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-   The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions-91/)
-   -   Replica Spitfire accident at Watts Bridge 29/8/15 (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/566876-replica-spitfire-accident-watts-bridge-29-8-15-a.html)

Jungmeister 30th Aug 2015 22:53

Similar Problem?
 
This happened about 18 months ago at Parafield:
http://https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2013/aair/ao-2013-051.aspx

Squawk7700 30th Aug 2015 22:59

Re my comment, I realise that left aileron is being applied, it's just the ailerons don't appear to move much it seems... Probably typical for a high speed aircraft.

Lookleft 30th Aug 2015 23:21


Top screen shot - is that RIGHT rudder input (note the position of the balance horn)?
I think your are spot on D9. It looks like he is physically leaning to the left to get the left wing down and has quite possibly put pressure on the right rudder pedal. A bit like John Denver reaching over his left shoulder to change fuel tanks on his final flight. He did well though to cut the power and just put it on the ground before it got too far.

AerocatS2A 30th Aug 2015 23:49

At the very start of his take-off roll, it looks like the left flap is down but right isn't. Or is the right just lost in the shadows?

Dexta 31st Aug 2015 00:01

What looks like to be the left flap down is actually the left radiator, as the aircraft moves past you can see it move into perspective.

Dog One 31st Aug 2015 03:28

The evidence presented in the two photos show right rudder and left aileron being applied.The ailerons would not have been very effective due to the low speed. This leads to auto rotation, where applying left aileron causes a roll to the right. This was the method used to spin DHC1 Chipmunks. The photos show that it was past recovering and the pilot did the right thing in closing the throttle.

rioncentu 31st Aug 2015 04:13

Yeah makes all the training to keep one's hand on the throttle during takeoff come into perspective. A half second delay in the chop might have meant the chop for some poor folks on the sideline.

Lookleft 31st Aug 2015 05:24

I think the left aileron would have been a lot more effective if the right rudder had not been applied! I doubt the pilot was aware of what was happening with the rudder in the brief moment he had to try and comprehend why it wasn't responding to left control column input.

no_one 31st Aug 2015 05:46

I cant make it out from the video but could it be that being an auto conversion with a PSRU the prop turns the opposite direction to a lycoming/continential. I wonder how familiar the pilot was with the aircraft.

Or a control lock still in place?

Or just low performance pilot in high performance aircraft?

IFEZ 31st Aug 2015 07:16

Not that I'm any expert with Spitfires (far from it!) but every time I've seen them take off, they accelerate to level attitude ie tail wheel well off the ground and then lift off. Looks like he let it get off the ground too early, too slow, tail wheel still on the ground hence high nose attitude and lost it. Did well to recognise a bad situation and pull the pin before it got a whole lot worse.

Ultralights 31st Aug 2015 08:04

tip stall.. research it. especially with elliptical wings.

PA39 31st Aug 2015 09:01

crash
 
The left wing shows more lift at lift off, I would agree with asymmetric flap problem.

Stanwell 31st Aug 2015 09:03

The only observation I can make is that he didn't (couldn't ?) get the tail up to reach proper Vr.

Andy_RR 31st Aug 2015 09:28

Misapplication of all that Merlin power, obviously...

jas24zzk 31st Aug 2015 09:43

It's blurry, and you only get a brief look.

Take a look at the video Pseudonym posted on Page one. You have a 1 second window to look at the back view, almost square on before the video goes blurry again.

Revising my thoughts on the initial video....not quite convinced, but all the same.

spinex 31st Aug 2015 22:58

jas24zzk I'm intrigued as to what you see in that section of the video - I've had another look and the flap (s) may be drooping slightly in the rear view - frankly though, I suspect my own flaps and a few other bits would be drooping a little after a bang like that :eek:, so I'm not sure you can read too much into it.

Oakape 31st Aug 2015 23:26

It appears the the roll commences just before lift off, with the left wheel leaving the runway first & the roll continuing through out the accident sequence.

Dog One 1st Sep 2015 02:32

Was there a cross wind?

ForkTailedDrKiller 1st Sep 2015 02:41

I know nothing about this aircraft. Is it a real Spitfire or some sort of pretend Spitfire?

If real or close to, is torque roll likely to be an issue? The right wing going down suggests the possibility.

Dr :8

spinex 1st Sep 2015 03:35

One of the 80% scale, home brewed ones. Not sure about this one, but the normal powerplant is an Isuzu V6 allegedly good for a bit over 300 gee gees. Not too bad for 800kg odd, but well short of Messrs Rolls and Royce's effort.


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