Instructor Wages
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Instructor Wages
I am looking for a real survey of realistic wages for a flight instructor in East Coast Australia.
People I have asked are ranging dramatically, one guy even included his super as part of his wage !!!! (tying to make him self look good I think)
There have been heaps of jobs advertised lately, Thinking of doing an instructor rating and getting back into GA after 10 years in Regionals.
One class 1 chap claimed he was on 80k AUD.
People I have asked are ranging dramatically, one guy even included his super as part of his wage !!!! (tying to make him self look good I think)
There have been heaps of jobs advertised lately, Thinking of doing an instructor rating and getting back into GA after 10 years in Regionals.
One class 1 chap claimed he was on 80k AUD.
I am looking for a real survey of realistic wages for a flight instructor in East Coast Australia.
People I have asked are ranging dramatically, one guy even included his super as part of his wage !!!! (tying to make him self look good I think)
There have been heaps of jobs advertised lately, Thinking of doing an instructor rating and getting back into GA after 10 years in Regionals.
One class 1 chap claimed he was on 80k AUD.
People I have asked are ranging dramatically, one guy even included his super as part of his wage !!!! (tying to make him self look good I think)
There have been heaps of jobs advertised lately, Thinking of doing an instructor rating and getting back into GA after 10 years in Regionals.
One class 1 chap claimed he was on 80k AUD.
If a agreement is made and that agreement is greater than the award + the required super - then the super can, and often is deducted from the "wage" legally.
If you are paid an award or under an EBA, super is an added cost to those wages.
So yes a person can be on a personal agreement for $80,000 pa including super (and O/T or even shift penalties) but it depends on the base award rate.
So $73,000 + 9.5% = around $80,000.
That is around $36 per hour no shift and no loading.
Or $30 per hour on a 20% loading.
The minimum wage in 2 weeks will be very close to $19 per hour
If you're in Sydney (and especially if you're ex-airline) talk to UNSW. They do pay well over award and are looking for experienced instructors; couldn't tell you the precise salary but they're uni wages, not GA.
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Those rates are tough to live on I find. I find the discrepancy between the hourly rate that some of you quote and the dual-solo price difference quite significant actually. Dual rates are often $100 more expensive than solo ones. So if the grade 3 instructors make anywhere between $19 and, say, $40, does the operator pocket the rest (after super deductions)?
I find the discrepancy between the hourly rate that some of you quote and the dual-solo price difference quite significant actually.
2/. If a casual instructor is paid something for their student's solo flight time, that's a deal with their employer.
3/. To get an hourly award rate, divide the rates quoted above by Tulsami by 800 and multiply by 1.25
1/. Under the award, you are not entitled to claim pay for hours you have not flown. You weren't on board your student's aircraft when they did their solo (I hope).
2/. If a casual instructor is paid something for their student's solo flight time, that's a deal with their employer.
3/. To get an hourly award rate, divide the rates quoted above by Tulsami by 800 and multiply by 1.25
2/. If a casual instructor is paid something for their student's solo flight time, that's a deal with their employer.
3/. To get an hourly award rate, divide the rates quoted above by Tulsami by 800 and multiply by 1.25
- (e) On each occasion a casual pilot is required to attend work the pilot is entitled to minimum payment as follows:
-
- (i) for a period of duty (including rostered stand-by) of four hours or less,a minimum payment of two hours;and
(ii) for a period of duty (including rostered stand-by) exceeding four hours,a minimum of four hours.
- Is the students instructor required to attend the students solo flight?
- (i) for a period of duty (including rostered stand-by) of four hours or less,a minimum payment of two hours;and
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1/. Under the award, you are not entitled to claim pay for hours you have not flown. You weren't on board your student's aircraft when they did their solo (I hope).
2/. If a casual instructor is paid something for their student's solo flight time, that's a deal with their employer.
3/. To get an hourly award rate, divide the rates quoted above by Tulsami by 800 and multiply by 1.25
2/. If a casual instructor is paid something for their student's solo flight time, that's a deal with their employer.
3/. To get an hourly award rate, divide the rates quoted above by Tulsami by 800 and multiply by 1.25
Doing the math, you find that those lads will earn $43k/800*1.25 = $67 hourly. However I'm more interested in the fact that they'll clock in between around 15-16 hours of flight time a week which seems rather a low figure given that each day has roughly 8-10 hours of flyable time (granted: not in Mebourne at this time of the year ).
If these kids need 1500 hours to qualify for jobs at regionals, that's ~ $300k at the solo rate of $250 and assuming that they obtained roughly 300h by the end of their CPL (wild guess). Of course, I'd advise travelling to South Africa where the solo rate is around half of Aussie ones.
