Airventure Australia bans AvPlan from attending? Really?
 

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But wow. Never heard of a sponsor getting rights to ban a competitor from attending a show. Imagine Boeing sponsoring Avalon Airshow and getting the organiser to ban Airbus?

Surely this can't be true? If it is, that's exceptionally poor form by the OzRunways guys.

I'm guessing OzR were offered and paid for sponsorship rights that included exclusive rights to market EFBs. (Try going to an AFL match and demanding rights to market products in competition with the AFL's sponsors.)

Money talks.

(And just to be clear: I've only ever used AvPlan, and love it.)

The difference being the AFL are the ones putting on the match (OzRunways aren't the ones putting on Airventure)

I've not seen this before at Aviation, or Military shows. Makes me wonder what they fear (I'm an AvPlan guy too).

If I were AvPlan I'd hire a banner towing aircraft to fly non-stop around the airfield :E

I'd love to know whether this was offered or requested. I've been to a lot of trade shows and I've never seen this offered.

Still think it's poor form.

Guys don't believe everything you read. As always, the devil is in the detail.

OzRunways offered to support the AirVenture airshow in March as a major sponsor, when nobody else would. Everybody was offered sponsorship in a variety of forms, big & small. OzRunways is still the only sponsor (although organisers are in talks with CASA & QBE).

Later, the organisers needed more money. Other industry groups were approached, multiple times, but declined to support the airshow (and we're not talking $500 for a table). They asked us again for more money with an offer of exclusivity, which we accepted. And this is not play money - we're talking tens of thousands. Now, OzRunways is STILL THE ONLY SUPPORTER of this airshow, and I tell you - it's hanging by a thread with all this bull**** talk of guerrilla marketing to make us look bad for not inviting freeloaders.

Let me be clear: We will gladly go non-exclusive if others can step in and become sponsors -- that is, to share the financial burden of running this thing. It doesn't run on hopes & dreams; it requires dollars. Like $10,000 or $20,000 per sponsor, across multiple sponsors.

Please direct your anger at the appropriate organisation, because we're quickly losing interest at being the sole supporter of this event if there's going to be blowback at not inviting a freeloader to the party. What we want to see is EVERYBODY put in significant funds to run these airshows, EVERYBODY invited, then we can all get back to wearing ray ban aviators and high fiving each other.

Have any of you ever heard of ambush marketing?

That is exactly what is happening to oz runways.

The Olympic Games suffers this and fights back

If av plan was genuine they could have stumped up sponsorship money, but no they just want to benifit from a competitors sponsorship

My understanding oz runways would be happy to include avplan in a combined sponsorship

The alternative would have been no sponsorship and no air adventure

I'll leave it to the readers what they would prefer

Yes that is the case.

Well said Shagpile. I can see how this would really p*** you off.


Come on AvPlan - stump up the cash and join the party.


In the mean time, I'll continue to use OzRunways as my preferred EFB http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Out of interest Shagpile, to hopefully put this to rest, Avplan are claiming on their Blog Post on the 07/08 that they were not formally approached to provide sponsorship this year? You can confirm that this is indeed not the truth?

I'm an Ozrunways user myself and recommend them to anyone asking but I am curious and would love to see this said in no uncertain manner to put the naysayers to bed.

Perhaps they could have been proactive and offered to provide a sponsorship?

I use OzRunways on two devices and it is the best thing that has happened to aviation since the GPS became available for the masses.

Kaz

Hi Shagpile. No problems at all - can you publish how much you paid for "exclusive" sponsorship. I'm pretty sure it isn't $10k.

I thought I was. Can you confirm that AirVentures offered you exclusive sponsorship or did you offer it? When I say "offered" it, they were the ones to suggest that they would exclude your competitors? from even attending the entire event or having a trade booth? That is not how typical "Platinum" sponsorship works at events.

Precluding a company from PAYING for a trade booth at a show is hardly "Ambush marketing" :rolleyes:

How did you come to that understanding?

We have been advised by the organisers that yes sponsorship was offered and was declined.

We've been fielding calls from industry all day over this rock show of misinformation & propaganda, and it's put the entire airshow at risk.

MilFlyer

Do you have any pecuniary interest or employment or corporate management role in either OzR, AvP or the Airventure organisation? I don't.

I'm just trying to work out the motivations for your outrage on this.

