Cyber Bullying Pilots
 

Cyber bullying is an epidemic that mostly affecting prepubescent teenagers. Apparently now this toxic fad has spread into Australian aviation.

A Facebook page called Spuds of Aviation was recently set up and used exclusively to make fun of other pilots. The owners of the page posted screenshots of other pilots who use social media for self promotion, captioned with sarcastic, comments to point out the obvious narcissism in the posts.

The Facebook page has been shut down but an Instagram account still exists.

There are rumors of one of the targets being left mentally in bad shape since being publicly shamed and laughed at by his peers. Those responsible, cowardly hiding being the anonymity of the internet.

Whether or not there is humor to be found in this kind of thing, or how socially twisted the levels of narcissism in the targets are. This is vile behavior and can lead to sad consequences.

What an embarrassing and sad time for us all. Is there any integrity left among pilots? Once upon a time being a pilot was relatively respectable line of work. What is it now?

And consequences such as defamation proceedings.

Some Lawyers absolutely love commencing these actions!

The way I see it, if the victims material comes from a public instagram or facebook profile then its fair game. Reap what you sow. Put yourself out there to what? Impress the commoners or 'pull the chicks'? You deserve to be pulled into line and cop a bit of flack.

However should you keep your content private and somebody leaks it to the amusement of the masses then that isn't fair.

What ever happened to: "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me!"

Super sensitive society theses days. If someone posts crap then delete or withdraw yourself...

I with you TBM, I don't really understand social media or the general public's fascination with it. They can heap **** on Aussie Bob and no offense will be taken.

The problem is, they aren't heaping **** on screen names like Aussie Bob. They're posting a photo of someone's face and heaping **** on them publicly while their peers laugh. The target is public but the attacker is anonymous. It means that when they walk out into the real world their abuse still exists. They can't just log off from that. They can't even remove the photos if they suddenly regret posting them, because someone else has copied them and has posted it again. How is that a fair fight?

I agree that some of the self worship out there is just awful. But who are you to decide that it deserves discipline? And where would you draw the line? A bit of flack to you might mean a lot more to some of these people. If this stuff leads to self harm like the rumors suggest it already has, are you going to stand there and tell that human being's family that they deserved it because of the photos they posted of themselves on the internet?

Who cares how people use their social media accounts! If you don't like what you see then take TBM-Legend's advice and withdraw yourself. Spend your time doing something better than trying to destroy people who are clearly insecure to begin with.

Some of it was pretty off colour but frankly, some of these guys, and it’s largely guys, bring it upon themselves.

Some of them have very active Instagram and Facebook accounts, generating significant traffic and engaged in commercial deals with a significant number of suppliers.

At that point, their profile is no longer personal, they are an influencer and their social media persona reflects a business.

It’s not unreasonable then that self-aggrandising, self-indulgent, self-promoting social media posts, including some I’ve seen which could only be described as semi-naked, while trading off their supposed reputation and social standing as a pilot, to earn money, are called out for what they are.

Some of these guys would also do well to remember that.

It can clearly also constitute several indictable criminal offences including using a carriage service to harass or cause fear, stalking and the like.

And the publisher of those comments includes the website/social media owner.

Subpoenaes are a useful tool to obtain information regarding the posters and Personal Safety Intervention orders banning the poster from any place where the victim works might cause the poster difficulties.

Kaz

I think there's a big difference between Cyber Bullying and what was mostly being done on that Facebook Page.

Before social media you did something stupid and hoped no one heard about it, if they did it went through the grapevine the old fashioned way, this limited the exposure and range of stories being told. With Social Media doing stupid things can reach far and wide.

I think though, there is a big difference between doing something stupid and people laughing at you and posting something stupid of yourself that you thought was "Top Sh*t" and being called out for it, which was mostly what was happening there.

In this case you either turn around and have a laugh as well knowing you posted it in jest and happy that others are getting a laugh as well or you feel put down because what you thought was going to make you look like a rock star ended up making you look like a tool because you likely were being a tool. In that case it's up to you to be like "Yeah, I can see why that ended up there, good call!" or you can go the way some do and get all upset about it because people are calling you out.

Watch this folks:

That's all so true, TBM.

