PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions-91/)
-   -   Wanting to quit aviation (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/593804-wanting-quit-aviation.html)

Lost Pilot 22 22nd Apr 2017 13:11

Wanting to quit aviation
 
This is my first time here so sorry if I've this in the wrong place, but I'm just wanting some opinions/guidance.

Im a pilot in OZ and have been training full time for a while now, and am getting pretty close to my CPL (in about 15 hours if we go by the minimums).

When I first started training I absolutely loved it, I loved getting up in the air and doing any kind of training, whether it be circuits or just practising turns or stalls I loved it all. But over 130 hours down the track It just a'int the same, every time I strap myself to that aircraft it seems like a chore and a burden, and I'm starting to hate it. The passions just gone, and I very really get a kick out of heading up anymore, it doesn't seem to much of a difference what I'm doing (although I'm mostly doing upper air work in preparation for my CPL) or if I'm with an instructor or solo.

There is a word I could use to describe how I'm feeling starting with a "D" but I was told early in my training to never talk about feelings like that (especially to a DOC) , at risk of losing any chance of staying in this industry. (I would just like to say that no I'm not going to do anything stupid or place anyone in risk or danger I would NEVER do anything like that, and I don't feel like that in any way.)

Anyway after completing my CPL I'm meant to be going and doing Instrument work to finish of my qualification/training, however I feel that I don't want to be flying aircraft anymore.
Im not sure if I should just push on and try and complete my training or chuck it all in now (what I feel like I want to do).

It might be worth me adding that I have now have a sizeable loan from the the GOV, and if i pull out now it will affect my eligibility to get a GOV loan and do any training in any other industry in the future as I have not completed this course. And if I do leave the training now I will have nothing to show and a massive loan to payback (already north of 50K) with no other qualifications and virtually no earning potential. If I were to continue at the moment if would feel like only a means to an end, and to have something to show that would hopefully lead to job and a way to pay back my loan.

So what does anyone think? Has anyone else felt like this and wanted to turn there back on aviation, if so what did you do, did you enjoy it again?

Thanks, and any advice greatly appreciated

thorn bird 22nd Apr 2017 22:01

Mate, there are truisms in both sides of your dilemma.
My Dad used to say "Life's too short to dance with ugly women"
Translate that into "If you aint happy doing what your doing, find something else"

Probably true, but from what you say you started out loving your journey.
Its a very tough road to travel to achieve success in this industry, the pressure is extreme.
For some people that pressure can dampen the joy and diminish that sense of pride when you cut your slipstream in a perfect steep turn, kiss the ground in exactly the right spot after a perfect approach, but as time goes by, and the pressures intensify, the adrenalin boost to the ego diminishes and for a lot of people the question gets asked "What the hell am I doing this for?".
Maybe you just need to reconnect with the sheer fun that soaring in the clouds can bring..to use another old adage "Stop and smell the roses"

I've been in aviation for over fifty years and sure there's been ups and downs, but in the end I've managed to reconnect with the fun and sense of achievement where I can't imagine doing anything else.

Maybe if things feel so bad for you, some professional help would help set your mind straight, there's no shame in seeking help, we all could do with some sagely advice every now and then, wish I had done so, would have saved me from a lot of grief on more than a few occasions.
Life's too short old mate, take care of you.

Squawk7700 22nd Apr 2017 22:27


Anyway after completing my CPL I'm meant to be going and doing Instrument work to finish of my qualification/training,
This doesn't sound like YOU are I control here...

Finish off your basic CPL or you really do have nothing to show for your money... you are so close now. Do this, take a small break and re-assess. Don't throw money at IFR as it's more difficult and dry and will certainly put you off more than what you are doing now.

Difficult situation and completely understandable.

If it is the big "D," things may improve after you get some assistance and you may rekindle your love of the skies.

sundaun 22nd Apr 2017 22:49

Lost Pilot 22, if you don't complete your training you will be 24 in two years time, if you complete your CPL, IR and ATPL frozen you will be 24 in two years time and what a great qualification to have!
We all go through periods precipitated by peers or personalities. Never give up!
P M me if you wish.

Flying Bear 22nd Apr 2017 23:21

My humble thoughts, offered from someone who understands a bit about the concept of being in a dark place regarding the nexus between the personal and professional:

Firstly, I suspect you may be a bit professionally "flat" - that is to say that you are losing the joy of flying because you are looking at your training as a long journey that you simply wish to complete, rather than an adventure to be savoured. Perhaps the way your training is presented or the environment in your training organisation needs to be looked at to assist you?

When I go through low patches, I really try to just look out the window when I fly at all the wonderful colours and interesting things for a bit - think less on technical aspects (within reason!) and more on how awesome things look from the unique perspective of an aircraft. Simple things, but often they are the best.

