Is the BOM manipulating temperature records?
 

This has been reported by Chriss Smith of 2GB but I have noticed it as well. I frequently monitor the temp on the BOM website, especially on cold nights so I have seen it myself.

The Golbourn AWOS reports the real time temp of say -10.5 deg C. I see it sitting at my desk. several days later i look at the temperature records and see that the lowest temp on that day has been adjusted to something like -9.0.

Can the BOM be trusted for aeronautical data?

That ties well with the lack of credibility of the temperatures that are used re runway length. Aircraft may very well being loaded at lesser weights to suit the corrupt BOM temps. A huge cost to Australian aviation.

Certainly a good case for the government to launch an investigation.






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This thread is sure to bring the climate-change skeptic/conspiracy nutters out from under the wood pile.

What possible motivation would BOM for manipulating weather observations?

I've met a few BOM staff over the years and they all appear to have been very serious professionals working to do the best job possible.

If unsure - then test it !!!

Go down to Bunnings, spend ~$100 to buy a portable weather station, locate it near the BOM weather station in question and publish the results. Questions answered.

https://www.bunnings.com.au/our-rang...ather-stations

Peterc005...I trust the BOM to maintain a database as much as I trust a CASA FOI to understand a p-chart.

Conspiracy!

Well this thread has got me out from the back of the wood pile..:)

Perhaps peterc005 can tell us all about this then...

"...RATHER than admit that temperature dropped to a record low -10.4 degree Celsius on the morning of Sunday 2nd July at Goulburn, the Bureau of Meteorology has come-up with yet another even more absurd story.

Responding to a letter from Josh Frydenberg, the Minister for Environment and Energy, Andrew Johnson, CEO and Director of Meteorology, has claimed the weather station malfunctioned. Previously the Bureau claimed that they had placed new limits on how cold it could get at Goulburn..."

Continues - Bureau Misleads Minister Frydenberg on Goulburn - Jennifer Marohasy





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Computers and sensors never fail and are never our of tolerance? You conspiracy nutters make me giggle.

As I said above, if you have concerns about BOM data buy a weather station to take your own measurements to compare with the BOM.

So far the only argument is an unsubstantiated anecdote about weather data. Show us the facts.

The BOM initially provided the "facts"...

“The correct minimum temperature for Goulburn on 2 July, 2017 is -10.4 recorded at 6.30am at Goulburn Airport AWS… The Bureau’s quality control system, designed to filter out spurious low or high values was set at -10 minimum for Goulburn which is why the record automatically adjusted.”

Then different 'facts' were provided to the minister...

...“the AWS at Goulburn stopped recording when the temperature fell below -10°C.”...

So which of these 'facts' provided by the BOM is correct ?



"...In short, after initially recording -10.0 in the CDO dataset, this was changed to -10.4 three days later following a blog post ( Bureau Erases Goulburn Record Minimum), an outcry on Facebook, and enquires from prominent journalists..."

More fascinating background here: Bureau Misleads Minister Frydenberg on Goulburn - Jennifer Marohasy





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was the weather station at YLGB the official station that the data is taken from? i know at Moorebank, the temperature is taken from Holsworthy airport, well away from the heat island effect, and can vary by quite a few degrees.

I can't talk about the Goulburn incident, but there are a vast number of private weather stations that feed into WUnderground. If you look at them, you will see definite trends across fairly small areas. Local microclimates can play a very big part in climate records.

There have been occasions where massive uproar amongst climate deniers has been caused after temperature corrections have been applied to a data set where the recording station has been moved. Moving a recording station then correcting the temperature bias is sound science, not a conspiracy.

Awww diddums the Minisiter - forced to bull**** us with misleading bull****, instead of his own genuine bull****.:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

Of course the climate is changing.

In the 70's there was the threat of an ice age.

That's changed...

Well lets get back to facts here. There has been a series of unexplained changes to weather data by the BOM. The most recent was the Rutherglen data set which were compared with and "homogenized" with data from around 1000 km away.

Well??? hows that??

And back to aviation and the TTF at Adelaide that was wrong 4 years ago and two 737's end up at Mildura with next to no fuel.

BOM fail, but no SR's issued in the "slow to develop" ATSB report.

Well??

You'd think with these 'homogenizations', some would be homogenised up, and some down. Does anyone know a rough percentage of which way they went?

