Hi Slezy, I don't know that impartiality is a requirement for a rumour network. You are correct though, there is resentment from folk who have dedicated large chunks of their lives to Coastwatch and AMSA, and they have been effectively thrown under the bus.what can you say of an organisation that is so arrogant that it turns away this level of expertise. This is also an indictment that the Commonwealth are happy to ignore this transfer of skills as unimportant.That coupled with the cost over runs and unsuitable airframe suggest that the selection was biaised to the foreign entity who now has a monopoly on the two most significant special mission contracts in Australia. Yep we are angry, and feeling betrayed.
Look out it can happen to any of us.

Hey Afterburn - tried to PM you but couldn't. Can you PM me so I can send to you??!!


Trev

So, these guys are finding themselves advertising again for captains and FOs for Cairns base. By all rights, this should be an attractive job - but clearly it isn't. Cobham need to get real wrt their salary package on this one.

Would you please post a link to the advertisement for Cairns based crew?
Thank you.

Famzos: Australian Federation of Air Pilots - Pilot Jobs in Asia Pacific Region

Wasathangi

Are you suggesting the contract was signed with known unknowns? ie what it can or can't drop.

Wouldn't it be good, even just once, if a govt department purchased something off the shelf, and it works - on time and on budget? I'm thinking Sea Sprites, air to air refuelling etc etc

Wasathangi, if they are dropping now from 604 I believe people would want to know what the accuracy is. You seem to be in the know can you elaborate.

Wasathangi I don't know where you get your information but there were plenty of AR crew who put in EOI's that didn't get an interview. My understanding of the process was it was very unprofessional with crew not getting an email response at all. Looked rather petty and spiteful, those in the game know who was pushing the buttons.

Wasathangi I can vouch for the above. I also know of multiple AR pilots who got nothing more than a "thanks for your application, we will be in touch", AR pilots who have had NO previous affiliation with Cobham in the past. Many never progressed beyond the online application stage even though they are performing the job currently. Then to see the job re-advertised again just last week? What a joke.:ugh:

Did the guys who received the "thanks but no thanks" letter apply for Captains position with no jet time?

Renurrp, I know of at least 3 fellas who had multiple jet ratings that didn't get a look in. I also know who they hired and their type of time. No disrespect as I'm sure they are worthy, but experience counts for a bit at 200ft in a SS7. People didn't even get a thanks but no thanks either, rude to the extreme. It says a fair bit about the type of company they are when they can't even notify unsuccessful candidates, particularly when they meet all the requirements and more.

So who have they hired then? Guys with type ratings already? Or guys with low level experience?

Jet ratings? Does that mean hrs or just a rating?

If I were them, and considered low level experience as essential, which I don't, I would be looking at their own Dash 8 pilots before external turbo prop guys who can steer and aircraft at 200 feet. (It's not that hard)

If I were them and I'm not, nor would they listen, I would definitely be looking for experienced guys with jet time. Considering the frequency they get airborne experience will count and I don't count playing games in the sim as suitable experience.

The blokes I know had jet experience, low level jet experience at that. So Renurrp you don't think low level dropping is that hard? Therein lies the problem. Experience in low level SAR operations is critical, particularly when the bulk of your training will be done in the sim, on an aircraft that has a slick wing when you're running 15 knots shy of the stall speed. Smarter minds than me are at work here and good luck to Cobham, I'm just pointing out that the AR crew didn't all get an interview and were dealt with rather rudely when it came to letting them know they were unsuccessful.

I'm not familiar with the CL604. Do you mean Vs +15, or Vmin +15?

Capt Claret and other posters, I must apologize also. It appears the V2 speed as best as I can discover is 149 knots, + 15 would give us 164 knots not 180 knots drop speed as the Townsville refueller told me.

No. I sought clarification of your statement.

Perhaps. There are automation philosophies that are either all or nothing, i.e., if AP is off then AT must be off as well. I don't know how SM will run the CL604 but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if AT and AP were verboten below 1000'.

Likewise, there are automation philosophies that are half and half. Like your machine, AS2A ;) and another "close by" light twin that looks like a mad dog. I understand the all-on-all-off was/is a 737 thing due to the PIOs that occur when the driver is changing the power whilst handflying. Certainly with centreline/mid-level engines, hand-flying with a decent ATS is a no-brainer.

The auto throttle will be permanently off.... As the Cobham 604's are apparently fitted for but not with!! Seems like AT would have been handy, even if just for the takeoff and cruise!

Although the manufacturer is ok with half and half, the current company management are of an all or nothing mindset. Not that I'm likely to fly an RJ again any time soon.

I realise this thread was created due to comments regarding Cobham SAR jobs, and focus is being placed on recruiting difficulties because of the radical departure from the norm for Sar. The recruiting is further complicated due to a conflicting range of operational imperatives, not too many people have the varied skill sets required for this work.

21 tonne jet, lots of inertia, and a lovely slick wing that needs speed.
Requirement for visual search at 120 -140 kts
Drop the current inventory of stores, big objects out of a small door.
Visual search (critical) with a low wing aircraft, not globally accepted.
An expectation that drops will be conducted at 100 -200 ft accurately.
Current drop speed approx 180 kts plus.
Do all of this as much as possible by simulation to save non revenue flying.

