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-   The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions-91/)
-   -   Channel 7 Sunday Night Program About VH-MDX (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/540715-channel-7-sunday-night-program-about-vh-mdx.html)

Hempy 19th Jul 2014 10:15

It's not a phenomena like the Bermuda Triangle...everyone knows its a military Secret Weapon operated from RAAF Williamtown :rolleyes:

thorn bird 19th Jul 2014 10:25

"Is it time to bring VH-MDX home?"
Are you suggesting it was kidnapped by aliens?

Centaurus 19th Jul 2014 10:30


Regardless of difficulty or cost - Is it time to bring VH-MDX home?
While some will have sympathy with your cause, believe me, most people would say it is best put to rest. Most of the aircraft that have crashed into the Barrington Tops area would have been flying in low cloud without knowing their precise position. One typical example was a Lockheed Hudson of the Herald Flying Services that disappeared for many months before the wreckage was spotted by an over-flying airliner. The DCA investigation decided the highly experienced former wartime pilot was trying to fly underneath low cloud and in poor visibility to get from Sydney to Taree and took a risk which didn't pay off.

According to one transcript the pilot of the Cessna 210 reported failure of the engine driven vacuum pump. If that was so, then within one minute the pilot would quickly lose control caused by worsening erroneous attitude information. On the other hand, if he was not an experienced IFR pilot and saw what he perceived both artificial horizons apparently failing, but which actually was loss of control due to poor instrument flying ability, then he may have mistakenly diagnosed vacuum pump failure. Even an experienced instrument rated pilot flying on limited panel in cloud (few pilots are that good) would need all his skill and attention to have to rely on the electrically powered turn coordinator in association with the magnetic compass. Throw in erroneous attitude information, turbulence and thick cloud and his chances of getting out of that alive would be zero.

There is no "Devil's Triangle" in that area. That is nothing more than a journalistic dramatic beat up. Nothing is to be gained by re-visiting the search area. Quite the opposite in fact. There would be a real risk to life and limb of those hardy and well meaning volunteers who would willingly spend their time trying to locate long since deeply hidden wreckage in impossible country.

kingRB 19th Jul 2014 15:41


Throw in erroneous attitude information, turbulence and thick cloud and his chances of getting out of that alive would be zero.
stating the obvious, we already know he / they didn't get out alive.


There is no "Devil's Triangle" in that area. That is nothing more than a journalistic dramatic beat up. Nothing is to be gained by re-visiting the search area. Quite the opposite in fact. There would be a real risk to life and limb of those hardy and well meaning volunteers who would willingly spend their time trying to locate long since deeply hidden wreckage in impossible country.
I'd argue it is indeed as relevant as a "Devils Triangle" gets for Australia. Considering the amount of aircraft that have gone down in this region and the difficulty in locating them. It's provided the terrain that has yielded the only missing aircraft on Australian mainland never to be found. I can't really think of a more fitting name for such a location.

There is much relevance to revisiting the search area. Plenty of us have done so and are continuing to. Perhaps ask the families of the missing occupants if they see there is nothing to be gained.

Yes the area is not without it's risk, but much of this can be mitigated with adequate precautions.

Quite surprised you'd take this position Centaurus. If people want to keep looking for it, really, what is the problem?

Tee Emm 20th Jul 2014 05:03


Yes the area is not without it's risk, but much of this can be mitigated with adequate precautions.

Difficult to say this as it is obviously an emotional subject to those still involved one way or another. But the fact remains 21 unfortunates are dead due to various pilots failing to take adequate precautions. That being so, where is the certainty any new searchers will mitigate the risk with adequate precautions? 33 years is a long time to be holding the candle and a line must eventually be drawn somewhere.

tyler_durden_80 20th Jul 2014 05:17

On weekends at WLM R578A-E are notam'd active, from memory they are RA2 (possibly incorrect here), and active from 0600-2200 local, up to FL125. It is Monday-Friday that the remainder are generally notam'd as active.

catseye 20th Jul 2014 10:07

R578 A-E
 
current DAh is showing them active by notam with controlling authority flt cdr 453 sqn Williamtown flight.

Thinks that means the SATCO.

catseye 20th Jul 2014 10:10

typical without putting them all in.
C850/14
R578A ACT
MAY BE DEACTIVATED AT SHORT NOTICE.
PILOT RESPONSIBILITY TO CK CURRENT STS WITH ATS.
5000FT AMSL TO FL125
FROM 07 202000 TO 07 271200
DAILY 2000/1200

Jabberwocky82 9th Mar 2023 09:00

Are there any known updates on this? Some murmurings I heard lately stated it had been found from a ground search.

tail wheel 13th Mar 2023 19:04

Test posts.