I would offer that you ought to consider not going beyond your CPL at this point. Finish it off, then head north and pick up a job flying VFR singles (all you will get to begin with anyway), then revisit the IR, etc later when you have some experience, proficiency and more importantly, confidence in your abilities and clear direction regarding your path forward.

I wish you the best, mate, but if you can't identify the specific source of your concern, then bust a move and change up your circumstances to possibly root it out - bit you can do this without throwing completely away your investment Andy efforts so far.

Good question to ponder and maybe the start point of your deliberations - why did you REALLY start flying?

jonkster 23rd Apr 2017 01:22

If you initially got a buzz out of flying, it may be worth thinking about what that buzz came from. If it was because you loved flying and aviation, rather than just the idea of the job (being a pilot), if you liked learning new skills and polishing your ability, I think there is a good chance you can get it again by doing some fun flying stuff.

The CPL process can be a drain - particularly when added to the mix is the big financial outlay. Often same type of training plane each day, all focused on ticking boxes, slow progress at times, pressure and criticism. Watching money go out the whole time. Wondering when it will end - do I do more training to get IR etc (and coming across jaded people in the industry, or hearing CPLs with hard luck stories, all complaining so you start to wonder if it is a career you actually want).

It doesn't have to be that way.

Aviation though can be more than flying A to B and back and ticking boxes to meet certain requirements.

Maybe worth thinking about if you can afford it, (and assuming you haven't done this already), book in some time to get an aero's endorsement or a TW endorsement on a fun plane etc. Do some flying for its own sake - with an aeros endorsment, a 40 minute flight every fortnight or so can be a great release, similarly, jumping in a tailwheel and shooting 0.5 of cross wind circuits can be great fun.

See if you can work out what the buzz used to be and try and get some of that back. Just because you are doing a structured CPL course doesn't mean you can't add in some extra curricular flying - flying that is both fun and will polish your skills and broaden your aviation experience so is not wasted time.

I guess that all hinges on if you can afford it though. :( That is the kicker.

The cost these days of getting a CPL is something I don't know how young people cope with. I thought it was bad when I did it a long time ago, I realise now I was fortunate.

Nibbles2310 23rd Apr 2017 03:51

Beaten to it by jonkster. Go and fly purely for fun for a weekend, close any textbooks and forget your CPL for a minute, go and hop in an aerobatic aircraft or tail dragger for a couple of lessons with a new instructor, preferably away from Bankstown or Moorabbin (assuming that's where you're training)

Hopefully you'll come back having remembered why you started in the first place.

Another Number 23rd Apr 2017 04:35

Wait a minute? Is this PPRuNe? There's only been positive and sensible posts - Can't be PPRuNe! Good replies so far, so all I'll say is - that feeling when you've just completed the CPL flight test ... I can't recall anyone not feeling on top of the world after that flight (and can remember the feeling many years later)... probably do wonders for your state of mind ... and confidence, but I agree with other posters here that going straight into IR could be the wrong direction for the moment.

Mail-man 23rd Apr 2017 07:02

Everyone reaches peaks, troughs and plateau's in learning and that can affect mood. I agree with previous posters, go do some aero's and have some fun. Short of that, talk to your instructor and nut out where the fun went. Enjoy your achievements, but don't get down because every flight you ever do can be improved on.

currawong 23rd Apr 2017 07:07

Nothing to stop you taking a break and getting out in the real world to regain a sense of relativity.

I suspect after a few months working construction/ mining/ primary industry or insert crap job of choice here your approach may have regained a renewed sense of urgency...

abgd 23rd Apr 2017 07:24

I'm not a professional pilot, but my feeling would be that if I were only 15-20 hours away from a CPL I'd persevere and get the qualification. The additional amount of money will not be that much in the grand scale of things; you will feel better with yourself if you can see it through and so will future employers, whether or not you stay in the aviation industry. We're presumably talking a few thousand dollars and a month or two?

If you need to take a break first, so be it. If you decide ultimately that it isn't what you want to do, then so be it. I can't speak for aviation, but medicine is another profession where people often find they're not well suited to it after they've invested large amounts of time and money. Few have the guts to leave, but those that do often go on to do very interesting things.

It's good that you have the insight to realise that you're depressed. If you ever do get to the point that things are getting out of hand, then you should obviously go and see someone professional about it. However, make sure that you're getting some time to do non-aviation things. See your friends/family and make sure there's someone you can talk to about how you feel. Exercise is also very good for depression. Try jogging or cycling for half an hour a day.

Ex FSO GRIFFO 23rd Apr 2017 07:38

As an 'old fart', (retired), I would recommend as others have said, that you finish your CPL qualification, then think a little more about the IR - which has to be renewed at great cost if you are still without a flying job - and maybe just relax after gaining your CPL and perhaps take up some 'aeros' to break the cycle, improve your skill, and put the fun back into it all.....