Correct, advo.

My Airline is constantly issuing additional weather holding/alternate fuel recommendations because they don't trust the BOM forecasts.

Which is weird, because the conspiracy theorists say that the BOM issues overly optimistic forecasts because they are pressured by the airlines to do so!

Fortunately pilots still get to order fuel without influence.

BOM are "Manipulating Temperature Records"?

Let me guess, BOM is behind Chemtrails too?

Only in a Murdoch rag would this make the front page. Hmmm, I guess it qualifies as politics rather as news it ain't.

Yet the ABC will run a story about a fox taking a waz in someones rain gauge....

For real.

As a quirky local story, not top of the evening news.

They are explained, if you ask them.

Anyone who has had to deal with raw data knows that it can have all kinds of problems. This holy grail of pristine raw data that needs no management is a pie in the sky dream.

Look up the BEST project. A group of skeptics with some actual brains went ahead and independently rebuilt the temperature record using the same raw data. They came up with the same results the regular climate scientists came up with. Result, BEST called it a day and agreed that the climate is warming. There was no need to continue what is a lot of hard work to come up with the same results as mainstream scientists.

Marohasy is just a fringe nutter. You can safely ignore her and her small army of amateurs.

Berkeley Earth

"...John Theon, retired chief of NASA’s Climate Processes Research Program and responsible for all weather and climate research, testified that “scientists have manipulated the observed data to justify their model results”..."

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/08/...-and-his-hype/


Meanwhile, back in the land of Oz...

RickNRoll, did this "Best project" use the real raw data or the BOM 'adjusted' raw data?..:hmm:

"...A group of skeptics with some actual brains went ahead and independently rebuilt the temperature record..."

RickNRoll, who were these so-called skeptics - got some names ?








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FWIW, BOM has been trying to get out of the AWOS business for a long time. Unfortunately, due to the contractural obligations, its is likely not going to happen.
What aviation is saddled with is aging, out of date equipment held together with bandaids hoping they can unload the obligation.

A few airports have gone out on there own and secured 3rd party AWOS systems, especially the mining operations.

WUWT? Really?

Don't go down that rabbit hole.

RickNRoll, you have made some fairly 'grandiose' claims. Do you have any substance to back it up?..:hmm:

Again...

RickNRoll, did this "Best project" use the real raw data or the BOM 'adjusted' raw data?..

"...A group of skeptics with some actual brains went ahead and independently rebuilt the temperature record..."

RickNRoll, who were these so-called skeptics - got any names ?





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The link is in the post you quoted. What do you want him to do - reach out through your screen and click it for you?

Seems many without the facts think just a hand-wave to some link is all that is needed. Perhaps a hand-wave to any religious book then makes it true...:hmm:

RickNRoll made the claims. RickNRoll can provide the excerpts or information to back up the claims.





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:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Berkeley Earth


Berkeley Earth team members include:

Richard Muller, Founder and Scientific Director
Elizabeth Muller, Founder and Executive Director
Robert Rohde, Lead Scientist
Zeke Hausfather, Scientist
Steven Mosher, Scientist
Saul Perlmutter, Professor of Physics
Arthur Rosenfeld, Professor of Physics, Former California Energy Commissioner
Jonathan Wurtele, Professor of Physics
Will Glaser, Advisor & Board Member
Per Peterson, Advisor
Gina D’Adamo, Executive Assistant

I see a list of people on the climate industry payroll. Perhaps chuboy can point out these so-called 'skeptics' that RickNRoll alluded to..:hmm:

Meanwhile, an observation on the climate 'industry'.... "...John Theon, retired chief of NASA’s Climate Processes Research Program and responsible for all weather and climate research, testified that “scientists have manipulated the observed data to justify their model results”..."

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/08/...-and-his-hype/


"...Elizabeth Muller is listed as “Founder and Executive Director” of the Berkeley Earth Team along with her father Richard Muller. But since 2008 it appears she’s been earning money as a consultant telling governments how to implement green policies, how to reduce their carbon footprint and how to pick “the right technologies” – presumably meaning the right “Green” technologies..."

http://joannenova.com.au/2012/08/eli...t-consultancy/





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You see what you want to see I guess.

"The funding for the project included $150,000 from the Charles G Koch Charitable Foundation, set up by the billionaire US coal magnate and key backer of the climate-sceptic Heartland Institute think tank."