I saw an example of that on 29th October 2017 when 29 year old Michael P. took his own life. (RIP, Michael.) Here's a young guy who joined the Australian Army and I was so proud of him at his passing out parade at Kapooka.

(I was a close friend of his mother during his teens and helped him to learn to drive.)

He was discharged from the Army due to psychological issues, a few months ago, then apparently constantly bullied on social media. None of us recognised how depressed he was.

I now reckon that social media isn't always that "social".

Ignoring the irony that there are strong arguments that MTV created the negative traits of this generation (Google MTV generation), what he's saying is obviously true. It doesn't take a genius to see these people have problems. So why are other pilots so cruel that they have to make life harder for them? Don't you guys have something better to do?

You can package it however you want, but if this Spuds in Aviation page is committing social justice then why isn't anyone showing their real names? Right is right and wrong is wrong. If there's no wrong doing here, then why hide?

Show us all your real name if you believe this page is ethical, and we'll see if you're still sticking by your warped morals after someone gets hurt(or sued).

THE FULL VIDEO IS INSTRUCTIVE
 

Take time to watch the full fifteen minutes.

I spent 15 minutes this morning watching this video. It concisely describes an issue that clearly resonates with members of our community. Do you own an alarm clock? How many likes on your last Facebook post?

Yes, the lads need a shave but I think they’ve hit the nail squarely on the head.

MJG

It's all very well to say "names will never harm me", but the truth is words can and do hurt. Verbal abuse and constant belittling obviously do genuine damage. Sufficient unrelenting verbal, written, and pictorial bullying can do serious psychological harm to almost anyone, given enough time.

I haven't seen the pilot-mocking page, so I'm not commenting on that specifically.

I'm just a little disturbed that people are still trotting out the old "sticks and stones...." singsong, with its mindless lack of both accuracy and basic compassion. Especially given some of the truly vile and vicious sh*t posted online these days, or disseminated via other technological means.

And given there isn't actually any justification for getting ones jollies by publicly humiliating others. So why on earth should targets of unprovoked attacks be exhorted to tolerate the intolerable? Human beings are not objects to be used at will by immature cowards for purposes of public entertainment.

Again, too much online alleged "humor" these days goes FAR beyond anything remotely tolerable or defensible. It is not good-natured teasing. It is not simple name-calling. Very few people could withstand it for long. More power to those who can, but for them to mock those who can't is just more of the same problem, the equivalent moral low ground.

In short: perhaps we could refrain from adding to the onslaught by sneering at the victims?

Why is anyone surprised? Just because a person is a pilot doesn't make them special or a better person, does it. Like in all walks of life there some nasty pieces of work, pilots included.

Why is anyone surprised? Just because a person is a pilot doesn't make them special or a better person, does it? Like in all walks of life there some nasty pieces of work, pilots included. "Sky Gods" included.

Cordwainer, while I am not exactly "sticks and stones" on the matter, the fact is, in order for these demeaning sites (wherever they may be) to prosper an audience is required. You can send me the link but I aren't looking if you do. IMHO the folk who "innocently" view these sites are the root cause of the issue. Like porn addicts, the viewers think that simply looking at images causes no harm. I think they are wrong.

My recent short foray into Facebook to promote a business left me perplexed and underwhelmed. Endless self promotion, pictures of dinner, folk posting stuff to get nothing more than likes, pure garbage videos and targeted advertising was all that I could see. The whole thing left me cold. If Facebook posts are what is causing the ridicule then the poster deserves some of the blame.

I was on that FB page and found it a great laugh. The spuds making that page were textbook attention seeking narcissists who had no qualms posting photos and "look at me i'm a skygod / puhlot" comments publicly in the digital realm. I didn't see any bullying or harassment while I was on it, just comments being made in humour on photos posted to the internet.

The victimhood culture is out of control in this PC world we live in now.

Gone are the days of personal responsibility. Somehow we've arrived at a point where soon as anything goes wrong or untoward in an individuals life, someone else is to blame and an authority is expected to fix it.

It's given rise to these special kind of snowflakes that don't live in reality. They live in "safe spaces" where they only hear or see what they want to.

