Edsbar, the LBS should then state what "system" it is to be maintained to.

Correct Eddie Dean but it does not have to be a SOM as per the previous samples.

Itsbrokenagain from experience with other US Cessna Servive Centres the labour rate is comparable. In the CAB you will find a letter from the FAA ruling that the Task based system can not be used for US registered Part 91 aircraft and a complete airplane inspection has to be carried out each year, in Dicks case this would mean a bill bigger than this years estimate EVERY year.

Interesting, edsbar, is that from your local AWI?

No Eddie, a Class B aircraft does not require an SOM.

If you want the 5,000 hour TBO as per AD/ENG/5 however you need a SOM ...

AD/ENG/5
Amdt 9
PT6A Enhanced Maintenance Program Appendix A
REQUIREMENTS
The PT6A engine maintenance program shall be carried out in accordance with approved maintenance
data and detailed in a system of maintenance approved under Civil Aviation Regulation (CAR 1988)
42M. The system of maintenance shall include, but need not be limited to, the following requirements .......

No argument from me, edsbar, you will get some from CASA though.

To get back to OP. Mr Smith, can you show front page of your LBS to see what SOM it is being maintained to?

Let me clarify that ...... Class B aircraft do not require an SOM approved under CAR 42M unless directed.

Class A require a CAR42M SOM ref ...CIVIL AVIATION REGULATIONS 1988 - REG 39 Maintenance required by approved system of maintenance

In the case of a Caravan as per AD/ENG/5 if you do not have a CAR42M SOM in place you would have to overhaul the engine at 3,600 hours instead of CASA's generous 5,000 Hour TBO. You will not get 5,000 hours in the USA as a TBO on a PT6A unless you enrolled in a Pratt program with a cost of 10k US+.

The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence!

Just pointing out the costs that apply to a turbine aircraft!


It is any low usage aircraft with big calendar time items Dick.

Price a C441, C402, C310 or R44 over a 20 year period @50ish hours per year. While the Cessna in private ops (not C441) do not require 12 year engine overhaul the R44 do. I don't play with heli's but think only 2 rebuilds on Robinsons allowed - but I could be wrong on that, if not it is scrap in 36 years and 1800 hrs. Again I don't play much with C208 but sure it has no year life yet, maybe it will live to be 40+?

Clearly you are an aircraft owner that does not understand the maintenance requirements of your aircraft. Instead of having a winge on pprune, how about you go and have a chat with the workshop. The engineers are always more than happy to educate you on your aircraft. Also I would like to point out that as the owner you are meant to be telling the engineers what to do.

I have has numerous " chats" with the maintenance organisation .

They made major changes to the schedule when special info for low time aircraft was provided by Cessna in the USA .

Once again- I simply want to communicate the high costs for maintenance on a simple non- pressurised aircraft.

Check rotorheads in the next few days where I will be putting details of the recent yearly costing about $96,000 for my Agusta 109e !

I get where you are coming from Dick, but it is not the YEARLY inspection on the C208 that put it at +$30k it was the 4 yearly stuff!


I expect it to be the same with your chopper that puts if at $96K, a annual in itself is basically just what is contained CASA shed 5 and depending on machine would be about 45 hrs for C208.

So what's the answer Dick?

The answer is simple. If you are attempting to operate one of these aircraft in a viable commercial operation in Australia don't do it.

Stick to a Beaver float plane or a Navajo.

I find it interesting that apparently $110 an hour for a qualified Lame to work on million dollar aircraft is considered expensive and yet what else could you get for that? Try getting a plumber or electrician. Heck the last time I had my car serviced the rate was more than $110 an hour.

It really isn't the hourly rate that is the problem.... It's the number of hours! Which is not always the fault of the maintenance organisation. 268 maintenance hours for 50 hours flying! We're not the military y'know :)

Dick is right the only way to operate commercially is to have low capital cost aircraft with a good coat of paint and nice interiors, the punters just don't know otherwise.

I use to have a Citation 2, it was the first to get to 10,000 hours, but looked good, cost was $900,000, competiting against me in the charter market was another C550 with only 2,000 hours costing $2,000,000

Both looked identical, guess which aircraft made money.

I don't know what standards the van and citations are made to but the rumour is the part 23 rewrite in the US will cut GA aircraft costs In half (for new designs anyway)

Its actually just a utilization problem. I would not classify your operation as a commercial op. What you use in a year would be what most of the caravan operators would do in two weeks.

For arguments sake, the 4 yearly inspection is $13,000.
$13,000 / 200hrs is $65 an hour.

A typical operation is around 1000-1200hrs a year. Using 1000hrs. $13,000/4000 = $3.25 an hour.

Even if it wasn't calendar requirements and just a $34,000 bill.
$34,000 / 50hrs = $680 an hour.
$34,000 / 1000 = $34 an hour. Hardly a bank breaker that makes the caravan uneconomical.

It makes a huge difference in running costs.
With your utilization, any aircraft with calendar items is going to be a huge cost per hour.

While the scheduled stuff costs a little more on the van, the dispatch reliability is hard to beat. The unscheduled maintenance on the PA31 is getting higher as it gets older.
I've operated both machines. The caravan beats the PA31 hands down in nearly all aspects.

costs
 

Why has all of the manufacturing gone from Australia? why have all the call centres gone from Australia? Why has much of business admin gone from Australia? OUR COSTS ARE TOO HIGH. Not only labour costs but power water gas fuel etc etc. Aust has priced itself out of the markets.

I note that nearly always labour cost is put as one of the main reasons the world is coming to an end. companies winge endlessly, governments and ofcourse the good old Murdoch press. So please tell me what as a LAME I should be getting paid? And dont come the old worn out story of, well its cheaper oversees, just give me a number YOU think it should be.:rolleyes:

I'll give you something to think about Arnold:

*How about a written guarantee of your work (when you f#ck up & the aircraft has to return for rectification, you fix it no questions asked).

*How about a fixed price service for a 100 hourly, that is, the things that you do EVERY 100 hourly are at a fixed price.

*How about you call me before you undertake extra or unexpected work.

*How about you don't charge your apprentice out at a LAME rate.

*How about getting to together with all your LAME mates, institute a charter of work quality, rights and responsibilities.

When you've done all that I'll gladly pay you $120 per hour

you should take your concerns up with your LAME, not force every engineering organization to write up some 'charter of work quality, rights and responsibilities' which would take money, time, coordination and negotiation-who's going to fund it?
if you have concerns with an organization- then speak up, if they don't listen then don't use them.