Interesting. I note that well over half, likely three quarters, of the funding for the Australian greeny industry comes from the mining industry. I don't see much support from the greenys for mining..:hmm:


Continuing... I mighta found this skeptic RickNRoll mentioned. Or maybe not...

"...No skeptic I’ve met said that “… carbon dioxide from burning of fossil fuels will prove to be the greatest pollutant of human history. It is likely to have severe and detrimental effects on global climate.” (Richard Muller, 2003). So perhaps he became a skeptic later? Not so much. Richard Muller, 2008: “There is a consensus that global warming is real. …it’s going to get much, much worse.”

The defining mark of a skeptic is that they never believe simply because there is a “consensus”..."

Muller-the-pretend-skeptic makes three claims. He?s half right on one. « JoNova

Nice little earner Muller and Muller have going here: http://mullerandassociates.com/our-team/


Using the BEST project to back up the BOM claims is looking a bit tenuous eh..:)









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I don't really see how.

No, I didn't think so..:hmm:

It is interesting when you take a look at the people involved in the BEST project and then have a look at the names involved in the Muller & Associates company: Our Team | Muller & Associates. How many are Listed on both sites... five, six.......

So this little diversion to the BEST project has shown us the climate 'industry' write large..:hmm:

Also, the BEST project did not do any audit or due diligence of the BOM temp records so it is a bit silly to attempt to use it as a device to somehow validate the BOM temperature records.


So back to the thread subject...

"Bush meteorologist Lance Pidgeon had hard evidence it was cold near Goulburn in the early hours of July 2 this year because his cold water pipes froze, bursting in the wall and breaking the toilet.

To be certain, Pidgeon checked the Bureau of Meteorology (BoM) website and saw the temperature had plunged to minus 10.4C.

“But then I saw something truly bizarre,” Pidgeon says. The temperature recording on BoM’s website adjusted itself to minus 10C and then disappeared from view..."

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/08/...-inaccuracies/





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You feeling okay binghi? Your posts are even less coherent than usual.

The BEST study represents everything a true skeptic should appreciate. You have really had to scrape the bottom of the barrel in an attempt to convince yourself the conclusions of their study are meaningless.

There are none so blind as those who cannot see!

Chuboy, I think you will find some posts i made in pprune way back when the BEST project first got started. The concept were good though it soon turned to mud when the first 'research' were put out to the media without any peer review. All well covered at WUWT: https://wattsupwiththat.com

I'm still waiting to see from RickNRoll how the BEST project actually relates to the corruption displayed by the Australian BOM. Were the BOM/CSIRO met records actually audited by the BEST project. If not, it is irelavent to this thread - perhaps a diversion of desperation..:hmm:

The Australian BOM corruption has even got the attention of President Trumps main news source:

"...The BOM has now been shamed by media investigations into ordering a review of its procedures. But it has yet to provide an explanation as to why it made these “adjustments” in the first place.

These “adjustments” seem to go only one way. The BOM is perfectly happy to record and announce it whenever Australia’s temperatures hit record-breaking highs. But when the temperatures reach new lows it’s a different matter altogether.

For some strange reason that the BOM has been unable to explain, when temperatures go below a certain point it either deletes them as if they had never been – or it enters them into its records at higher temperature than the one actually recorded by its thermometers..."

Delingpole: Australia's Bureau of Meteorology Caught Erasing Record Low Temperatures





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For the benefit of the Climate Change Skeptics and Chemtrail Crazies:

'It Was Like a Cult': Leaving the World of Online Conspiracy Theories

Oooh! that looks like a really high-brow blog there peter. I can see where you get all your information, from with an Astrology guide amongst the top articles!

To quote Robert Heinlein
"A touchstone to determine the actual worth of an "intellectual" - find out how he feels about astrology."

But then again, to someone who thinks that precision scientific instruments can be found in Bunnings for circa $100 bucks, I suppose anything is believable.

I can see why you wouldn't want to take sites that include any references to astrology seriously, so anything published by news.com.au, https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/horoscopes like the Daily Telegraph No Cookies | Daily Telegraph and Courier Mail No Cookies | The Courier Mail can be ruled out on the same grounds. Good to know.

What I want to know is where the hell all this bloody CO2 came from and who's responsible?
Are we importing it from Mars or somewhere? Bloody Martians, always thought they were shifty.