Unfortunately for them, the internet is one of the last places left where people will still speak their mind freely, and without (for the most part) fear of consequence. So guess what, if you act like a f*ckwit, people are going to call you out for it.

If you can't come to terms with that, do not post photos about yourself on the internet.

So you still think it's a good laugh knowing it drove someone to self harm?

Again, I refer back to the abuse of anonymity on the internet and how no one seems to have a problem with THAT, like you cowards have more moral fiber than the targets of this abuse.

You can talk about PC and victim-hood all you want, but unfortunately for people like you, the courts don't see it that way when it is pushed too far. The justice lies in the fact that absolutely everything can be traced on the internet. Screen names, proxies, VPNs mean nothing when legality becomes involved. Even Pprune has been known to provide information about it's posters that has lead to huge trouble on posters end:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...um-kfvtpqq9gdr

Maybe that changes how you waste your time on the internet rather than cheering on school yard bullying like a 14 year old girl.

These guys don't deserve to be bullied but you can have a laugh at it.

I remember a heading *airline pilot turned model* popped up on one of them. Now if you post that publicly in any forum, you'll cop some backlash.

If you want to reap financial rewards from public / social media, you have to be prepared for negative comments. It's not just the poor 20 year old cadet pilot who has copped it, politicians and actors etc all have.
My 2c.

Self harm is just another way of seeking attention.

I think that the OP is forgetting that little thing called self responsibility. If you are going to put yourself out there and paint a nice picture to an adoring audience that laps up pictures of you in full uniform on the beach with your dog but then cause your company all sorts of issues behind the scenes then you can expect to get a bit of a ribbing from your peers.

Perhaps a cry for help?

Kaz

Sorry, where is the evidence someone "self harmed" over this? You said:

So unless you can show some proof of this, let's stop the virtue signalling hyperbole shall we?

Another reality check. If commercial pilots are "self harming" themselves because they couldn't deal with comments that didn't pan out the way they hoped they would on the internet, well, they properly don't qualify under that "fit and proper person" category to be at the controls of an aircraft anyway.

I certainly wasn't anonymous, I only use my real name and FB profile. I have zero problems or concerns with that because I did nothing to breach the terms or rules of FB, or the law.

Yet here you sit, behind the veil of anonymity calling me a coward? The irony.

Yeah it's called slander, it's not a new thing. I never saw it on that page.

It's a little different to reporting something to Admin on social media and screaming "i'm offended" when you didn't like what you saw.

The problem is you don't seem to be able to differentiate between the two. Either that, or you are purposely trying to conflate the two for whatever reason you felt the need to start this thread.

thanks for taking an interest in how I spend my spare time on the internet. I'm sure you'd love to be able to control that too if you could.

I think I would rather the more stable type sitting up the front.

If you are going to buckle over social media posts, you should inform your doctor before your next medical.

My nephew and his girlfriend came to stay with me recently. They are very into social media and the GF has about 10,000 followers on FB/instagram etc.

Apparently it's all to do with how many "likes" you get from a post. The more likes the more "status" you have. These two people are totally convinced if they get enough followers they will be able to generate enough income to not work a "boring" job.

I remember when everyone just wanted to be an actor or a writer. Now they all want to be bloggers/vloggers and twitter feed gods. Hence they post stupid/ridiculous things to get more likes but when it goes wrong it's everyone else's fault. Their account was hacked or their drink was spiked. I am having a tough time at home. Its not my fault I posted topless pictures of myself in a nightclub toilet.

Is someone prone to self harm suitable in the aircrew role in the first place?

These delicate flowers could turn their smart phone off and leave it in their flight bag for flight operations use only.

Or throw the smart phone away and buy a dumb phone and don't pay for any data at all: The Nokia 3310 is back and the Telstra Easycall 3 or 4 granny phone does not even have a camera so you can't take pictures that would make you look a fool. Make actual phone calls and text the old-fashioned way. Enjoy battery life of a week or more.

Don't have facebook as your pc homepage, have pprune!

These people seem to have forgotten that there is an off switch on these things. Out of sight, out of mind.