The aircraft has already been grounded after drop trials resulted in the store impacting the aircraft.some one earlier pointed out that there was zero chance of an engine ingesting drop items, I bet they also thought that there would be no chance of stores impact. If you have done this job for a long time keep looking for the items that might bite you. If you are new, be very very careful, and don't be cocky in areas you are yet to learn.
Cobham may sort their way through this, and if they do I will publicly applauded them. The issue is it should never have been this hard.
Aviation is a risk based activity, we try and mitigated it every step of the way. In this case AMSA,s selection has tried to put a square peg in a round hole. How many more contract variations are yet to come. I sincerely hope no one gets hurt, even better if some lives are saved.
Very high level of difficulty

Just wondering if you have anymore information on the store impacting the aircraft... I can see on FlightAware that the last flight was 12 March, surely there would be a incident report submitted to the ATSB for something like this?

Cant be too difficult - I know one applicant - 13,000 hours, 11,000 jet hours, 1100 hours command 604, flight examiner, instrument rating examiner, sim instructor, and worked for 2 years in a dedicated Search and Rescue Unit - didn't even get thru the first "computer" interview.
Well that's the assumption because they didn't have the common decency to EVER get back to him.

Rodney, that's the way Hr works in Australia now. They are contemptuous of people applying for jobs,. The problem with this role is Cobham have been in a station keeping excercise for a decade. All they needed to do was keep a trickle of pilots and backenders flowing into the Coastwatch system. Now all of a sudden they have the HR and pilot chiefs needing to recruit an extra 80 or so people in an aircraft type they don't know, in a role they have no experience in.
Low level Sar ops in a jet.

The process is a joke, and they are making heaps of friends with their arrogance.
One day industry will realise if you need someone with a particular skill set then you should

1. Interview them and check credentials
2. See if they actually have the skills you need - scenario based sim session.

After that you can make them take all the quizzes you like, hell they can fill out sudoku puzzles in the crew room to HR s hearts content.

Bottom line - if you don't know what skill set you need, try and use psychology to save on sim costs by knocking some candidates out. HR you got it all wrong, there is no substitute to interviewing people in an intelligent way asking sensible questions to test the candidates fit, then the pilot should get the opportunity to show their skills in the sim.(after all isn't that what we want, competency)
And what the hell happened to common courtesy, people put hours of work into their dreams of landing a job that could make a difference and not even an automated response. That's disgusting, wake up HR departments everywhere, I really hope you are on the receiving end of this completely unprofessional methodology one day.

even for those who received an offer
 

Story I heard (friend of a friend of a friend etc) about someone who did get an offer is that they did "all" the following up, at several stages of the process, sometimes multiple times to get a 'sort of' answer ... until they received their offer.

It would seem Cobham HR has a problem. Hopefully not indicative of their operational side

cheers
layman

Chief Pilot never heard of me, and never received the applications I sent in on two occasions.

Would anyone that had an interview or got offered a position like to share the sort of hours & experience they had ? Guys/girls coming back from overseas ? Airline jobs, military ?? Were the positions filled before they were even advertised ? Sounds like a competitive market !

Have a read of the EBA which was agreed with the TWU before any flight crew were even hired for this role…

Expected to operate anywhere in the World, particularly Australasia for a multi million dollar Government contract…sounds great…wait...pilots are to provide their own flight publications! WTF

Very low currency expected so Sim has been purchased to offset this…great, sim expected 4 times a year…no wait, want ing to save money, lets try 3 times a year…

That's ok then, local training flights to cover off all recency requirements then like present incumbents do…no wait, those will be covered off on tasking flights, want to avoid non-revenue flights…

Wait, you will need to share accommodation with your sim partner while you do your endorsement…

And of course the pay offered in the EBA is about 20K short of what you would expect, and from what I understand, turbo-prop drivers going to this contract are taking a pay cut.

Great lifestyle of course. :ok:

Cobham financial turmoil leading up to SAR implementation
 

http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviation/fifo-aviation-operator-cobham-to-raise-941m-amid-mining-slowdown-20160426-gofqx3.html

Check out the link, AMSA may find this is going to continue to cost them more- for less

Five years SAR experience on the Dornier as a Captain over 1200 hours. Currently on a jet with over 2300 jet time above 40t. Total over 10000 hours not a reply don't care now moved on food for thaught.

Cobham HR is a load of crock! The profile for this job is about 35 years of age , ex military, air force preferred, and possible CL 604 endorsement . Did the interviews, did the sim, cost me bomb. No thanks!!

I did get a reply last week but didn't accept the terms and conditions and providing experience covered a previous posters request.With 27 years of flying experience having over 10000 hours isn't boasting.

How's it going Cobham aircrew
 

Only a couple of weeks to go before training starts, 2 months to go before Perth is supposed to be online, Two aircraft in country neither fitted with radar or other sensors. No useful ability for dropping let alone practised accuracy. Looming rip off for the peeps of Australia. Wrong company and aircraft for the job

Judging by some of the info/rumours on here, your mission instructions will be sent out via osmosis, and you'll be provided with standard McGuyver kit (amounting to little more than chewing gum, chlorine and a safety clip) and expected to achieve the impossible contract requirements :)

No way- check the rego for a " search aircraft" not a good start https://d31asmy75eposw.cloudfront.ne...1457094002.jpg

No -way, check out the rego for this new " search " aircraft, how unfortunate
 

Nice wingtip...

Has anyone heard from Cobham about the Essendon based position advertised recently?