Bankstown Airport – Desperately Sad
 

I went for a walk around Bankstown Airport this morning. What a disaster! Hangars that once had thriving businesses in them ten years ago are now closed and when I peered through the gaps in the doors I could see they were being used for storage of what looked like rubbish. The whole airport reminded me of the Soviet Union when I visited there in 1966 – part of a system that had failed!

Bankstown is the major secondary airport for the largest city in Australia – but you wouldn’t know it.

Can anyone give me the current movements at Bankstown? I understood they were over 350,000 at the peak and I’d love to know what the figures are now.

And before you all start blaming me for “User Pays” – no, that was Henry Bosch in his report before I was involved. However, I was involved in getting costs down, e.g. by removing the rescue and fire-fighting from all the secondary airports. That has probably saved over $100 million in the twenty years since then at the major secondary airports and there has not been one fatality attributed to the removal.

If you ever want me to do some more cost savings, just ask.

The figures certainly aren't great now compared to a few years back...

2014 January to July: YSBK - 137,952 - keep in mind that this is only a half year figure. The 2013 January to July figure was 127,870 so this year is a slight improvement so far.

2013 Calendar Year: YSBK - 215,802

2012 Calendar Year: YSBK - 236,030

2011 Calendar Year: YSBK - 243,126

Other info and sources can be found here:
Movements at Australian airports | Airservices

And where did the $100 million “saved” go, Dick?

The problem is that the money “saved” doesn’t make anything less expensive for the aviation industry. It just gets p*ssed up against the wall by governments, and the costs imposed on the aviation industry still go up.

Not blaming you for that outcome.

Just sayin’ that “saving” more money doesn’t help the aviation industry.

Governments don’t budget and spend money like a business. Governments budget and spend money to protect their political interests. If the aviation industry doesn’t want an ARFF at Secondary Airports and that saves governments $100 million, governments are happy to spend that on pink batts and Seasprite Helicopters.

The RFFS was about to become a separate charge for landing at the GA airports.


When I removed the service there was no separate charge- so at least I saved an increase in this particular case!

It is very sad Dick.

But when our airports were farmed out to property developers and loan shark banks to be expected.

With a rapacious regulator and what seems a government powerless to contain or control their excesses It looks like GA is finished in Australia.

People are just giving up, its all getting too hard.

Average age of engineers now in the fifties, very few young people prepared to invest their time and dollars into taking apprenticeship even if they could find someone to take them on, only people with your resources will be able to afford to fly.

I would love to be in a position to toss it in, get away from CAsA's incompetence and bully boys.

There's always Kiwiland every now and then for a flying fix. Beautiful scenery, great rule set and no CAsA, over there you can enjoy your flying and I would recommend anyone thinking of learning to fly to head there, you will enjoy the experience and save yourself a lot of money, and its safer to.

I've heard that before thorn bird, however what do property developers have to do with the demise of Bankstown?
Horton park, yes. Wallan, yes. Geelong, yes.

It is sad when they are involve when airports are the target. Last week in Sunbury on the news a family of 10 siblings had bought a property 20 years ago for $300,000 sold it to developers for over $70 million for a new suburb to be built.

The worst part is family farms that have to be sold and you can't hold onto them. Once the council decides to re-zone from rural to residential, they charge the land owners full rates based on the potential value of the property. Owners can't help but sell. This is how owners are "forced" to sell.

Almost the same at YMMB.
Years ago it was a vibrant energetic place with so much activity.
RVAC is holding a dinner on 25th of this month to celebrate its 100th anniversary. Not sure how many years left though.
Membership numbers have plummeted from the heady days.
No touring aircraft online. Just about all the aircraft are 70s vintage.
Driving past recently saw the adjacent golf course has been removed.
Was in the tower years ago supervising night circuits when someone called up to say they had suffered EFATO and landed on a fairway.
No injuries/damage. Won't be able to do that when the new factories are there. Sad really..

Unfortunately many years ago GA ceased to be regarded as an important part of infrastructure in this country. And the regulator decided it was better to work against the industry than with it.

What we see today, is the result. And I don't think anyone is going to wake up, until is too late and everything is gone.

Very sad, but that is Australia in 2014, if it can't be dug out of the ground, it's not worth worrying about.

