The MDA or DA is only valid assuming you are on track. If you are not on track, e.g., out of tolerance or navaid failed, then you are no longer established on the approach and the MDA/DA is no longer valid for your position. You are now in a position where you no longer have assured obstacle clearance. You climb straight away because you must get clear of the ground. You track to the MAPT and then track via the missed approach so that you follow the ground track the procedure designs came up with to keep you clear of hills, restricted areas etc.

If it doesn't specifically say in the regs that you must climb immediately it's because nobody ever conceived that anyone would think otherwise.

If it was ok to do as you suggest then the MSA would allow it.

LOL! I'm not trying to kill myself. If you read the start of the thread, the proposition was put that depending on how you interpret the term "execute a missed approach" (as per the regs) it is conceivable you could level out track to the MAPt and then start your climb in the hope of breaking visual.

I'm not arguing whether it is the right thing to do or not (I've already stated my opinion on the matter), I'm just asking how others interpret the regs and if there are, in fact, any regs that stipulate you must climb immediately.

Call it a hypothetically argument, if you like - though I have heard opinions from both sides.

Well, some have thought otherwise. But I agree with everything else you've written.

If they're hoping to break visual then they're not flying a missed approach. Once you start flying the missed approach, you've stopped "hoping to break visual".

Maintaining altitude and hoping to break visual is just continuing the approach.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm not. And if you read my posts, that's pretty obvious. I put a proposition, and I asked for opinions on the regs. But this being the prune, I expected to get more than I asked for . . . and I wasn't wrong. :}

Sometimes the initial missed approach alt is below your current alt so you have to carry on down

You don't have an instrument rating, do you ? Unless you are on the prescribed track, etc., you are not permitted to "carry on down". I do hope that your comment was tongue in cheek

Didn't read the original question properly!
We did some sim training, on ils with initial miss app alt 1500'
Given go around from tower about 1800'
This was to get us to understand how to get aircraft out of ils mode so it would level at 1500' to a defined dme on the plate, then continue the misap procedure.

We did know where we were though

What happens if, for example, you go out of tolerance/the aid fails, you start to conduct the MA (climb, track) and you suddenly break visual? Are you not now legally entitled to conduct a visual approach (circling or straight in, assuming you're not too high)? I believe that's where this whole idea stems from . .

GA single or multi.

What the hell happened to the Professional in PPRUNE?

This does bring up all sorts of issues, especially the guidance for immediate climb when you dont know where you are?!?!

What does it say about the Missed Approach Point? On an instrument approach, does it say you should, or you SHALL use MAPt as the beginning of a Missed Approach?
How many Missed Approach Points are shown on the plate?

Where does a missed approach procedure and guidance begin? Does it begin just after the the FAF, or just anyplace on the glideslope? It begins at the MAPt. The plates are very clear when you begin climb. Not before, not after. If you need to climb after, you are out of the parameters of the prescribed missed approach procedure.

Bloggs, even at the all hallowed MEL, there have been many incidents where the ac on GA have encrouched on ac on DEP from RW16. I suppose you dont remember the 744 on DEP from RW16, and the 322 that was on final to RW16, did a GA and ran up the backside of the 744? (This is why many plates worldwide, have you turn before the end of the runway)
MEL has crossing procedures that are perpendicular to RW16/34. GA, and simply pull up may also cause a conflict and loss of sep.
As search of the library with incidents involving departing aircraft with aircraft on GA shows over 300 reported loss of seperation incidents since 2000.

This is the benefit of having a coded missed approach, everything has been sorted out. There are no coded missed approach tracks that begin anywhere other that the DA/MDA. You want to go missed, you engage, it will track the ac down to the waypoint, and begin the missed approach procedure, just like anyone should when deciding to go missed. Pull up and pray when you dont know where you are?

What happens if, for example, you go out of tolerance/the aid fails, you start to conduct the MA (climb, track) and you suddenly break visual? Are you not now legally entitled to conduct a visual approach (circling or straight in, assuming you're not too high)? I believe that's where this whole idea stems from . .

Once you begin the missed approach the first thing you do is re-configure the aircraft. Therefore you would no longer meet the stableised approach criteria. To me there is no chance of a straight in landing.... join the circuit and continue VMC? That's an airmanship question.

Terminal section says that if a missed approach is conducted from circling, It is assumed you will initiate a climbing turn towards the aid. Missed approach tracking commences at the missed approach point, climbing up to lowest safe commences as soon as you decide to discontinue the approach. If altitude restrictions apply for the climb obviously the need to be complied with. But there is absolutely no requirement to continue down to DA/MDA before climbing.

Can you let us all know who you fly for? Then we can add that organisation to the avoid list.

The instructions for the missed approach may be assigned by air traffic control (ATC) prior to the clearance for the approach. If ATC has not issued specific instructions prior to the approach and a missed approach is executed, the pilot must follow the (default) missed approach procedure specified for the approach.

Is the plate a published missed approach procedure?

The literal approach is to do what the plate states and shows to do for a missed approach. It is that simple.

Slezy,
KLAX ILS or LOC RWY 24R
FAF = 2,200 ft
MA ALT = 2,000 ft
It seems you're not quite the oracle yet.

edit
As per the OP.
Only in the context of a non-precision approach, it makes for an interesting discussion.

You don't continue descending though, as you stated in your first post, you climb straight away while tracking to the MAPT, then you commence tracking via the procedure.

Slezy, there is nothing wrong with what Trent is saying. If the missed approach altitude is below the altitude you go missed at, then you need to descend to it. Otherwise what altitude would you climb to? 5000? 6000? Some other random number?

Underfire, AIP ENR 1.5 2.6.3 specifically allows climb before the MAPT. This paragraph is basically stating that if you begin your climb before the MAPT you must continue to the MAPT and then follow the procedure; or in other words don't follow the lateral tracking instructions from prior to the MAPT.


As for traffic at MEL etc? Just say your callsign, "going around" and what you are doing straight away (ie prune 123 going around climbing 5000", let ATC do the rest. If you are coming up the clacker of another plane, they'll probably tell you to turn- "or as otherwise directed by ATC", remember that?


Here's another thing to think about. What is the go around/missed approach procedure in your aircraft manual? Does it tell you to stay level or descend? No, it tells you to climb.


I think all the smart people who know what they are doing (and are safe operators) are all saying CLIMB, don't remain level and hope.

Yep, fair call.

I mis-read what was written.

Sorry.

So what happens on 34R at SYD then? Assuming you go around 4 miles out, do you track to the MAP before turning or do you turn at 600'?