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-   -   Is the BOM manipulating temperature records? (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/597747-bom-manipulating-temperature-records.html)

Ozgrade3 1st Aug 2017 02:32

Is the BOM manipulating temperature records?
 
This has been reported by Chriss Smith of 2GB but I have noticed it as well. I frequently monitor the temp on the BOM website, especially on cold nights so I have seen it myself.

The Golbourn AWOS reports the real time temp of say -10.5 deg C. I see it sitting at my desk. several days later i look at the temperature records and see that the lowest temp on that day has been adjusted to something like -9.0.

Can the BOM be trusted for aeronautical data?

Flying Binghi 1st Aug 2017 02:47


Originally Posted by Ozgrade3 (Post 9848490)

Can the BOM be trusted for aeronautical data?

That ties well with the lack of credibility of the temperatures that are used re runway length. Aircraft may very well being loaded at lesser weights to suit the corrupt BOM temps. A huge cost to Australian aviation.

Certainly a good case for the government to launch an investigation.






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peterc005 1st Aug 2017 02:57

This thread is sure to bring the climate-change skeptic/conspiracy nutters out from under the wood pile.

What possible motivation would BOM for manipulating weather observations?

I've met a few BOM staff over the years and they all appear to have been very serious professionals working to do the best job possible.

If unsure - then test it !!!

Go down to Bunnings, spend ~$100 to buy a portable weather station, locate it near the BOM weather station in question and publish the results. Questions answered.

https://www.bunnings.com.au/our-rang...ather-stations

OZBUSDRIVER 1st Aug 2017 03:10

Peterc005...I trust the BOM to maintain a database as much as I trust a CASA FOI to understand a p-chart.

Slezy9 1st Aug 2017 03:21


Originally Posted by Ozgrade3 (Post 9848490)
This has been reported by Chriss Smith of 2GB but I have noticed it as well. I frequently monitor the temp on the BOM website, especially on cold nights so I have seen it myself.

Blah, blah, blah. I'm a crazy nut bag who believes the BOM, NASA and every reputable scientist in the world is in on a climate change conspiracy.

Can the BOM be trusted for aeronautical data?

Conspiracy!

Flying Binghi 1st Aug 2017 03:28

Well this thread has got me out from the back of the wood pile..:)


Originally Posted by peterc005 (Post 9848501)
What possible motivation would BOM for manipulating weather observations?

I've met a few BOM staff over the years and they....

Perhaps peterc005 can tell us all about this then...

"...RATHER than admit that temperature dropped to a record low -10.4 degree Celsius on the morning of Sunday 2nd July at Goulburn, the Bureau of Meteorology has come-up with yet another even more absurd story.

Responding to a letter from Josh Frydenberg, the Minister for Environment and Energy, Andrew Johnson, CEO and Director of Meteorology, has claimed the weather station malfunctioned. Previously the Bureau claimed that they had placed new limits on how cold it could get at Goulburn..."


Continues - Bureau Misleads Minister Frydenberg on Goulburn - Jennifer Marohasy





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le Pingouin 1st Aug 2017 04:00

Computers and sensors never fail and are never our of tolerance? You conspiracy nutters make me giggle.

peterc005 1st Aug 2017 04:16

As I said above, if you have concerns about BOM data buy a weather station to take your own measurements to compare with the BOM.

So far the only argument is an unsubstantiated anecdote about weather data. Show us the facts.

Flying Binghi 1st Aug 2017 06:01

The BOM initially provided the "facts"...

“The correct minimum temperature for Goulburn on 2 July, 2017 is -10.4 recorded at 6.30am at Goulburn Airport AWS… The Bureau’s quality control system, designed to filter out spurious low or high values was set at -10 minimum for Goulburn which is why the record automatically adjusted.”

Then different 'facts' were provided to the minister...

...“the AWS at Goulburn stopped recording when the temperature fell below -10°C.”...

So which of these 'facts' provided by the BOM is correct ?



"...In short, after initially recording -10.0 in the CDO dataset, this was changed to -10.4 three days later following a blog post ( Bureau Erases Goulburn Record Minimum), an outcry on Facebook, and enquires from prominent journalists..."

More fascinating background here: Bureau Misleads Minister Frydenberg on Goulburn - Jennifer Marohasy





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Ultralights 1st Aug 2017 06:34

was the weather station at YLGB the official station that the data is taken from? i know at Moorebank, the temperature is taken from Holsworthy airport, well away from the heat island effect, and can vary by quite a few degrees.

compressor stall 1st Aug 2017 08:36

I can't talk about the Goulburn incident, but there are a vast number of private weather stations that feed into WUnderground. If you look at them, you will see definite trends across fairly small areas. Local microclimates can play a very big part in climate records.

There have been occasions where massive uproar amongst climate deniers has been caused after temperature corrections have been applied to a data set where the recording station has been moved. Moving a recording station then correcting the temperature bias is sound science, not a conspiracy.

drpixie 1st Aug 2017 08:57


Originally Posted by Flying Binghi (Post 9848563)
The BOM initially provided the "facts"...

“The correct minimum temperature for Goulburn on 2 July, 2017 is -10.4 recorded at 6.30am at Goulburn Airport AWS… The Bureau’s quality control system, designed to filter out spurious low or high values was set at -10 minimum for Goulburn which is why the record automatically adjusted.”

Then different 'facts' were provided to the minister...

"...In short, after initially recording -10.0 in the CDO dataset, this was changed to -10.4 three days later following a blog post ( Bureau Erases Goulburn Record Minimum), an outcry on Facebook, and enquires from prominent journalists..."

Awww diddums the Minisiter - forced to bullshit us with misleading bullshit, instead of his own genuine bullshit.:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

currawong 1st Aug 2017 09:12

Of course the climate is changing.

In the 70's there was the threat of an ice age.

That's changed...

advo-cate 1st Aug 2017 11:42

Well lets get back to facts here. There has been a series of unexplained changes to weather data by the BOM. The most recent was the Rutherglen data set which were compared with and "homogenized" with data from around 1000 km away.

Well??? hows that??

And back to aviation and the TTF at Adelaide that was wrong 4 years ago and two 737's end up at Mildura with next to no fuel.

BOM fail, but no SR's issued in the "slow to develop" ATSB report.

Well??

bolthead 1st Aug 2017 11:51

You'd think with these 'homogenizations', some would be homogenised up, and some down. Does anyone know a rough percentage of which way they went?

Derfred 1st Aug 2017 12:43


And back to aviation and the TTF at Adelaide that was wrong 4 years ago and two 737's end up at Mildura with next to no fuel.
Correct, advo.

My Airline is constantly issuing additional weather holding/alternate fuel recommendations because they don't trust the BOM forecasts.

Which is weird, because the conspiracy theorists say that the BOM issues overly optimistic forecasts because they are pressured by the airlines to do so!

Fortunately pilots still get to order fuel without influence.

peterc005 1st Aug 2017 12:46

BOM are "Manipulating Temperature Records"?

Let me guess, BOM is behind Chemtrails too?

le Pingouin 1st Aug 2017 13:06

Only in a Murdoch rag would this make the front page. Hmmm, I guess it qualifies as politics rather as news it ain't.

currawong 1st Aug 2017 14:00

Yet the ABC will run a story about a fox taking a waz in someones rain gauge....

For real.

le Pingouin 1st Aug 2017 14:39

As a quirky local story, not top of the evening news.


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