So here's the thing: Instead of spending 1.5 to 2 years instructing (800 hours/year) in C172, wouldn't it be financially wiser to borrow $150k while rates are low, rake in that flight time in a country where solo rates are cheaper within 4-6 months, land that first FO job at a regional and start earning better money faster?
Other option: buy a cheap C152 and do a flight time marathon in it. That's financially probably better that burning cash at a hire rate.
Your thoughts?
Are there really people paying instructors between $19 and $40 per hour? A casual Grade Three should be getting $67.19. The gap between that and the hire and dual rate also has to cover their super, compo, uniforms, standardisation checks, insurance, the overheads of the school etc.
There are still some operators who do "sham contracting" and should be reported to Fair Work .
There are still some operators who do "sham contracting" and should be reported to Fair Work .
Are there really people paying instructors between $19 and $40 per hour? A casual Grade Three should be getting $67.19. The gap between that and the hire and dual rate also has to cover their super, compo, uniforms, standardisation checks, insurance, the overheads of the school etc.
There are still some operators who do "sham contracting" and should be reported to Fair Work .
There are still some operators who do "sham contracting" and should be reported to Fair Work .
Is there still a maximum time limit that an employee can have a pilot as a casual?
Bend Alot
Yes, quite. You are correct. I was rushing out the door to go flying.
Presumably the instructor is on the premises and getting paid accordingly... but you would agree that the pay received is not directly related to the duration of the student's solo flight.
Okihara
If an applicant came to my company and said "I have 1500 hours of command time which I paid for myself and I would like a job, please" the answer would be a simple no. I would also be very surprised if any airline's answer would be any different. It's not a matter of hours, champ, it's a matter of EXPERIENCE. The hours, if gained in a commercial pilot context, are indicative (although not always correctly so) of exposure to a certain level and intensity of professional experience.
1500 hours of tooling around at your own expense and to your own devices, outside of any supervision, additional training, professional discipline, without formal guidance and mentoring strikes me as the worst possible gestation for a pilot who would presumably then be seeking a lifetime of employment within a system which has very high levels of supervision, ongoing training, professional discipline, formal guidance, and so on.
- (e) On each occasion a casual pilot is required to attend work the pilot is entitled to minimum payment as follows:
-
- (i) for a period of duty (including rostered stand-by) of four hours or less,a minimum payment of two hours;and
(ii) for a period of duty (including rostered stand-by) exceeding four hours,a minimum of four hours. - Is the students instructor required to attend the students solo flight?
- (i) for a period of duty (including rostered stand-by) of four hours or less,a minimum payment of two hours;and
Presumably the instructor is on the premises and getting paid accordingly... but you would agree that the pay received is not directly related to the duration of the student's solo flight.
Okihara
If an applicant came to my company and said "I have 1500 hours of command time which I paid for myself and I would like a job, please" the answer would be a simple no. I would also be very surprised if any airline's answer would be any different. It's not a matter of hours, champ, it's a matter of EXPERIENCE. The hours, if gained in a commercial pilot context, are indicative (although not always correctly so) of exposure to a certain level and intensity of professional experience.
1500 hours of tooling around at your own expense and to your own devices, outside of any supervision, additional training, professional discipline, without formal guidance and mentoring strikes me as the worst possible gestation for a pilot who would presumably then be seeking a lifetime of employment within a system which has very high levels of supervision, ongoing training, professional discipline, formal guidance, and so on.
Bend Alot
Yes, quite. You are correct. I was rushing out the door to go flying.
Presumably the instructor is on the premises and getting paid accordingly... but you would agree that the pay received is not directly related to the duration of the student's solo flight.
Okihara
If an applicant came to my company and said "I have 1500 hours of command time which I paid for myself and I would like a job, please" the answer would be a simple no. I would also be very surprised if any airline's answer would be any different. It's not a matter of hours, champ, it's a matter of EXPERIENCE. The hours, if gained in a commercial pilot context, are indicative (although not always correctly so) of exposure to a certain level and intensity of professional experience.
1500 hours of tooling around at your own expense and to your own devices, outside of any supervision, additional training, professional discipline, without formal guidance and mentoring strikes me as the worst possible gestation for a pilot who would presumably then be seeking a lifetime of employment within a system which has very high levels of supervision, ongoing training, professional discipline, formal guidance, and so on.
Yes, quite. You are correct. I was rushing out the door to go flying.
Presumably the instructor is on the premises and getting paid accordingly... but you would agree that the pay received is not directly related to the duration of the student's solo flight.
Okihara
If an applicant came to my company and said "I have 1500 hours of command time which I paid for myself and I would like a job, please" the answer would be a simple no. I would also be very surprised if any airline's answer would be any different. It's not a matter of hours, champ, it's a matter of EXPERIENCE. The hours, if gained in a commercial pilot context, are indicative (although not always correctly so) of exposure to a certain level and intensity of professional experience.