Dick,

The cost of aviation (in ths country particularly) is absolutely insane. I'd love to hire an airplane out at BK and go for a fly - take the Mrs down Victor 1, but its simply too cost prohibitive. I'm sure that the training operators on the field are struggling.

I wonder what the end-game is? Will the State govt allow YSBK to shut up shop?

have a look in a few more hangars at bankstown..... some contain carpet recyclers, one is a nursery, one sells office chairs, another is the base of a cleaning company... and thats just on one road....

Ultra,
the scary thing is all of those mentioned have airside access.
With no security free to wander where they may.
Don't know how many aircraft parked up that hold enough jet A or avgas to make a fairly large bonfire down George street at lunchtime, about six minutes flight time away.
No such thing as public infrastructure anymore, how long before we start renting parliament house from MC Bank or the Chinese government.

This is symptomatic of modern governments which have lost sight of the concept of essential services. Things like electricity, water - and airports, are now luxury items.

Dick:

2013-2014 219,770
2012-2013 220,294
2011-2012 240,142
2010-2011 257,434

more available from the publications port of DCA/CAA/ASA/whatever the hell it's called this week.....:(

when do I get that jar of Ozzie nuts:eek:

Not exclusive to Bankstown, Dick...And here's why:

I worked the cost to do an hour of circuits at Warnervale in my RV-9 with their new costings, earlier this year. Over $600 an hour!, based on 10 circuits/hour - for an aeroplane that I own...!

Despite a submission to Council about this, the most they're willing to compromise is a daily "training" rate, for ab-initio ("training") circuits, but for you or me, we pay for every landing.

It's cheaper to fly from Warnervale to Archerfield, refuel and fly an hour of circuits there and return home than it is to do an hour at my local airstrip.

WTF? :rolleyes:

And was it once 350,000?

600 dollars an hour..for circuits.WTF??? What are these blood suckers going to do when there is no one left that can pay these extortionate rates?

Warnervale airport fees.

"For Australia Skydive landing fees and other charges for parking and refuelling went from $1795 a year to $535,000 a year."



No Cookies | dailytelegraph.com.au

This problem is not just confined to GA. The whole country is being de-industrialized on a major scale with capabilities being exported wholesale or left to wither.

We are watching high-end precision machinery being exported at 10c in the dollar. Never mind the "advanced manufacturing" that is going to save us. Most of the skills and machinery required for that will be gone before the nation wakes up.

We will be competing for foreign aid in the future to make up for the lack of FDI because it's only our positive capital account that has allowed us our currently high, but declining standard of living.

Take a look at what the "mining boom" has done to our balance of trade and current account. It's barely a blip in a long and sorry trend into the abyss.

Is it any wonder the nation can't sustain expensive aviation infrastructure?

Nice one Dick ..:ok: – the Daily Mail and US Financial press articles only add value to the cause and (as a bonus) disgrace – once again, 'The Australian' – as a CASA propaganda rag.

Never, ever quit – using your own time and money to help those to whom, the word 'experience' means little, or are capable of believing in a lesson learnt. There are not many to whom I would "dip my lid". However, good Sir; consider it 'dipped'.

Toot' a toot, toot – Dick special salute from the 'Houseboat' crew. (Ignore the farting elephant – it's a long, long story).

Yep, no bull.

$110 just for the privelige of refuelling on council land. Not counting the fuel purchased. That's extra. And this is per refuel - even if you BYO Mogas!
$15/tonne (or part thereof) per landing for regular users. $27.50 for itinerant users.
$1,650 parking fees per year.
$605 "usage fee" per year.

But when I suggested Wyong Council would not dare to introduce a "User Pays" fee structure at their 25 boat ramps, there was deafening silence. Yet as a (now former) Wyong Councli ratepayer, I don't own a boat yet have to pay for the maintenance of the boat ramps.

Bankstown Airport – Desperately Sad
 

Guess they'll get what they want in the end with the total demise of the airport. Then develop in to more housing.....yay!

It doesn't help movement figures when YSBK charge nearly $8000 pa for a Piper PA28 to park there.
Never mind that the marginal cost to provide parking is close to zero so one would think that encouraging more parking/aircraft would be great for the airports' bottom line., but no, they go the way of trying to extract their total costs + profit from a dwindling user base, which then results in less users and higher fees.
= positive feedback and less actual aviation usage.

Before the effing privatisation occurred I remember that it often required a lot of head swiveling and occasional laps of the grassed areas to find a parking spot after landing.

