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this is correct, just wondering what the usable range could be if recovery needed to be planned around flap failure at about 170 knots (at 10,000 feet if we throw in depressurisation as well |
Originally Posted by bodybag
(Post 9524708)
Oh dear indeed Dashunder,
You have no idea what your talking about. You speak uninformed rubbish.. but if it makes you feel better just keep on banging on. ..and BAT74, 80 + good people lost their jobs and the contract went to a multi-national. Firstly its 2016. Get with the global program. Kicked to the kerb?? Whatever you weirdo. Secondly, believe it or not Cobham only selected those that were suitable. Be it skills or be it attitude, if only a hand full were selected, it speaks volumes of where the previous contract offering was at. Sometimes a good old clean out is just what the doctor (or contract owner) ordered. I feel for you guys, I really do. I've been there. I just cannot see how this carry on is beneficial? If you want to have a winge with old coworkers, why not set up a private Facebook group or something? |
Originally Posted by BAT74
(Post 9525283)
Ha! resorting to name calling. You're such a pro at this. If you can't handle the heat maybe you should stick to Facebook
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"I overheard a conversation the other day that included a discussion of 604 performance. If I heard correctly, to achieve the required SAR drop speeds the 604 would need to be flying with full flap / slats."
No not even close Layman. Whoever is giving you your info should be shoved in a blender. Firstly, the 604 has no slats. As for the speed - nope, doing a RAT drop test flight has the aircraft back at under 140kt with just one stage of flaps. So drop speeds with one stage of flaps, Flap 20, is no problem. BTW, there are 3 stages of flaps. |
Originally Posted by Trevor the lover
(Post 9525329)
No not even close Layman. Whoever is giving you your info should be shoved in a blender. Firstly, the 604 has no slats. As for the speed - nope, doing a RAT drop test flight has the aircraft back at under 140kt with just one stage of flaps. So drop speeds with one stage of flaps, Flap 20, is no problem. BTW, there are 3 stages of flaps. What's the plan when the flap doesn't retract? Recovery at FL140? Below 231 knots. Hope that's factored into the bingo fuel! The more I hear about this operation the more I'm worried about the potential for an accident. Wrong aircraft for the job. |
Secondly, believe it or not Cobham only selected those that were suitable. Be it skills or be it attitude, if only a hand full were selected, it speaks volumes of where the previous contract offering was at. |
Originally Posted by Trevor the lover
(Post 9525329)
"I overheard a conversation the other day that included a discussion of 604 performance. If I heard correctly, to achieve the required SAR drop speeds the 604 would need to be flying with full flap / slats."
No not even close Layman. Whoever is giving you your info should be shoved in a blender. Firstly, the 604 has no slats. As for the speed - nope, doing a RAT drop test flight has the aircraft back at under 140kt with just one stage of flaps. So drop speeds with one stage of flaps, Flap 20, is no problem. BTW, there are 3 stages of flaps. Furthermore selection of aircrew by an HR department without experience in SAR is hardly an endorsement of that proffesionals experience and capability, AMSA had an opinion of people who they would like to have seen supporting the implementation of this new contract, these recommendations were ignored and possibly put the aircrew at a disadvantage, such was Cobhams desire to " create" a new culture. |
Ttl - thanks
RENURPP - my understanding is that RAAF plans for 'worst case' P3 recovery with one engine out, depressurised. I'd assume Cobham SOP would be similar. Slezy9 - thanks |
The Danish Air Force has been using this type for SAR for many years quite successfully.
So what's the problem?? RDAF Eskadrille 721 (721st squadron). 4 x Canadair CL-604 Challenger |
Originally Posted by wasathangi
(Post 9525540)
Oh, not to mention that there is a lot of good experienced guys there,,,:ok::ok:
And no, I'm not bitter. I didn't work for the previous mob, and I was offered a job. Turned it down, not enough money and a bumbling HR department turned me right off! |
The 604 variants may come with or without slats The Danish Air Force has been using this type for SAR for many years quite successfully. Turned it down, not enough money and a bumbling HR department turned me right off! |
Slezy 9 and FMT - not sure why I'm writing this because clearly you guys cannot read. Where did Trev say that the SAR drops would be done at 140kts?? I said, quite clearly, that RAT drops are done at Flap 20, 140kts. I DID NOT say that would be the drop speeds for SAR. The drops speeds will be quite a lot higher and therefore there is a safety buffer.
And I standby for the photos of the 604 with slats. ha ha |
Danish SAR is more than a minor sub-mission>>CL-604 CHALLENGER
ROYAL DANISH AIR FORCE The CL-604 Challenger was originally a civilian aircraft, and it also performs some civilian tasks in the Royal Danish Air Force. It is normally the CL-604 Challenger that carries out VIP flights for the Danish government, the Royal family or Defence Command Denmark. The Danish CL-604 version has had several modifications so we can use it for a variety of missions. Approx 140 days a year the Challenger is deployed to Greenland to perform surveillance and SAR operations over the largest island in the world. With the SLAR and FLIR it has an excellent capability for maritime surveillance in the environmental pollution control role. With the Ocean Eye Radar strapped under its belly it detects ships and icebergs when it operates in the surveillance mode for control of the Fishery zones around Greenland and the Faroe Islands. In both configurations the communication facilities matched with the sensors provide a fine platform for “On Scene Commander” Search and Rescue operations.The aircraft even has a capability to drop life rafts, buoys for collecting samples of pollution and smaller bundles. Configured with seats we can transport 6 – 8 VIP passengers or up to 18 regular passengers. If need be also medical evacuation can be performed carrying patients on stretchers (small injuries). |
Hi TBM - my knowledge of the RDAF's utilisation of their 604s is not based off an airshow website. Whilst not trying to diminish their capability (or your comment), their primary role (by a HUGE margin) is maritime surveillance, particularly fisheries patrol and pollution monitoring. I'm sure they do a brilliant job of SAR, but it forms a very very small part of their tasking - which is completely different to the AMSA Cobham 604s.
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Wasathangi don't be such a wonker. I would have more idea than you would probably ever guess.
Look at my points in context. I was responding to layman saying the drops would have to be done with full flaps and slats. My response initially was not to do with the drops themselves per se - I was pointing out that the aircraft can fly at 140kts with just flap 20 (no I do NOT advocate this config outside of the test flight)- so in context it was debunking Layman's post saying drops have to be done full flap to be able to fly slow enough. You say I have no idea - well mate, MY 604 AFM says min speed clean 170, F20 160, F30 150 - so why is a drop at 180kt clean unsafe when it is 10 kts above the min speed? Please give me your enlightened answer. And if you think I have no idea, then I will happily scan and present my AFM showing the min speeds AND the RAT drop profile. Then maybe you can say the AFM has no idea. Answer my post then YOU can go away - and don't come back. |
And also Wasawanki - I love this quote
As for slats....get real, the aircraft is only 48200lbs (22t round number) What does the weight have to do with it dopey. Why do other jets of the same weight have slats then - Falcon 900 for instance. Who has no idea????? |
15 inches at idle Trev. All other facts will confuse them :)
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This thread is starting to get off track.
The fact is, Perth was supposed to be online on the 8th of August, and they are still not online. Cairns is due next week. |
Originally Posted by Trevor the lover
(Post 9526666)
And also Wasawanki - I love this quote
As for slats....get real, the aircraft is only 48200lbs (22t round number) What does the weight have to do with it dopey. Why do other jets of the same weight have slats then - Falcon 900 for instance. Who has no idea????? |
You're welcome, TREVOR.... No need for it, it's meant to be a discussion about Cobham's delayed introduction of the 604s to SAR service and the reasons behind it. |
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