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100th Anniversary of the 1919 Air Race
I've been talking to famous adventurer and aviator, Lang Kidby in relation to an idea of mine regarding commemorating the 1919 race. I could even be talked into coming up with sponsorship or prize money towards this.
My initial suggestion was that we open it up for Australian pilots and others of the British Empire - as it was in 1919. To bring it up to date we could limit it to electrically powered aircraft that can be charged each night by any way possible. After discussing with Lang, we realised there will have to be substantial improvements in batteries and technology in the next 3 years to make that possible. Does anyone have any other suggestions on how we can have a worthwhile commemoration of that 100th Anniversary? |
The most obvious would be to get Lang to fly the replica over the route again.
Failing that another race similar to the several 1934 1954 1969 etc ones. But with one difference NO GPS, map and compass only. The idea of battery power is great but even with the new Tesla type batteries is probably not possible within the short time ie 3 years. If you do go down the Air Race route you can count me in as a starter, having done this route twice. |
Will it be held in Australia? or a race from England to Oz? i cant imagine many electric aircraft being capable of that feat within 3 years,
But a local Around Oz might work, obviously experimental aircraft only? |
A genuinely great idea, Dick. Encouraging the development and participation of electric aircraft with the carrying capacity, endurance and robustness to cover that route would be a very real contribution to technological advancement.
My selfish request is that consideration also be given to participation by pilots of old, oil burning technology in - e.g. a mini race from e.g. Darwin to Melbourne along the same route being flown by the electric aircraft. Maybe the entry requirement for that 'mini race' could be e.g. payment of a sponsorship of at least a specified amount to one of the electric aircraft teams, or into a pool from which the prize money for the winner/place getters of the electric aircraft racers would be paid? |
My plan was England to Australia in less than 30 days . Just like the original
I reckon it could be possible with electric power in a year or two- hope so. Need to average about 350 mn per day. |
hmmm, rubbing chin thinking about my savvy, 110Ltrs = 70Kg, remove the 912, save a few Kg there replacing it with a 80 to 100 hp electric motor... 70kg of batteries... add a few Kg for titanium lining the battery mountings areas in the wings...
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Gee, that bears some serious thought, Dick.
I had hoped that Lang Kidby could bring the Vimy replica down for the occasion - but a race for electric aircraft - over that route? That's a whole new ball-game. Bring it on! It might be remembered, though, that one third of the competitors suffered fatal crashes largely because of technology limitations. An electric aircraft durability trial in 2019 would be a worthy parallel (hopefully avoiding incidents). Now, I wonder if the AWM would lend me McIntosh & Parer's DH9 for the event? :eek: |
I think Steve Fosset donated the Vimy to the Smithsonian.
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Even if some of the cutting edge electric designs won't make the distance, the technology and infrastructure available to render assistance if something goes wrong is very different than in 1919. But that's all just part of the risk management processes that are now a normal part of participating in these kinds of adventures.
It's a great idea, Dick. |
Wow Dick what a great idea,
In the spirit of the original, although I suspect at substantial cost. Steve. |
Does anyone have any other suggestions on how we can have a worthwhile commemoration of that 100th Anniversary? - DS
Yes, if I may drop in - don't forget to ask Tracey Curtis-Taylor to take part.:rolleyes: Jack |
If you can't do electric, how about unmanned?
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"If you can't do electric, how about unmanned?"
Some of the radio controlled aeromodellers manage to do both. And their aircraft scale is rapidly approaching 1 to 1. :eek: |
Awesome idea!!!!!
I think it would be great for the challenge to be pushing the boundaries of technology and not just an adventure using existing technology. I think that with some concerted effort the electric idea is not too far from possible, after all an electric aircraft has broke 200MPH back in 2012. Home | Flight of the Century There is a risk that within the next 3 years the technology may develop to the point that completing the challenge is trivial... One real challenge for a competitor will be to get the balance between bleeding edge and tried and true right. Do you go bleeding edge and suffer from lack of development or do you go tried and true and get beaten by someone who goes more bleeding edge. The original Air race had a restriction that the aircraft had to be built within the British Empire and was in part to encourage the development of new aircraft technologies. It would be great if the new competition had the similar aims to develop Australian aircraft technology. How would you define Australian made in the modern era of global supply chains would need some careful thought. Awesome Idea! My head is spinning with thoughts about how to win this... |
The original Air race had a restriction that the aircraft had to be built within the British Empire and was in part to encourage the development of new aircraft technologies. It would be great if the new competition had the similar aims to develop Australian aircraft technology. How would you define Australian made in the modern era of global supply chains would need some careful thought. |
UK to Oz 100 years
Great idea for a commemoration...AND to advance the techo for light flight.
