From the crystal ball -
 

A glimpse of the future – Here – where the risk of a mid air meeting has been reduced exponentially by clever regulation and diabolical costing.

L'P - There will be no need to repair the airport road and the bus company will only pay the increased cost to maintain 'their' bit: unless a concession to use the empty taxiways is issued. I believe that part of 61 could be used to grant a license to operate as where required. How else will they move the dog food factory staff or the pink bat production about the place, if not by bus ??.

What a mess....;)

Very interesting article K.

My Dad had a house in Spain back in the 60's. When he and my Mum toured by road, they'd stop at interesting places, visit the local aeroclub and hire an aircraft for a sightsee. From some of his Pic's it was really humming in GA back then.
Some of the comments perhaps tell it all. EASA rules and privatization have pretty much killed GA in Europe.

Some samples

Holy Joe • 8 hours ago I had my first flight in 1944.. The problem with General Aviation and private ownership in the U.K. & Europe (where it is much worse than the U.K.) is the cost and very high fuel taxation coupled with rigid and restricting Government Controls and other requirements & impositions. Which is why young Europeans flock to places like Florida, to learn to fly (My bold)

They'll flock to NZ as well once the true costs of Part 142 and 61 begin to bite.

passerby • an hour ago
Could the infrequency of flights be related to the insane fees and governmental control that pilots must be subjected to over there...?
Government really will take away our freedoms, not only to fly but in other areas if we let them.
Wake up before the next election...(My bold)

Isn't that what Creamie has banged on about?

C. John Graham • 5 hours ago The same is true in Italy and Greece, and elsewhere we traveled on a recent 6-month round-the-world vacation. Except in New Zealand, sightings of GA aircraft were rare and consisted mostly of commercial sightseeing operations. We're very fortunate in the US. (My Bold)

Ah but NZ has PROPER REGULATION.

Richard • a day ago I agree, it's a great shame. I feel this needs to be viewed as a warning to all pilots in the US and my home country, Canada. It's a stark demonstration for all of us who love GA, of what happens when you let people slowly erode your freedoms and the things you love. (My Bold)

le Pingouin

Inside the airport boundary, roads to the tilt up monstrosities are maintained by Jandakot Airport Holdings. Once you get beyond them to the aerodrome bit the roads are not maintained at all.

Unless you count this as "maintenance". (by Gate 9 at Jandakot)

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h3...psda883189.jpg

TB, and in regard to your post #122, I suppose the issue of HOX has been raised somewhere else on this thread. Nonetheless, and despite the passage of time, what I regard as sheer chicanery still sticks in my craw. That beautiful little airfield sacrificed to Mammon; aided and abetted by a bunch of pencil pushers that know squat about aviation. Same goes for the E/W at BK - nobody in authority in CBR had the foggiest about the importance of an E/W for GA in the basin. Either that or they didn't give a sh*t.

In respect of HOX, my wife hates a trip down the M7 because I go into auto-jabber every time we get abeam. I see those bloody warehouses where there used to be aircraft, grass and movement areas and just want to spew - all gone, never to be seen again.

I need a drink!

Hi CP, isn't privatization just peachy when it comes to aviation infrastructure that was already owned by the Australian 'body corporate'?

Your pic is a sad but accurate vignette regarding the demise of GA, and the clueless that formulate policy in CBR.

I need another drink.

Indeed.

My leasehold is currently flooded because water comes from the next lease and the road, over the crossover and onto my property.

I have been trying for two years to get them to answer emails about installing a drain in the crossover. Meanwhile my brick paving is all destroyed and the place looks derelict...no point fixing it as it will just keep flooding every time it rains.

Clare Prop; Your situation as you describe it sounds actionable to me.

Thought of consulting a Lawyer?

Last legal battle I fought with them cost me a fortune, even though I won. (lease assignment that they tried to block)

Last time I went to discuss leasing issues with them face to face left me very shaken, I am a toughie but some threats are enough to keep you awake at night.

So we are at an impasse; and to me, being ignored is preferable to those threats being carried out. The only slight win is that I have been able to use this as a lever to stop them putting my rent up for a while. They can't say my lease is comparable to the lease next door when they are bone dry and I am under water.

There is no organisation that represents people like me, one man bands that are just trying to make an honest dollar and succeeding, albeit under water for most of the winter. The local Chamber of Commerce just want to talk about the Master Plan and issues that affect everyone rather than individuals.

I'm too sick of all this to bother with a David and Goliath issue. So I'll just have to put up with all the water pouring in from the car park and the lease next door.