I don't know what the hanger-owners/renters pay and I am afraid to ask.

Can't put housing at bankstown as it is a flood plan.

Dick is right,

Bankstown is like some third rate third world airport in the back of Africa.

They are so pro active!!!!!!!!!

I keep my aircraft in a hangar at around $1000 a month. Which when you consider a charge of $62 per day outside parking courtesy of BAL is double the charge for under cover.

Then just push the aircraft outside for even 5 minutes and the Gestapo arrive.

But the best part is their collection department. The chap in charge rings after 5 days for payment, I guess with so little movements they need to chase every dollar.

When Flew thru Biggin Hill and then Cannes, the difference is like chalk and cheese. Both the English and the French are now so pro General Aviation it is funny.

BAL need to take a good hard look at themselves and start running a business it's call aviation.

BUT HELL THEY ARE PURPOSELY RUNNING IT DOWN TO THE POINT WHERE THEY CAN JUSTIFY SELLING IT OFF TO A DEVELOPER AS A BEAUT HOUSING ESTAE WITH LIGHT INDUSTRIAL ON THE SIDE.

Jumpnut,

a bit if deja vu, all them that complained about aircraft noise at Hoxton Park and celebrated its closure and sale now have a 24 seven truck depot. YAH!
Good onya truckers hammer them airbrakes!! few air horns as well.
Bk is pretty well run by Toll, eventually it'll go the same way.

Kitty,

no you really don't want to know...pity Marion street aint a taxi way, industrial off airport is way cheaper.

Dick,
one question I would like asked is, how come I can buy Jet A1 at Mascot for $1:05 a Litre, yet at BK its $185 a litre, about the same as at Bourke?? Wouldn't be retail price maintenance would it? and there I was believing that was illegal.

But for Mascots insane costs it would be cheaper to fly to Sydney to refuel for BK jet operators.

Always wondered why the big end of town with their heavy metal, given the costs of parking, restrictions on operations with slots etc, why they don't fly out of BK.....wouldn't be the fuel cost would it??

A few years back, I flew my boss to Sydney in his BBJ. Flight started in Paris, ended with stops enroute in Sydney. Costs from Paris to O/head Port Headland about half of Port Headland to Sydney. Parking at YSSY double that of Heathrow.

Needless to say he was pissed off, felt like he'd been cheated and vowed never to come to Australia again, to my knowledge he never has.

This guy would spend 30 million on half a dozen horses in the USA.

I really was embarrassed as an Australian.

Have you seen how VIP's are treated here?? They arrive in their 50 million VIP jet, and do our Customs come to the aircraft???

Not on your Nellie.

Park at the international terminal (Big Bill) walk your Passengers in the pouring rain, or stinking heat across the tarmac, dodging baggage trains etc. Clamber through the bowels of the terminal basement, to be confronted by some surely Customs bitch apparently suffering from severe PMS, because politeness aint in her vocabulary, just to get an anointing stamp in the passport.
Retrace your steps and finally restart and wend your way to the VIP terminal to blessed relief.

Dick, you've seen how the rest of the world does it, its a national disgrace!

It is interesting that some mentioned boats. It has always been a complaint of mine ever since this whole user pays thing for aviation started. They don't do it for the recreational boat user...but the do it to GA. Well, they can do it for a little while longer to GA, then there will be nothing left.

Sop's, no offence but you should keep your trap shut, you'll give them ideas...after they've killed GA they will be casting about for something else to regulate out of existence.
What else can they do with all the incompetent clowns that infect CAsA??
About all I have left to enjoy is my boat, so please keep it quiet mate.

Sorry....no more marine talk..I promise.

"Can't put housing at bankstown as it is a flood plan."

Yr right,
your right, but it didn't stop them dumping, I don't know how many cubic meters of uncertified fill ( Naughty, naughty no EPA blessing?) on a flood plain and contaminated ground to boot, ie unexploded buried ordinance, to build an industrial estate.


Careful next time your in Bunnings, the floor just might erupt beneath you.."Its called the big bang theory"

And you can't even buy a pre flight coffee from the shop on a Saturday morning anymore. (As I found out a week ago when a mate picked me up from the terminal.)

From the air, I noticed that the housing around YSBK is being redeveloped at a rapid rate. All those big blocks with run down homes. No doubt, BAL have firm plans to develop YSBK for housing or more warehouses.