GA air shows in Australia these days are effectively glorified Aeroclub fly-ins, organised by volunteers who try their best to make it work. Some fancy themselves as important wheelers and dealers, but they generally aren't. I reckon EFB subscriptions out of attendance at Airventure in Australia would be chump change compared with the usual media through which people choose and subscribe to an EFB. I can therefore understand the dilemma faced by OzR and AvP and the temptation to just shrug and say: Screw spending money on this.

This is factually incorrect.AvPlan are making a massive misrepresentation- i know for a fact they where offered the same opportunity that OzRunways were!

Any conflicts of interests clouddancingbo? I'm always suspicious of first posts that don't ask about how to get a pilot's licence.

Let's all dedicate energy to an argument about who's right and who's wrong about sponsorship arrangements for this event. Not sure who benefits. I'll do my best to get there, but I can only imagine AvP's level of motivation to do the same after returning from Oshkosh.

Sounds like AvPlan are the ones in the wrong here, from most accounts except theirs they've been offered Sponsorship and declined for whatever reason, AirVenture have then decided to try and do what they could to save the show which was offer OzRunways the deal that they've taken and in response they've started a campaign of misinformation.

I think the outrage here Lead Balloon is that OzRunways haven't done this as a "Business" thing, you're probably right that the subscriptions they'd get from such an event are miniscule compared to what they get from Advertising and Word of Mouth, from all accounts they've done this because they don't want to see this Airshow fail but AvPlan have taken it as an opportunity to put out a smear campaign. If they decided the money wasn't worth being spent, cool, no problems. OzRunways decided it was worth it and took the opportunity and now it seems AvPlan are annoyed because they assumed somewhere along the line that they'd be entitled to go and now aren't.

In my opinion I'd say it's time for someone to leak a couple of emails and put the whole thing to bed and let this be about an Airshow that we can all enjoy instead of someone trying to bring it down by running a smear campaign.

If AvP is in the wrong here and engaging in a deliberate 'smear campaign', I'll send an email to Bevan expressing my disappointment.

If.

Will it cause the end of GA as we know it? No.

There are many reasons for the lack of sponsors for Airventure Australia. Those are the stark realities of an industry in its death throes as a consequence of consecutive stultifying mediocrities that Australia has called governments for the last couple of decades.

Me neither. Take a wild stab in the dark from my name where my interests are :mad:

I just *know* this kind of bull**** isn't normal. To pretend that OzRunways is some kind of White knight savior is equally dumb.

It is *NOT* normal for this to occur at trade shows in aviation or other businesses. I'm simply asking if this was the stupidity of the organisers of the show (did they OFFER this or did OzRunways request it )

It seems that the ShagPile bloke is connected to OzRunways so he can answer this question.

Most that talk about "sponsorship offering" have clearly never attended a trade show. It doesn't work like that. There are sponsorship levels that you can purchase. They pretty much *NEVER* offer an exclusion of other businesses. If you disagree with this statement, please link some media kits from another event that describes it.

So, back to my question.

Did AirVenture Australia OFFER to exclude the competitors of the major sponsor, or did OzRunways request it?

Simple question, no?

That's not how it works, and for you to suggest otherwise is demonstrably false. Are you suggesting AvPlan were informed 'Would you like to be the premier sponsor, if not you can't even have a booth'? No, you aren't because I'm willing to bet a substantial amount of money that that's false.

Of course. The RAAF Roulettes are about to pull out on the basis of your PR stuff-up. I call bull****. The show will go ahead with or without you. You know that. I know that. AirVentures know that.

Shagpile, just answer this:

Did AirVenture Australia OFFER to exclude the competitors of the major sponsor, or did OzRunways request it?

MilFlyer, you've mentioned Trade Shows, this isn't a Trade Show though, is it? Trade Shows NEED to have as many companies as they can, that's what attracts people is the ability to shop around.

This is an Event, an Aviation Event where they bring together different parts of the Industry in the best way they can. This required them to have the money to get it up and running which from what has been said it sounds like they were struggling to raise. It's just like an AFL Match, Four & Twenty are Major Sponsors, so guess which Pies you find there? Coca Cola are a Major Sponsor, guess which Drinks you'll be finding there? (FYI, have't been to a match in a while, no idea if they're even the current sponsors but you get the point!)

