Windfarms
 

Today whilst driving down to Canberra just south of Goulburn the Hume Hwy forks to go via Lake George or Yass. I took the Lake George route and shortly after turning onto this road noted a number of Wind Turbines off to the West in the Yass direction. Now I've been on this road a few times and haven't seen these before. As I continued down to Lake George I couldn't help myself and found that I was looking at the 80 odd Wind Turbines that have been on the Eastern side of the lake for sometime now.

I recall whilst doing my UPPL test back in the day out of Canberra having to turn and to undertake some scud running due WX much to the annoyance of the Tiz who was then an examiner of airmen (and also failed me on that occasion not because of that but due to lack of airmanship or swearing at him because he made me go to Mills Cross or something.....all good though as I later got through..). It dawned on me that this scud running would have taken me right into the path of these things.

Thankfully they don't put these things anywhere near airfields (or do they?) as who knows what effect the turbulence (I'd imagine) would have as generated when they are in full flight.....Mind you though maybe they don't generate any turbulence but somehow after reflecting on this for a while I 'd reckon they would.

So I was just wondering has anyone else has had any experience with or got an opinion regarding these windfarms? I guess the meat missiles would and I know I'm probably opening pandora's box here but as the saying goes, "unless you ask... ?"

Stiky
:uhoh:

I reckon we should knock down all Wind Turbines , Microwave Repeater Towers , High Voltage Transmission Lines and level The Great Dividing Range so Stikybeke and I can go scud running whenever we feel like it. It's probably CASA's fault these obstacles are allowed to exist.:E

At a height of 85 metres + 55 metres for the blades if you need to be down that low scud running, it's probably a good day to be sitting on the couch watching footy! ;)

Apparently, so I have been told, the lee turbulence can be very high on windy days, so not just the risk of hitting them :sad:

thats still 460 Ft! considering lowest legal height is 500 ft. doesnt leave much room

Yes they are near airfields. Big court case happening now can't say much. Killed four people in the USA already. Can't have wake turbulence up to 10 km away from them. They just bad news. Even on still days they take current from the grid to turn the blades so they don't break.
Watch this space !!!!

You forgot to mention they make birds explode, give anybody within a 5K radius migraines, have an effect on tides and make dogs aggressive. Wake turbulence 10 K away? You blokes make it up as you go along.

Oooooooh, your friendly neighbourhood illiterate AME is deeply involved in international legal intrigue and affairs!?! :rolleyes: Do tell more Secret Squirrel...or are you waiting for a Wikipedia update? LOL!

Oh Humpty Dumpty air chair expert back. Like I said watch this space. I can say I certainly know a lot more on this subject than you will ever know.

They even affect whale migration! Shock! Horror! See FDOTM Wind Turbines: Why do they hate our way of life? | Crikey

At 10km there is no way that the vortices would not be fully mixed with the entrained air and surrounding airmass. You would not be able to distinguish wind turbine wake from normal ground turbulence. Even on a strong wind day the vortex patterns quickly mix with the surrounding air.

Wind farm approval in NSW requires routine consultation with aviation groups in the area e.g. the new wind farm near Nimmitabel S of Cooma, the project team had to consult aviation users around Cooma, even glider pilots N of Cooma. If you are low enough to be worried about the turbulence and scud, you should be at an airport or in a safe paddock, and not even be airborne!

If there is much turbulence above the normal at 500ft on a windy day it still shouldn't worry an ultralight approaching from the downwind side as they should see the wind turbines 10 to 15 minutes before they get to them.:}

Crashed due to Turbine turbulence ! At last a new excuse for piss poor piloting. Go those lawyers. :ugh:

Yr right, what subject are you an expert on?
Airfields
Big court cases
Not saying much
Killing people in the USA
Wake turbulence
Bad news
Turning blades
Or space watching?

We'll when a person ihas over 20000 fly hours and he tells us he had wake turblance from a wind turbine 10 km away I guess he was lying. Just going to say if you believe they are safe and all what you have said is true then I guess you believe in Santa tooth fairy and a whole lot of over stuff. And when it affects you like it has us then may be you would listen a little closer.
I also take it you have been interviewed and given evidence as we'll. you also know how many have been refused to be put up and how many that where told not too be installed but have. But you would know that wouldn't you.

What airfields in Australia, and how "near" are they?

I completely agree with you Bunyan. Shouldn't be flying anywhere near scud or if as a pilot, you have any say in it, (which you should have as part of some basic decision making) not even airborne in such conditions. I'm fairly sure we've all been caught out or had a close call at some stage though. For me just the 2 times that I'll never forget, once under test and the other not long after I got my UPPL and basically in the same neck of woods where I got socked in at Nimmitabel between Merimbula and Canberra and only just made it into Polo Flat. I've said before, lesson well learnt!!!!

That being said I'd hate to be in that situation and also have to deal with one of these things. Even more frightening if you're trying to land at an airfield because of some bad weather!!!

Yr Right, I'm curious now about the court case that you have mentioned. From your post I guess it's in USA and has something to do with the 4 that have been killed over there? Or is it something that's happened in Australia involving an aircraft hitting one of these things because I haven't heard of that occurring..Thanks.

Stiky
:uhoh:

10 km downwind from a wind turbine? i am assuming a windy day? arnt most, if not all wind turbines installed on the tops, or near the tops of hills and ridge lines?

can he be sure it was wake turbulence? or a rotor generated by terrain?

i have even been rolled onto my back at 85ooft on a clear sunny day with no aircraft within miles, and terrain 83oo ft below me, was it wake turb?