Out of interest... Do Toll ever fly those Metros parked outside their warehouses?

Sops,

your a saint mate, by boat, I meant "tinny" but its my "Ship"..bout all one can afford after a lifetime in aviation. Just dreading having to face the boatman on the Stynx one day soon. Not to worry I love elephants!!

CASA
 

C*@ts Against Sustainable Aviation !

Sadly, neither the government or the public care.

The public just see GA as a rich mans toy and if you asked 100 members of the general public what they know I bet over 90 of them would answer along a very similar vein of "Little Cessna's? They crash all the time, aren't they dangerous?"

The government don't care because there is no money and no votes in it. How many active pilot licences are there right now in Australia? 60-70 thousand? Spread across the whole country? There are much larger, much crazier lobby groups that wield more influence to get noticed and 'buy' votes than anyone in aviation. And even if we did have numbers to matter, we couldn't form a cohesive bunch. The last time any two given pilots agreed on any given subject was when Orville and Wilbur chose the field in Kittyhawk, and it's been nothing but in-fighting and backstabbing ever since. FFS, no two people in aviation can even agree about when to clean a set of injectors, and we are expected to form a cohesive lobby group to get our lot improved?! HA! :ugh:

I guess though, soon, it won't matter, cos Dick was actually right. I remember BK in the 90's, there being 6 or 7 big schools, a few small ones, and NOWHERE to park, there were so many aircraft there. You could hold a football match on the area where Navair used to park now, and not hit anything. I guess that's what happens on a race to the bottom in an industry where the next guy is prepared to work for free just to get the experience and there are people willing to take them on for it. :uhoh:

Anyway, I am tired and going to bed! :\

WVA that much? Gee, they must be "crowd funding" the new airport!!!

I can't believe there are people on this forum actually calling on MORE fees on aviation????:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

We should all be saying and writing to casa, airservices, your local members,, the papers, blah, blah to ef off.

.. but we don't and we let them ream us for more... there is something fundamentally wrong not just with the guvmint but us as well. Not speaking up is agreeing with the system, just like not responding to a claim in court is acquiescing to it.

And while Dick seems to be the only one speaking up he has a chorus of naysayers behind him. What a screwed up community this is.

The truth is that WE allow the so called powers to do this. Government is for the people not the other way around. There is a fundamental misalignment in our thinking.

Like the fear mongering going on with security. 9/11 happened in the US. Seen their security around airfields?

Not in England
 

dhavillandpilot Quote:-" Both the English and the French are now so pro General Aviation it is funny"

From what I have read on this forum, Oz and the U.K. are suffering the same malaise.

Over here EASA is pulling the strings but AOPA is trying to soften the jerk. GA airfields are under threat from developers, two closed at the end of September and others are under threat. The Government is not interested and Councils see an airfield as a new suburb.
Manston Airport in Kent was sold by the council for £1, yes £1, to the owner of a public transport Company. There was a proviso that it must be kept for use as an airport. Some ten months later the airport has closed and the owner has rejected a £5 million offer from someone that wanted to continue to use Manston as an airport. The council refused permission for night freight operations.

There is nothing pro GA here in England - I do own a vintage Piper.

I'm afraid we are all in the same boat, albeit in different oceans.

When I started at bankstown in the late 70s you could not get a a lot to get into the cicurit.
You could not get a parking space. Rex and piper had new aircraft every where. Then in the mid 80s the rot set in.

Now it's dead. Hangar rates have now risen past normal commercial rates for floor space.
One person I heard of had there rates risen 600% this year. Now if you have a support shop you just can't pack up and leave. Your casa approval has to be redone for the new premises the time and cost involved is just a killer.

Some off the people running these airports must be ex Russians straight from the iron curtain. Held in a frozen condition and rolled out as airport managers.

Not been to bankstown for a long time but it saddens me to see what happened to the busiest airport in the southern airport but then again the greens would be happy.

Out and about
 

Jack Ranga Quote:- "You lot need to get out more"

I would really like to do so, it's just getting more and more expensive to do it. I'm sure that your Australian colleagues feel the same way.

Avgas in the U.K. £2.00 a litre.

How about the UNSW training school ? Is that going to be ok?

we've just heard that a foreign airline will be flying RPT services out of BWU next year, probably 3rd quarter.

Don't worry Dick - some people are doing something about it!