OzRunways offered to be a Sponsor back in March and what they've said is that AvPlan decided NOT to be a Sponsor, likely they wanted to just be an Exhibitor. Air Venture found themselves coming up short and put out word that they didn't have enough Sponsors and needed Sponsors or a Major Sponsor, not just people wanting Stall Spaces.

OzRunways stepped in to help secure the event going ahead as they felt this was something they wanted to do and this was based on terms offered by Air Venture. Should they have turned around and said "We're very sorry, we don't think these terms are fair to our competitors so we'd rather not and potentially have the event not go ahead..."? Who would that benefit then?

Even if they had asked for Exclusive Rights as opposed to being offered them, who cares?! They stumped up the cash, as Lead Balloon said, Money Talks.

And I agree Lead Balloon, it's not the end of GA, but for whatever reason OzRunways have decided to give it a crack and dish out the cash, I don't think they deserve this smear campaign from AvPlan making it sound like they've done something sneaky or underhanded. From what I've seen around, the way they've been putting it to people is like OzRunways Team deliberately did this just to spite them and that would cost them money for the wrong reasons.

And why would the RAAF Roulettes pull out of an Event because it's Major Sponsor has exclusivity over one small portion? Especially when the ADF uses OzRunways?! Also I wouldn't describe it as a PR Stuff Up at all, infact I'd say only a small number of potential attendees would even be aware of it and of those aware it probably wouldn't sway the majority of them. Hasn't made News Headlines at all and barely made a 2 page thread on here, even on Facebook only a tiny number of responses.

Let's not allow the facts to get in the way of a good story.

Avplan was not formally approached for sponsorship.

Whether or not OZ Runways was complicit in an arrangement to lock out a competitor - I have no idea.

But the way it's been managed suggests something has gone badly adrift. This is not good publicity for OZ Runways either.

If the air show can't sustain the level of sponsorship required, the organisers (RAAus, APF, SAAA) need to re think the real purpose of this event, and stop trying to make it something it's not.

As a smaller "fly in" for this group of aviators, an annual event is ideal, but to upscale it requires serious support (sponsorship and appearances) and it seems this just isn't happening.

I am faced with an Eight hour drive to Narromine. I have yet to try for accommodation and I won't use a tent again. I last went in 2015, it was worthwhile....just..

my interests are:

- the C of A issue process for experimental.

- getting a few hours in a Savannah or equivalent if the opportunity presents.

- update on MPC refresher training.

- maybe learning something and maybe buying something.

- looking at the pretty aircraft.

I note an entity called "air ventures" is running the event. Who are they? What happened to SAAA? Is there even going to be any presence from SAAA? RAA? CASA? AsA? Is this 'event" going to be anything more then a crummy airshow in a country town in the middle of nowhere?

That is 16 hours driving and I am starting to feel that maybe its not worth the effort after reading this thread.

I suppose Narromine was chosen because its equally hard to get to from anywhere.

Sunfish:

What you say is what this event should really be all about.

Everyone seems to be overtaken by a desire to make this airshow something it's not possible to be.

Other factors - Accommodation, location etc etc are real issues to many people. A smaller event that re-focuses on what RAAus, APF, SAAA have as their core interest and values is probably a good thing.

Hi, I'm assuming the same organisation that ran OzKosh last year. From the airventure website. AirVenture Australia

WHAT'S HAPPENING?
It's more than just planes. It's a celebration of flight!

RAAus, SAAA and APF are pleased to bring you AirVenture Australia (AVA) 2017. Building on the success of 2016, this year’s event is certainly designed to offer something for everyone. An assortment of seminars for young, old, experienced and novice aviators. A comprehensive aviation exhibition space where if you can think of it, you’ll find it. Top all this off with an airshow that will blow your sock off and you will start to see why AVA 2017 can’t be missed. Sign up now for updates, or visit again soon. Tickets on sale August.

My understanding is that SAAA last ran the event in 2015 as "Ausfly". Since then it has been run by a separate group of people, many of whom were the previous organisers. This was to allow the event to transition from being an SAAA event to being an event for all the different aviation groups. The event receives support from SAAA, RAAus, APF and others...

With this background I can understand why they wanted to change the name from Ausfly but it would be good if they could at least come up with something that doesn't cause confusion with everyone you talk to about the event.

Exclusive sponsorship's are not new or uncommon. But it should only relate to sponsorship, not other commercial dealings.