1500 hours of tooling around at your own expense and to your own devices, outside of any supervision, additional training, professional discipline, without formal guidance and mentoring strikes me as the worst possible gestation for a pilot who would presumably then be seeking a lifetime of employment within a system which has very high levels of supervision, ongoing training, professional discipline, formal guidance, and so on.
But I disagree that a flat no, is warranted for a 1,500 hour pilot that has paid their way by being an aircraft owner of a C152 for what would be the best part of 3 years.
I would love to hear the unexpected stories of that adventure first - buying a plane is the cheap part!
You will find 800 hours a year a pretty full year.
So here's the thing: Instead of spending 1.5 to 2 years instructing (800 hours/year) in C172, wouldn't it be financially wiser to borrow $150k while rates are low, rake in that flight time in a country where solo rates are cheaper within 4-6 months, land that first FO job at a regional and start earning better money faster?
Achieving an instructor rating (and also working as an instructor) will teach you a lot of things about aviation and flying, way beyond just hours in your log book.
That said, I would say, if all you want is just hours for a FO slot, don't do instructing. Do instructing (even if it is a stepping stone to 'bigger' things) because you think you will enjoy or learn from it. If you aren't that interested in instructing, look for another GA position that does interest you and build your hours and aviation experience there.
If doing instructing be aware you will need to pay for the instructor rating - they are not cheap and the course itself should not (if done properly) be easy - it should teach you a lot about flying, about how people think in a cockpit (and how to manage that) and also about yourself.
MY thoughts are, if you really want to work in aviation, look at getting a entry level GA flying job (might be instructing if you think you would like it) rather than simply getting experience by flying privately.
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These are all very interesting points. In fact, I'm more interested in understanding why the bloke in the right seat is there in the first place than out of personal interest in working in the aviation scene.
Are there other areas than GA for aspiring airline pilots who have received their CPL? Can they work in freight/cargo for instance? I'm guessing that instruction is not everyone cup of tea and that should be fine as long as they have other pathways to the clouds.
Are there other areas than GA for aspiring airline pilots who have received their CPL? Can they work in freight/cargo for instance? I'm guessing that instruction is not everyone cup of tea and that should be fine as long as they have other pathways to the clouds.
Freight/cargo is either GA or the aspiring point of an airline pilot.
There are many hour building jobs in the trades game - be a trade assistant that fly's the tradesman to the job. From hydraulics, air conditioners, plumbing, vets and IT to name a few.
There are many hour building jobs in the trades game - be a trade assistant that fly's the tradesman to the job. From hydraulics, air conditioners, plumbing, vets and IT to name a few.
I think you will find that there is no such thing as trade assistant anymore. It has been knocked on the head years ago due to insurance reasons. Well...at least in NSW, don't know about the rest of the country. I have been warned by Fair Trading that I can only employ qualified personell.
Last edited by sms777; 18th Jun 2018 at 03:17. Reason: spelling
What is the 1.25 factor for?
The 25% loading is because casual workers do not have sick or holiday pay entitlements.
The 25% loading is because casual workers do not have sick or holiday pay entitlements.
The time is rapidly approaching where the entry level wage for a Commercial Instructor will need to be about $80,000 p.a. and rise to over $120k for advanced training work. If any Tradie can earn $70 to $90 per hour and get paid for total time on duty it should be a wake-up call that G.A. will need to offer similar conditions to attract and keep suitable people.
Sure, this will increase the cost of learning to fly, but savvy flight school operators are investing seriously large bucks in new aircraft to capture the market. Having a million dollar training fleet grounded due to lack of instructors will put someone out of business far quicker than doubling instructor wages. For students having to ultimately absorb these costs this is probably the first time in many years that career earning potential will quickly recoup the investment.
At Recreational PPL level small Mum and Pop operators running a couple of 40 year old bugsmashers won't be able to handle this, but it is hardly reason for professional instructors who have already invested over $100,000 and a couple of years' hard graft in their own future to settle for Macca's wages.
Sure, this will increase the cost of learning to fly, but savvy flight school operators are investing seriously large bucks in new aircraft to capture the market. Having a million dollar training fleet grounded due to lack of instructors will put someone out of business far quicker than doubling instructor wages. For students having to ultimately absorb these costs this is probably the first time in many years that career earning potential will quickly recoup the investment.
At Recreational PPL level small Mum and Pop operators running a couple of 40 year old bugsmashers won't be able to handle this, but it is hardly reason for professional instructors who have already invested over $100,000 and a couple of years' hard graft in their own future to settle for Macca's wages.
It will be interesting come the 1st of September when the requirement for all RPT operators to have a Part 142 with trainers and checkers who hold FIRs comes into force.