Court case is in aust. To this point rfs has stated that any airfield that has a wind Farm near by will not be used for any Aireral fire fighting work. We'll creamy you are the expert you find out.
There is a court case in the states with regard to the accident they had. I believe it some high profile farmers onboard. Be warned they are a danger to aviation. What you have to remember that the tip speed is approaching the speed of sound and the diameter of these things is extreme

He flew back to find out what cause it. This no dumb low time bloke we taking about. He found it was the turbine. They funnel the airstream like a straw down stream. The airflow forward of these things is near zero.

Sounds seriously scary stuff. JH is not exactly a newbie pilot either. He must have had a bee in his bonnet about it then to start a court case over it. Good on him too.

I gather you don't fly near any or live near any of them then. ;)

Btw these things are less than 30% efficient. If the wind is to low the turn into a motor and turn the blades from the grid and if it's to windy they feather them so they don't turn or turn enough as not to bend the blades.

20000 fly hours as you put it, does not preclude someone from being wrong.
"This no dumb no time bloke" ......are you joking?
So this is not your own personal experience.
Which court case had high profile farmers on board? Or did the plane convey high profile farmers?
If they had been of a slightly higher profile then would the turbulence have bothered them?
Tip speed is approaching the speed of sound....so is my Holden, just very slowly, perhaps a deep breath before typing would help you.

I second that :D

Why wouldn't you have an open mind on the turbulence issue? Have you seen the size of the effing things??

what YR RIGHT says
 

Did someone say he was a spokesperson for the nuclear power industry?

He's put himself out there as a spokesman for the engineering industry :sad:

My challenge to those who follow the likes of AM radio 'Shock Jocks' against renewable energy is simply this:


Go for a drive (or preferably a fly) up the Hunter Valley and have a good look at the wanton destruction of open cut coal mines. Then compare that to the aesthetics of a typical wind farm.


One thing that I find quite sad is that after allowing the coal lobby to do whatever they liked over decades, there still isn't a decent dual carriage highway from Newcastle to Muswellbrook.


And does anyone really believe that the operator of the Mt Thorley / Warkworth mine will ever rejuvenate the massive area of previously agricultural land, now turned into a moonscape? :{

55 metre radius
= 345 metres per revolution
normal 15 to 20 rpm
=6900 metres per min, using 20rpm

So all those DHC8 and BE20 drivers, you are all approaching the speed of sound. You jet jockeys are all breaking the sound barrier. Where are all the court cases for broken windows.

Don't see wind farm as the cause.

4 dead after small plane crashes into South Dakota wind farm in fog | syracuse.com

They both have their environmental drawbacks. I can't describe a wind farm as pretty. I wouldn't like the things anywhere near my backyard. A coal mine either. If you want to rid the environment of coal you're gunna have to make some difficult decisions. There's a small city in the US that's 98% solar (yr right probably knows all about it ;)) dunno whether you could power LA on solar but.

We certainly are lucky to have you here

There is a fairly recent announcement of a solar town/city in US that is about to commission a large (massive) tower filled with sodium that will act as a battery to provide current through the night for the whole city. Much rather have solar than wind turbines which would not be viable without significant grants and concessions.

A lot of industries get subsidies, including fossil fuel. Clean coal anyone?

New Scientist article about the sort of storage you're talking about: Giant solar farm uses molten salt to keep power coming - 23 April 2014 - New Scientist

crop pies live their life below 500'

Mind you they should know where every power line is, and anything as big as a wind generator.:uhoh:

Hmmmm, wind turbines, eh? During the last 29 years of flying I have found that they are best avoided by:
1. Studying maps and NOTAMS (that's called 'preparation'),
2. Not scud running, and
3. LOOKING OUT.
:ugh:

I know someone that made over $100m out of his wind farm .... I've never heard him complaining about them for some reason :ok:

There have been a few deaths in the USA involving the turbines and guys performing air work and ag. The main concern is not so much the turbines themselves but the towers that they put up near them to measure wind speed. These are basically long poles with bracing wires and unmarked and vertually invisible when flying along. These can be put up over night and not reported as they are within a few feet short of the maximum reporting height.

4 dead after small plane crashes into South Dakota wind farm in fog | syracuse.comIt seems to be very clear the root cause of the accident was not the Turbines. If we're not to blame the pilot then next in line is the fog .

Here's an idea for our Dear Leader, Tony (don't mention the budget ) Abbott.

As fog causes more deaths in Australia than terrorists ever have he should declare war on FOG. He could call it 'OPERATION FOGGY THINKING'

I disagree - I think they are. There are some in the mid-north of S.A. that I love watching as when we go south.
And does anyone remember the old "free lights" that used to be on farms many years ago to provide power? Same principle, but of course on a smaller scale. My father remembers sleeping near one when he was a lad. Didn't sleep much the first few nights with the noise, but after that was too damn tired to care!

DF.

http://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/6/2/696/ag

But did the wind farm cause the fog? Or is it made of the same chemical they use in contrails - got to be more effective at sea level :D

In a few areas in the UK there are antenna farms with towers up to 1000' agl. I remember one near the south coast, west of Bournemouth, if anyone wants to fact check me.

The facilities are of course marked on charts. You have to take your headphones off in the vicinity, in case arcing occurs between the ear pieces due to the intense RF field.*

Well, they do teach newbies that scud running is very dangerous. Perhaps the advice is true!



* I popped that one in for you YR RIGHT. It's fun making stuff up - I might do more of it! :p