IBJoel 13th Mar 2023 19:58

test!

Creampuff 14th Mar 2023 02:38

How come the index page shows two recent posts in this thread, but I can't see them?

megan 14th Mar 2023 03:28


good old Wikipedia
Now you have me confused (not hard :p ), what's wrong with the Wiki piece?

KRviator 14th Mar 2023 04:59


Originally Posted by Creampuff (Post 11401625)
How come the index page shows two recent posts in this thread, but I can't see them?

I had the same problem. I think our Admin Overlords were testing new settings for their posts...

PiperCameron 14th Mar 2023 05:24


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 11401650)
I had the same problem. I think our Admin Overlords were testing new settings for their posts...

And here's me thinking someone might have posted something interesting.. :uhoh:

tail wheel 14th Mar 2023 06:05

Someone left the door open and a bug got into the big computer! :}

No one did anything. We are just as mystified as you why the last page and a number of posts disappeared for a couple of days.

A trick: If the last page disappears again click on the "Reply" button and you will see the missing posts below the posting window. Please don't ask how that works, I have no idea, but it does.

The Wawa Zone 7th Apr 2023 07:31


Originally Posted by Centaurus (Post 8570281)
There is no "Devil's Triangle" in that area. That is nothing more than a journalistic dramatic beat up. Nothing is to be gained by re-visiting the search area. Quite the opposite in fact. There would be a real risk to life and limb of those hardy and well meaning volunteers who would willingly spend their time trying to locate long since deeply hidden wreckage in impossible country.

That is unfortunately correct, although people should still continue ground searches because it is good headbanging fun and there is always the chance of good fortune showing you a brief glimpse of folded metal in the undergrowth.
The search area planning has, I believe, pretty much narrowed it down to a couple of 5Km x 5Km blocks, but what 25Km2 blocks they are ! I've been on a couple of ground searches, one of which the team was in / ex by winching from POLAIR helo, and the terrain and vegetation was limiting. Adjacent to these areas are very different areas there with 40degree plus slopes and double+ canopy rainforest where foot searches are impossible without technical means, and I suggest MDX would be in one of these.

Eventually the wreck and remains will be found, but I suggest it will by remote imaging technology, probably military, that will sniff it out of the years of vegetation growth rather than foot searches.

The same applies to the far more forgotten A34-47, missing out the back of Warragamba Dam less than 50Nm from YSSY with two RAAF and three USMC on board. https://www.ozatwar.com/ozcrashes/nsw178.htm This one has a very linear search area under what was probably a big birdstrike that bowled them middle stump on the first ball.
One of these days I'm going to walk/rappel/climb a compass bearing right through the middle of these search areas and who knows !





KRviator 27th Apr 2023 09:16


Originally Posted by The Wawa Zone (Post 11416137)
That is unfortunately correct, although people should still continue ground searches because it is good headbanging fun and there is always the chance of good fortune showing you a brief glimpse of folded metal in the undergrowth.
The search area planning has, I believe, pretty much narrowed it down to a couple of 5Km x 5Km blocks, but what 25Km2 blocks they are ! I've been on a couple of ground searches, one of which the team was in / ex by winching from POLAIR helo, and the terrain and vegetation was limiting. Adjacent to these areas are very different areas there with 40degree plus slopes and double+ canopy rainforest where foot searches are impossible without technical means, and I suggest MDX would be in one of these.

Can I infer from the last sentence that even with a (somewhat) low-level survey aircraft & 4K+ cameras, visual penetration of the canopy to ground level wouldn't' be possible? Was thinking those 25km2 areas could be covered fairly quickly with a GoPro strapped to a wing tiedown, even at just 100kts and 100m run spacing.

The Wawa Zone 26th May 2023 09:48

KR, sorry about the delay, I need to keep up my 0.01 posts per day average.
Yes, it's mostly a solid tree canopy with underbrush that would be higher than any wreckage, which by now would be weathered and very indistinct. Also there are plenty of thicker double canopy areas.
Unless someone gets lucky, and it's worth trying, this thing will be found by non-visible spectrum electronic imaging and the consequent ground search of likely targets will walk onto some barely recognisable C210 bits in the undergrowth.
Or, some lucky bushwalkers will notice something sticking out of a creek next week.


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