There already exists a German electric motor glider with solar panels on the wings and a range in excess of 1000 kms...so its quite feasable. There is also a US electric LSA... the name escapes me..but sleek and fast? The Chinese Yuneeq... which now may be much improved.. was a circuit trainer only..slow and not much range a few years ago. An hour and a half of circuit training... and a re-charge at $7.oo !! The realty would be greater, but how much more affordable would flying be ! A good example would be the Darwin -Adelaide Solar Challenge. Just look at the amazing developments and changes over the years that have occurred there to speed up the journey. Im sure there would be many student groups from around the world with the skills and techo-knowhow to put up a machine to give their country some qudos. All good stuff.:ok: So while all you folk have been paddling down the "Roo Route", (been there done that), I'll meet y'all up in Darwin having crossed Oz with a bag of mail to commemorate the First Aerial Crossing of Australia from Pt Cook to Darwin in 1919. Not sure I can afford an electric biplane tho. :{ Now where do I get a BE 2 replica from... NZed ? |
Dick may be onto a great idea that is possible?
According to Tesla Motors/SpaceX CEO Elon Musk, once batteries are capable of producing 400 Watt-hours per kilogram, with a Power-to-weight ratio of between 0.7-0.8, then an electrical transcontinental aircraft becomes “compelling”. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ntares_20E.jpg Or an electric Cri-cri?? The SkySpark is a joint project of engineering company DigiSky and Polytechnic University of Turin. The two-seat Pioneer Alpi 300 has a 75 kW (101 hp) brushless electric motor powered by lithium polymer batteries. The aircraft achieved a world record of 250 km/h (155 mph) for a human-carrying electric aircraft on 12 June 2009. |
electric long EZ
(shame about the battery failure) |
not to mention the hybrid version of this in the works.. https://i.ytimg.com/vi/fgX0aoMvdSs/maxresdefault.jpg |
Dick,
Make it a global challenge. Three years notice and I'm very sure that many people will answer the call. |
Why don't we get a group together charter a Qantas B747 and fly the 1919 Air Race route?
Then we can say we flew it solo and go on the motivational tour circuit? What was the actual route for the 1919 and 1969 air race? |
1919 Race, it seems there wasn't a fixed route except for the departure point, arrival at Darwin and reporting points at Alexandria and Singapore?
In early 1919, the Commonwealth Government of Australia offered a prize of £A10,000 for the first flight from Great Britain to Australia, under specific conditions. In May 1919, Billy Hughes, Prime Minister of Australia, and Senator George Pearce, Minister for Defence (Australia), in consultation with the Royal Aero Club, stated that valid aircrews must all be Australian nationals, the aircraft must have been constructed in the British Empire, and the journey must be completed within 720 consecutive hours (30 days) and be completed before midnight on 31 December 1920. The departure point must be either Hounslow Heath Aerodrome (for landplanes) or RNAS Calshot (for seaplanes and flying boats), with reporting points at Alexandria and Singapore, and final destination in the region of Darwin. Each flight was to take place under the competition rules of the Royal Aero Club, that would supervise the start, and control the competition generally. http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...-air-race.html |
Tailwheel, any chance you could re-size that image? There's a sticky to help you out if you need it :ok:
Apologies. Fixed! :ok: Tail Wheel |
Originally Posted by CharlieLimaX-Ray
(Post 9237099)
Why don't we get a group together charter a Qantas B747 and fly the 1919 Air Race route?
Then we can say we flew it solo and go on the motivational tour circuit? What was the actual route for the 1919 and 1969 air race? Well, why not, CLX? The Smith brothers in their Vimy stopped over at such delightful places as .. Cairo, Damascus, Basra and Karachi. I'm sure a lot of the locals there will turn out to make us all most welcome. ;) p.s. And I'll be able to show all my friends a witnessed certificate stating that I did it solo. ......After all, I was the only one sitting in that particular seat! . |
Dick's idea is really good.