All the fighting to preserve the bush around the airport only to have it converted into a prairie of tilt up hideousness and massive traffic jams with a stroke of Peter Garrett's pen was enough for me.

Did you take along someone (a witness) with you to this face to face meeting?

Maybe time to involve local MP. Or even one of the 'excrement stirring' TV shows masquerading as a Current Affairs show?:E

Like my late Father (Upon retirement a senior Law Clerk) said on occasion;
"Don't get mad, get even. With interest!":ooh:

Just sayin'

I'll keep my head below the parapet for now.

If they try to put my rent up that will change. I didn't take a witness the first time, learned my lesson; and have involved my local Fed MP since then but none of this will provide a drain on my crossover!

The problem is that to involve lawyers is beyond my means and they know that. Just involving an independant valuer at the last rent review was a major financial burden, I'm just a one man band. Also there is little that lawyers can do to enforce things until we get a Minister who actually gives a :mad:

Just demonstrating the reality of allowing foreign property developers to lease aviation infrastructure. Thank you Mr Keating for your :mad::mad: Airports Act.

just heard that someone else is looking at RPT into Bankstown.


Vincent were looking at it, prior to falling over in May.

Another one??

Oh good grief, until regulatory reform is accomplished, aviation in Australia is far to safe to risk wasting money in.

just heard, Bankstown to Melbourne (not MEL) RPT flights to commence next year.


Don't know which Melbourne airport, Essendon or Moorabbin.


Apparently backed by one of the big travel agency groups, who handles big corporate business who has offices at both end, not near SYD but western Sydney.

Why wouldn't you want use Essendon for such a venture with the right sized aircraft? Terminal access is a doddle for the pax, no queues, cheaper taxi fare than Tulla to/from the city, rarely any large ATC delays. Sounds ideal! Spend a few bucks providing terminal facilities and the business traveller would feel right at home. If you're not connecting to a flight departing Tulla why go there?

Had a wander around Essendon terminal lately ? The airport canopies are rusted to the point that their falling down, looks like a ghost town of yesteryear, needs plenty spent to bring her up to scratch. Good for RPT, think not.

you missed the point completely. Business men & women want to get in & out of an airport fast (who wants to spend any time at an airport ?)


Rental cars will be a lot cheaper at MEB as no outrageous airport charges on rental car companies that MEL & SYD get away with.

The small food court served by Holly's café inside Essendon Airport Terminal building is perfect for a pleasant hour of conversation. No loud mouth okker bogans and screaming kids, no loud-speaker "music", friendly and attentive staff at Holly's, air conditioning, and a perfect view of aeroplanes going hither and thither. In fact one of the best meeting places you could ask for. Greg of Gee-Bees pilot shop always ready to greet you with politeness and a smile even if you are just browsing. Love the atmosphere.:ok:

Possibly a JetGo kind of operation, small number but high volume on a baby-braer ?

If there is enough business travel demand, it sure beats the BS at the majors.

I have to go to Melbourne twice in about a months time, oddly enough the destination is out near Moorabbin, so door to door is 5 hours by RPT. Fly myself even at piston single speeds, is around 5.5-6 door to door. I will most likely do one trip RPT and one GA. Besides the obvious, the main attraction is avoiding BNE&MEL. The cost has nothing to do with it, and two up its equal or less.

A well researched and marketed plan could just work.

I don't know the BK end at all but I'd say at the EN end you could easily save 30 minutes between minimal delay in the air, less buggering around in the terminal and a shorter trip to the city. Assuming something similar was achieved going the other way you're looking an extra hour or more at the destination. Sure, the terminal needs some work but if you're providing the right service that's not so important - you're not in the terminal long enough to notice :ok:

30 mins ? & the rest. More like a hour & 1/2 or more.

Jetgo aircraft are 1kg too heavy (20K & above require security at vast expense)

or perhaps intentional misrepresentation of the CURRENT state of affairs by the Authority?

The problem with YSBK RPT is the lack of good rail access.

Bankstown railway station is a 10 minute taxi ride and the drive into town is slow and painful.

If the RPT passengers did catch the train from Bankstown they'd probably get mugged by an Islander youth gang or caught up on a Middle-Eastern drug gang drive-by-shooting.

The streets of East LA, or Detroit are nothing compared to Bankstown, especially at night.

oI'm horrified you could think such a thing.:{Queenslanders should just take a hard look at Campbell Newmans multi million dollar advertisements with a graph depicting how much debt will be paid down when they sell all our assetts. Such honesty ! Such clarity !