I heard that someone was posting on pprune regularly and someone whom didn't like them, complained to their employer (government) and they were investigated for a bunch of things that never actually happened, thus wasting much time and effort. As a result the complainant is now being investigated for making a false complaint which is looking to be quite serious (being a criminal charge of course), which could affect their ability to obtain an ASIC card or more for starters. I wonder if said complainant is biting their nails right now !

You're pettifogging kingRB. This thread isn't about 90% of what you're raging about. It's about how pilots behave and treat their peers.

You find that sort of thing funny, well I find your sense of humor tasteless and your lack of empathy quite sad.

You're welcome, I find people like you fascinating. But I don't want to control anymore of your time. I can't imagine there's much left after the hours you must spend flicking through a thesaurus and over-engineering your sentences to sound smart on the internet:

Yikes.

Exhibit A
 

For you older folks without Instagram to provide context.

https://i.imgur.com/EnggDZYl.png

Mods please delete if inappropriate.

Thanks for the context, I don't have twitter.

That photo certainty begs for comments!

Certainly a security sensitive area or shows signs where it maybe lacking! might be a nice guy, but not real brite for career advancement.

* Note it is a fact it is a "secure area"
* Note it is a fact it will not advance his career - but may hinder it!

So it is not a personal attack, just 2 facts.

If I was ripped like that guy I would be proud of the photo and hope it went viral but the photo-shopping is rather obvious. Is this the type of picture we are talking about here? Does this cause angst or self harm to the person in the photo? Good grief, strange world, that of social media.

Easie, so sorry but I agree with the King, tis you that is pettifogging .... Whatever that means.

i'll take that as a no, you made it up and tried to legitimize a non story over rumour at best.

Trigger alert. Where's my safe space. I'm reporting your comments because i'm offended with your tone and didn't like your words.

Maybe i'll start selfing harming too. How can you live with yourself?

:ok:

Maybe it is a generational thing. I fear the "turning around in the cockpit" picture, or dare I even suggest "in front of the engine" picture.

'Spuds' was one of the greatest, funniest facebook pages in a long time. Up there with Aussie Man Reviews....but I guess the Politically Correct thought police dont like that page either...

As others have said, if you put something up for public consumption that is clearly showboating, then be prepared for some blowback.

Even though I am obviously using a 'handle' name to post under here on PPRUNE, I only ever write things that I am prepared to defend either to other people (my peers) or in a court.

Perhaps the original poster would like to think back to the days where a pilot might announce his job title before his name in a public gathering setting. In those pre-social media days do you think the responses were ALL positive to that sort of behaviour? Similar, no?

May you never suffer from depression, KingRB.

I completely agree and by no means do I make light of genuine mental illness.

However the OP appears disingenuous, claiming bullying / harassment where it didn't exist, and trivializing mental illness as an excuse to shut down something they saw and didn't like on the internet.

Actually, I agree with you to a large extent. The whole culture of self- and selfie-absorption is out of hand, and there's a valid discussion to be had about where the line is between sharing with friends and making oneself an actual public figure.

I would still argue against your final sentence as a blanket statement - it's a bit too similar to claiming the victim of a crime was "asking for it". The posters may be anything from ill-advised, to rampant narcissists, to people who simply don't understand how to restrict viewing of their Facebook page to friends only. But they're not causing the ridicule.

The root causes I believe are immaturity or cruelty or a combination of the two, exacerbated by an increasing amount of similar media bolstered by claims the victims "can't take a joke" or "have no sense of humor". The cause of ridicule is the mindset of those who believe ridiculing others, even total strangers, purely for the sake of their own amusement, is somehow OK.

I'd continue to assert it's not. There's a difference, for example, between satire about a genuine public figure to make a point, i.e., to point out a crime or injustice, or something that adversely affects society as a whole....as opposed to making fun of some poor schmuck who was just following the advice of hundreds of articles about using social media for business or self promotion.

But, yes, I wholeheartedly agree the audience for that sort of mockery is not innocent. It's why I have very harsh replies to anyone who is foolish enough to send me links to something like the quite objectionable "People of Walmart" or similar posts that are devoted solely to making fun of the poor, overweight, homeless, mentally ill, etc.

Hoping you'll take no offense at my reply, as I do think we're basically of like mind here, and with thanks for your own well-thought-out post.

Stay away from "social" media and you won't have a problem.