70K, plus super.

I'd say, a salary of 60 to 70K, is a realistic flight instructor wage, for a gde 2 or 1 instructor these days.

I know of some Grade 1 ME IFR instructors on $80k+ a year. However, I would suggest that the majority of Grade 1 instructors at the bigger school would be anywhere from 60k to 75k depending.

I think the last 12-24 months has seen a big change in what flying schools are having to offer in order to gain the instructing force they require.

Calculation of Base Salary
 

I've had a look the Air Pilot Award 2010.

As a grade II instructor with IRTA I am getting paid under the "Co-pilot - Class 2" but I exercise the privileges a Command Instrument Rating. Total 51K

1. B.1.8 A pilot who is required to carry out flight instruction using the privileges of an instrument rating will be paid the appropriate additional allowance as follows

Instrument flying rating Percentage of standard rate%
Command or Class 1 732
Co-pilot or Class 2 476
Night VFR or Class 4 183

Anyone able to shed some light if this is correct or what the hell a Co-Pilot/Class 2 instrument rating even is? The award has no definitions for this which leaves you at the mercy of employer interpretation.