If all else fails, and you decide to give it away, then you have the qualification, and perhaps you might consider using your CPL as a qualification for a career in ATC...??

Its good money and a good 'Super' scheme.....and you will get paid EVERY fortnight..!!

Good Luck
Cheers.... :ok:

Squawk7700 23rd Apr 2017 08:13

I reckon if I flew 150 hours of lessons and navs I'd be feeling the same. You just don't get the social aspect or the enjoyment of flying somewhere, hoteling it or camping etc. That's the part that makes aviation fun.

If you can think about what might make it more fun like taking your significant other or a family member somewhere and heading into town, happy days. Hanging around airports can be quite depressing.

framer 23rd Apr 2017 08:33

My thoughts; I've been doing it for about 25 years and have had two or three low periods where I was 'over it' but for whatever reasons ( I don't know) I kept at it and I'm happy now.
There is some good advice above so all I'll add is that either way, stay or go, it's not the end of the world. Problems like this can seem overwhelming but the reality is you can have a happy life if you carry on, and you can have a happy life if you chuck it in and see what life offers up next.
Who knows, the flying part of your life might just be an interesting dinner story when you are the head of a global charity or a famous sportsperson or even better, Jo Bloggs earning average money with a healthy happy family.
When I was 22 I wrongly attached my identity to aviation. ( I think this is quite common with young people) . As you get older you realise that your identity is other things, how you look after your family, how you contribute to your community, whether people can trust and rely on you, whether you give as much as you take from relationships, that sort of thing is much more important than which way you choose to bring money into the household.
So, my rambling opinion is, it doesn't matter mate. Make the best decision you can and then don't look back.
Cheers
( also, share your concerns with someone , doesn't matter who, but have a chat about it.)

Band a Lot 23rd Apr 2017 10:11

Maybe go to Thailand for a week, relax a bit. Then return and knock over that CPL.


Then re asses your future, I am not a pilot but been playing this aviation game since 1985.

It has its ups and downs, but if I am honest many more ups than downs.

Working other countries was certainly an up (most days), but I almost chucked it all in as an appy also.

So close to the CPL, I would just do it - but think if 1/2 way I would advise "run".

Left 270 23rd Apr 2017 11:12

Not a great deal to add and agree with everything so far.

I love flying but I didn't enjoy training, I did a 150hr syllabus and they managed to suck all the fun out of it. Pressure and less than desirable attitudes from some instructors/school staff can have a large effect on your mood and enthusiasm. I also don't like line training or checks, it's just part of the industry. I DO love the 'job' though, but it has its days still where you want to throw it away, you just need to move past them.

I recently enough did some private flying, probably the first time I had ever really done it as I was always on schedule during training and didn't get much choice as to where I flew, and it made me feel like a kid again. Could go wherever and whenever I wanted and that's what flyings about right? My favourite flying would be a full moon night in good WX, it's about as good as it gets for me, you just need to find your favourite, maybe it's aeros as mentioned, maybe it's TW and so on. Also consider doing some RA time, that's a lot of fun and some good skills to learn.

Also ask yourself if you were feeling 'bad' before starting to fly, it may actually have nothing to do with aviation but the pressure of it bringing to the forefront other issues.

Best of luck finishing your CPL, which I recommend and as stated the day you pass will be one of the best in your life, I vividly remember passing mine!

Band a Lot 23rd Apr 2017 11:19

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mxmFCw-Dig

Is a wonderful watch.

Slatye 23rd Apr 2017 11:43


Originally Posted by Band a Lot (Post 9749707)
It has its ups and downs, but if I am honest many more ups than downs.

Surely the goal of aviation is to have an exactly equal number of ups and downs!

Lost Pilot - you said that you've got maybe 15 hours to go on the CPL if you go by the minimums. How realistic is that? Are you going to be ready to do the test after 15 hours more flying? Or is part of the problem that you still feel like you've got loads of work to do before you reach the appropriate standard?

If it's just 15 more hours, I'd stick that out. At a few hours per day you'll be done within a week, or at a few hours each weekend it's only a month. Even if you never use the CPL it'll do no harm on a resume for other jobs as an example of dedication to a task, ability follow instructions, performance under pressure, etc. As others have said, once it's finished you can take a holiday, do some "fun" flying, and reconsider your future plans.

If it's "minimum 15 hours but realistically 50+ hours" then it's probably time to cut your losses - at least temporarily. Take a holiday, and if you come back from that still feeling like it's a bad idea, then abandon it and find some other work. Exactly the same situation as if you continue now, although without the nice "CPL" to put on your resume.