I've heard of time distortion/ stretching but this graph stretching is new to me.

who uses trains ?


Don't even know how to get to the train station at Sydney airport & apparently more expensive than taxis if more than 1 person.


Bankstown airport has a Thrifty car rental depot & if commercial flights were to begin there, others would follow.

@BNEA320 - I use the trains at Sydney airport all of the time. It's a great service and their are train station underneath both domestic and international terminals.

From memory, the return train fair from Domestic to Central station in the city costs $16. A taxi for the same would cost maybe $80 and take a lot longer.

Just walk out of the Domestic exit gate, down the escalator to the right and then take another escalator downstairs to the railway station. It's a really well integrated into the airport, quick, efficient and clean.

We know "Queenslanders" can't spell but the Govt is not selling the bigger assets at all. What they are doing is selling the right to lease. Like anyone, debt should be brought under control...

Most bigger airports around the world are owned by non-Govts...

taxis will come if demand. Presume that taxis at SYD, like BNE & MEL can wait around for hours at times to get a fare. Better to sit at BWU for a few minutes than at SYD for hours.

Incorrect.

I had reason to divert a Dash 8 into BK a few years ago post-curfew at SY due Wx. My company managed to get 1 taxi to the airport for 50 PAX. When asked, the taxi driver explained that drivers have security concerns with BK at night and are not prepared to take a risk.

The only way to resolve the issue was to get QF Transport to send a bus 3 hours later.

funny, we have no probs getting a taxi at YSBK for private pilots that fly in from other areas. even late at night....

I'm only speaking from first-hand experience with the taxi situation I encountered after a diversion. Things may have improved since then.

In the mid-1990s Dick (and Boyd Munro) did exactly that with AOPA, and for their troubles (and hefty personal expenditure) were roundly and loudly condemned by large slabs of the GA community. --- who believed that grovelling to the powers that be would produce better results than political action.

We have seen how effective the current AOPA policy of mass grovel has worked.

And has happens here whenever Dick suggests we should have the so very successful US airspace management system --- where the phrase "clearance not available, remain clear of controlled airspace" is unknown, we get yet another concerted bout of all the reasons why "it won't work here".

Tootle pip!!

Bankistan, Archerdishu, Essidong.

There's not much hope for them as viable airports.

Miniscule operating in stealth mode..WTF??
 

M&M has sure kept this quiet...:rolleyes: This comment from Beryl is spot on...:D: Passing strange is that the presser for this announcement was only released yesterday but apparently the Miniscule signed the Master Plan on Monday...:confused:: Approval granted for Bankstown Airport Master Plan

For those interested here is what Truss has signed off on - 2014 Preliminary Draft Master Plan

I guess the issues with the McBank & Floodplains have all been addressed..or have they??

Looks like BAL have come up with a new revenue stream.

Send a bill for a "daily charge" for aircraft that are based at Jandakot and haven't been to Bankstown for about 15 years.

:mad::mad::mad:

Clare,
Que?
Could you expand on that for me, please.

Anyone care to estimate what sort of offer would be in the ball park to buy the airport lease from BAC/ BAL?

Nulli, too much!!, what do you think a thousand acres of empty land smack dab in the centre of Sydney is worth??
Unfortunately it was ordained by a murky Machievellion way back when The leases were first let, that Bk would eventually be developed for the benefit of the shareholders.

They just had to get rid of a few pesky airplane operators first.

The minuscule is so senile now he will just sign whatever is put in front of him.

We are witnessing the end game of a conspiracy to finish General Aviation in Australia.

Stanwell, today I received an invoice from Bankstown Airport Limited for a "daily charge" whatever that is, for an aircraft that lives at Jandakot and left Bankstown 15 years ago.

Looks like they are picking callsigns at random and sending out invoices for things that are physically impossible unless this little Cherokee has superpowers and can be in two places over 3000 km apart at once.

Ah, thank you Clare.
Similar to the 'landing fees' scam, eh?
I'll pass that on to a mate who was a bit concerned.

Bankstown, secondary airports - The Future??
 

In the last two senate estimates, there have been some serious questions about Bankstown, Archerfield and the other secondary airports.

The news as most who use these airports from time to time is not good.

The next senate estimates hearing is on Tuesday [Estimates daily programs ? Parliament of Australia]

Clip on the LIVE button after 7PM to view. http://www.aph.gov.au/News_and_Events/Watch_Parliament

There is commentary on previous estimates and the effect on Bankstown in various places. These cover the situation and effect of the operator on the user.