Commemorative flights in old aircraft have their place but particularly on the UK-Australia route, numerous such flights have become simply personal challenges. The many modern light aircraft flights (not including the great efforts of the on the edge ultra-light people) are little more than a frustrating exercise in administration. The aircraft are relatively fast (100kts is fast to an antique aircraft pilot), comfortable and absolutely reliable with no-stress range and navigational capabilities. Having said that, everyone who has the means should have a go at an intercontinental flight which will result in an experience far beyond anything to be attempted in your home country. The 1919 flight was really that over-used term "cutting edge". Dick's idea is to comemorate that concept by retaining the cutting edge. Looking back at history but looking forward to create something new like the boys of a century ago. It can be done but there is no way it is possible today. Powered gliders might do it but probably not acceptable on air routes with changing altitudes and chasing thermals which would be absolutely necessary to achieve the range left short by the current failure to come up with an efficient electrical storage system. In 3 years? I have high hopes and Dick's idea is worthy of chasing. |
The link below goes to a paper that was sent to me by Lang Kidby and shows the difficulty at the present time in building an electric powered aeroplane that could fly from the UK to Australia.
Of course we have 3 years between now and then but from what I can make out, we’d need some pretty staggering improvements in the reduction of battery weight to be able to have such an Air Race. What do others think? See here, http://www.mh-aerotools.de/company/p...AVT-209-09.pdf |
Dick,
I am sure that the paper is as damming as you think. Their focus in that paper was on commercially viable aircraft for transport and that I do think that is a long way off. The electric aircraft that can do this now is a practical for taking the family to Bali as the Victor Vimy. Look at figure 16 in the paper. This shows that if the battery energy density is 250whr/kg, the mbattery/mtotal is 0.6 and the L/d is 20 you can get a range of about 750km. With careful consideration of logistics this might just be enough. These numbers are achievable with current 2016 technology but with a significant amount of development work. If you can get the L/d to 40, The energy density up to 300whr/kg and the mbattery/mtotal to 0.7 and by that graph it romps out to 2500km range. Imagine a single seat version of the Stemme S10 with a 600kg battery, 70kg pilot and about 250kg of structure. |
No One, you’re absolutely correct of course.
By the way, it looks as if the maximum distance required will be 258 nautical miles from Kupang to Troughton Island, that’s 478 km. That starts to make me believe it could be achievable. I’m considering putting up AUD $1 million prize money but I need to think a lot more about this and get a lot more advice before I firm this up. |
Don't restrict entry to Commonwealth only.
Open it up to any Country and try to get as many Competitors as possible. More successful and more News Worthy then. IMHO. |
Yes. Definitely open to all comers. The main aim will be to promote innovation and dare I say it ADVENTURE !
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Dick,
A few points for you to ponder as you mull over the nature of the competition: • Is the event going to be a race, ie all start at the same time first to finish? Or more like the original where the prize went to the first to do it and any starting time was allowed? • If it is a race should it be flying time or total time? Do you want to encourage short fast hops or longer slower flights? Do you want to include recharging time? • How do you resolve bad weather into that equation? It would be good if the decision not to proceed into a CB wasn’t the deciding factor in the race but also you don’t want people camped out in one place for a month waiting for exactly the right tailwind to minimise their total elapsed time. • Is having the same battery the whole way required? It could get expensive if teams decided to over discharge batteries to gain an advantage if they just replace them at the next stop. But would a team be disqualified if a cell went bad? • Do you want to limit battery technologies? If a highly unstable but energy dense technology is developed would you allow it and take the risk? • Do you allow support aircraft? Support technicians? Pilot changes? Some of this becomes easier if the support is shared ie all aircraft fly to the one airport on day 1 but this limits some of the decisions above about a race all at one time and it cant be based on total time. • Do you have a qualifying event a year or so before hand? Perhaps require a 1000km/nm flight(s). This would give you some certainty that the event was going to happen a year out. If you get no qualifiers (I suspect that you will get lots) you can pull the pin before having a big media letdown. This might though rule out some teams who are late to get organised but otherwise likely to be key competitors. |
All good points
I would imagine a first start date and time and then it's who gets to Darwin first Just like the original. Participants will organise their own clearances and support. The minimum rules necessary. Probably start not before June 1919 so can get through before the worst of the monsoon. Probably not allow the dumping of batteries en route. May end up with some different classes otherwise Mr Piccard could win with his existing aircraft and we do want to drive innovation over the next three years. I would say that the same crew must make the full journey. No prelim flights. Too expensive to organise. Whoever gets to Darwin first. Just like the first race. |
I would expect the early use of passenger aircraft would use a replaceable but rechargeable battery pack/s. The time taken to recharge fixed units would make for long stopovers.