Looking to the future - is there something that you would like to do? Someone else mentioned a career as an ATC; I'd imagine that there are a range of other flying-related jobs that would benefit from the practical experience but do not actually involve any hands-on flying - and may be more suited to your interests. There are jobs opening up in the UAV space, and a CPL (or even a PPL) gives you an advantage there because it means you've completed a required test and you understand most of the rules. Flight training involves some flying, but not a terribly large amount where you're actually in control (ideally you're just supervising a student after the first few lessons) and plenty of ground work too. Or you can do something else entirely, and you'll probably still find that some aspects of flying (like the ability to decipher regulations) are useful - although of course the further you stray from aviation the more work you'll have to put in to pick up appropriate skills.

Mr_Pilot 23rd Apr 2017 12:15

Considerations...
 
First and foremost congratulations on actually asking for help and advice. You are well on the way to being someone worthwhile, not only as a human but as an employee, showing a great deal of maturity and self awareness which is one of the critical life skills that a lot of people I still know find hard to grasp.

Just my 2c.

I have had some hard times and faced off a couple of times with bosses that paid what they paid 15 years ago, and failed about 5 times as many interviews than what I have passed, including some that I grew up with stars in my eyes for. The point I would like to make to you is that I felt the worst at these times when flying was part and parcel of my identity.

I think it is very easy to get caught up in the swell and final push to get a big shiny jet job and move on to the best company, and get you IFR done asap. But is this going to make you happy?

What drew you to aviation in the first place? Have you heard the stories about bush flying? Have you met any pilots that have done a wet season or two single and ready to mingle... life past the CPL stage opens up a door to you to be used and abused. It is not nice starting out in the industry, and for those of you that will tell you it is, are going to be selling you a dream (that is unobtainable for most,) or a flying school course!

Here there is a dilemma. You didn't do this for the money, so what aspect of flying really thrilled you to begin with?

What I can promise you from experience of what all above me have said and personally if you want to PM for a chat, is that these feeling towards flying all passes, you have to work through it, there are going to be ebbs and flows in all jobs and parts of your life. The experiences you get from dealing with this boredom is not known to you at this time, but may come in handy again (like trying to scrape together the night hour req for an ATPL)... The best part about this though, is that if and when you do get that piece of paper from CASA, you will find a great bunch of guys and girls whom if you work along side of you will have a great time with.

I am long passed caring too much about the flying aspect of my job anymore now, and salute the flagpole every morning for my employer, but I now have responsibilities and wife/kids/and capital city house debt. I need to tow the line and I have come to hit the glass ceiling.


The hope I keep now in my back pocket is the chance of winning lotto, so I could go back to the position you will be in a couple of months (when you finish your CPL - cause you don't sound stupid, and it would be a stupid waste not to push though). I wish if I won lotto to rock up to work in a place like Hamilton island where shorts and barefoot where the only requirements in the uniform guide.


Best of luck, and always feel free to reach out via pm if you need a chat.

MP.

Lead Balloon 23rd Apr 2017 12:21


Originally Posted by Lost Pilot 22 (Post 9748888)
This is my first time here so sorry if I've this in the wrong place, but I'm just wanting some opinions/guidance.

Im a pilot in OZ and have been training full time for a while now, and am getting pretty close to my CPL (in about 15 hours if we go by the minimums).

When I first started training I absolutely loved it, I loved getting up in the air and doing any kind of training, whether it be circuits or just practising turns or stalls I loved it all. But over 130 hours down the track It just a'int the same, every time I strap myself to that aircraft it seems like a chore and a burden, and I'm starting to hate it. The passions just gone, and I very really get a kick out of heading up anymore, it doesn't seem to much of a difference what I'm doing (although I'm mostly doing upper air work in preparation for my CPL) or if I'm with an instructor or solo.

There is a word I could use to describe how I'm feeling starting with a "D" but I was told early in my training to never talk about feelings like that (especially to a DOC) , at risk of losing any chance of staying in this industry. (I would just like to say that no I'm not going to do anything stupid or place anyone in risk or danger I would NEVER do anything like that, and I don't feel like that in any way.)

Anyway after completing my CPL I'm meant to be going and doing Instrument work to finish of my qualification/training, however I feel that I don't want to be flying aircraft anymore.
Im not sure if I should just push on and try and complete my training or chuck it all in now (what I feel like I want to do).

It might be worth me adding that I have now have a sizeable loan from the the GOV, and if i pull out now it will affect my eligibility to get a GOV loan and do any training in any other industry in the future as I have not completed this course. And if I do leave the training now I will have nothing to show and a massive loan to payback (already north of 50K) with no other qualifications and virtually no earning potential. If I were to continue at the moment if would feel like only a means to an end, and to have something to show that would hopefully lead to job and a way to pay back my loan.

So what does anyone think? Has anyone else felt like this and wanted to turn there back on aviation, if so what did you do, did you enjoy it again?

Thanks, and any advice greatly appreciated

It must be terrible for you, Lost Pilot 22. A first post on such a profound question.

So are you from Avmed or are doing some research for a thesis?


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:04.


Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.