If Air Venture are refusing to deal with AvPlan commercially (ie not allowing AvPlan to take a display booth) at the direction of a third party (ie Ozrunways), then this sounds very much like third line forcing to me which is against the trade practices act and actionable in the Federal Court.

Frankly, I think its a naive and clumsy move by both AirVenture and OzRunways in such a small community as aviation. Its guaranteed to disenfranchise someone.

Ozrunways would be justified in wanting a marketing advantage from being the major sponsor (and if their assertion is correct only sponsor), but there are many smarter ways to do it.

I count 14 sponsors on previous AusFly posters. Are OzRunways really the only ones prepared to return as sponsors?

Doesn't seem to me that OzR 'directed' anything. They were offered exclusivity as the quid pro quo for paying a lot more money in sponsorship:A tip for the future, OzR: In matters commercial, no kind act goes unpunished.

My point is that exclusivity of sponsorship is one thing and a fair go. Refusing a different commercial relationship (ie renting a trade display stand) is a different thing.

The smarter strategic thing is to refuse AvPlans sponsorship, sell them a trade stand then for Ozrunways to use its sponsorship relationship to swamp AvPlan's visibility.

The Ozrunways sponsorship of AirVenture is commercial not philanthropic. Otherwise they wouldn't care about the prominent branding they are getting or excluding competitors.

I have no concern with OzRunways sponsorship of Air Venture. I am quite agnostic. But it doesn't look like it's been done very strategically.

Perhaps other sponsors can't see the value in it - If that's the case, the organisers need to re think the whole thing.

Even if someone has crossed the line vis a vis the Trade Practices Act, no one is the winner and it drags everyone down.:ugh:

OzRunways has withdrawn major sponsorship of the event and will be a regular attendee.

Official statement here:
https://www.facebook.com/OzRunways/p...03117613107528

Wow, what a shame that OzRunways have had to withdraw.

Now at least everyone knows that Avplan will step up to the plate with the same sponsorship now that the event has lost it...

I think Old Akro summed it up very neatly; there are no winners in this debacle. I've used both programs at various times and don't have a horse in the race, but I think we would all be the poorer if there wasn't the competition between them.

"had to withdraw"? Reads to me they chose to withdraw.

RA Aus have made a statement on their facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/RAAus/posts/1911710245750869

Better late than never. OZrunways peeps shouldn't have had to defend themselves against the lynch mob without the support of the organisers. All rather badly handled IMO and a pity if this means the event can't go ahead as I'm sure a lot of work would have gone into it so far.

Exactly.

Wasn't AOPA going to the event? Are they still going?

Is Paul Bennett going? No? Why?

Is the head of RAAus an ex F111 driver?

Is the Minister for Transport's Aviation advisor an ex F111 Navigator, ex Liberal Party candidate for the ACT elections, and the wife of Darren Chester's Chief of Staff?

I do hope you're not suggesting that political interests and connections may explain otherwise inexplicable behaviour, HL?

Political interests and connections would never influence these matters.

I don't know anything about RAAus's leadership but I am certain that they have no National Party links.

I am sure there is no National Party influence.

I am sure that the dots you have connected in your mind are, in reality, totally unconnected.

Nothing to see here.

Just as things couldn't get any worse for Australian GA, the manufacturers of both excellent EFB systems turned against one another..

Oh they've been sniping at each other for years - that's fine in my book, a bit of commercial competition is healthy, but the greater pity is that the aviation community has rushed to choose sides.

Talking about sides, I can't help noticing that this thread was earlier locked, despite a generally polite discussion. Did the way the discussion was headed not suit someone?

Reading the Facebook pages of both company's of late has been some what laughable. So many are so easily to be offended, and the loss of a few ignorants, with their pitchforks in hand, here and there will not affect either's bottom line. In a month or so no will will remember these events and business will go along as usual.

The statement released by RAAus does seem to put some solidarity to the OzR story... Kind of hard for AvPlan to defend against that. The real sadness is that one individual has taken it upon themselves to get involved beyond their needs and basically ruined the security of the event.

And perhaps, maybe it's just not a viable event in the first place..?

Can MilFlyer please step back in and revise his posts?

Especially the line "Of course. The RAAF Roulettes are about to pull out on the basis of your PR stuff-up. I call bull****. The show will go ahead with or without you. You know that. I know that. AirVentures know that."

Looks like without them it may indeed not go ahead after all despite what you claim to know.