So to focus on only allowing 1 battery to be used, may put the intention of the idea in the wrong direction. Using exchange battery's on planned locations could be a good idea, and make for Cliff Young flights to happen if allowed. |
Following is the most recent article published in The Australian today.
Dick Smith's $1m air race prize: government 'lacks imagination' Businessman and aviator Dick Smith has lamented the government’s “lack of imagination” for failing to commit financial incentives or support for an electric-powered air race from England to Australia to spur on innovation in aviation. Mr Smith is willing to stump up $1 million of his own money to support the initiative which would be timed to coincide with the 100-year anniversary of the first England to Australia Air Race. Mr Smith had wanted the government to match his offer of a $1m prize but so far he has not received any commitment that it would do so. He says he will now direct that money to a charity. “It’s just all talk with this government,’’ Mr Smith said. “It seems you need three years of talking before anything can get done. Where’s the action?” “I wish we had Billy Hughes back who came up with the idea for the 1919 England to Australia flight and put up £10,000 prizemoney. That was a prime minister who understood innovation.” The 1919 event drew six competitors but only one — headed by captain Ross Smith and his brother Keith as navigator — finished within the allotted 30-day time limit. The only other plane to complete the journey took 206 days, but the event was deemed a success because the 27-day, 20-hour effort by the Smiths was extraordinary at the time. “I have this idea to repeat the race 100 years later — but this time put a different angle on it, that it’s the fastest plane that can get from England to Australia that is electrically powered,” Mr Smith wrote to then industry, innovation and science minister Christopher Pyne and major projects minister Paul Fletcher in March. “At the present time this just can’t be done, as the greatest range aeroplane is about 300 nautical miles and the pilot would need at least 400 to fly from Timor to Australia.” Both Mr Pyne and Mr Fletcher expressed interest in the idea with the latter describing it as “an exciting concept”. “I will raise with Christopher Pyne in the first instance — I’ll come back to you in a few days to let you know status,” Mr Fletcher said in March. But since those letters to the government in March, Mr Smith says the line has gone cold. Mr Smith wrote to the new Minister for Industry, Innovation and Science, Greg Hunt, late last month, but claims he has been passed on to Transport Minister Darren Chester. “There appears to be a consistent lack of any leadership or decision-making by all ministers,’’ Mr Smith said. “How can a minister that has the word ‘innovation’ in his job description just forward it on to a colleague who will clearly do nothing.’’ A spokeswoman for Mr Chester said the minister had met Mr Smith in the past and appreciated his passion for Australian aviation. “The minister’s office has received correspondence from Mr Smith in relation to the proposed air race and the minister would be happy to have further discussions regarding the support he requires, if any, from the government,” the spokeswoman said. |
Dick why not hit up Michael Gunner? He will still be in office then, and we know a bit about solar racing up this way - Might replace the $ Million Fish.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Solar_Challenge |
Sounds like a worthy idea, from the bloke who's full of ideas, at the best of times!
My opinion is to not be too restrictive on the entrants. It's not 1919 any more, it's 2019 and the only thing we need to keep uppermost in the race rules is advances and improvements in "aviation technology". Set up race classes (just like car racing), and offer rewards for lightest aircraft, electric aircraft, hybrid aircraft, conventional aircraft showing tehcnological improvements, etc., etc. And of course, large Dick Smith advertising decals on every aircraft, would be a basic requirement! :ok: |
What sort of electric motor/s would 51,060 x 3500mAh Lithium-ion batteries run? or need batteries with a bit more bang than that?
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Lithium-Air battery cells which have already been developed, are capable of around 12kWh/Kg, petrol is around 13kWh/Kg, with further development they could be on to a good thing, I am optimistic in 3 years we will have a winner
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