Did Barrier get their AOC back?
 

Couple of BA aircraft moving around in Darwin last week and a couple of boys walking around outside the office. Did they have some success in the end with CASA and/or the tribunal? Their website is still up offering services.

Haven't seen anything on here about it though....

Their AOC was cancelled, but that probably can't stop them flying their fleet privately? Thought I saw some movement in Cairns the other day too...

Been doing quite a few CAirns, Gove,Darwin runs

falconx, so they are operating again or were they just bringing some planes home?

JFC out of ypjt is looking at trying to get them up and running again Owner & CP were up there last week. CP did bring back a 402 for DE.

CAO 82.1 says that somewhere under "Borrowed Certificates"

I think a 310 is currently cross hired by a private operator out of DN.

No. The AOC remains deep within the bowels of CAsA's giant shredder. The AOC is now part of history. The day the AOC was cancelled is the day Barrier died. Sorry lads.

From CAO 82.1

Does anyone really think that CASA is going to give written approval.

I am afraid that oleo is correct.

The Darwin office might give approval. I know those blokes disagree with the decision to cancel the AOC in the first place. They had a really good relationship with BA.

Mind you, I think it might be like raising the dead. Don't know how they are able to continue right now.

What a bastardised system it is, if one office can take away an AOC, and another office OF THE SAME AGENCY has the power to restore it. Seriously, folks, that's just :mad:....

On the other hand, I hear our good friends are currently in Broome.

Kunners, Darwin, now Broome - is Jandakot, Gero, Alice or Kal next?

You’ve misunderstood the discussion. It’s not about one office giving back an AOC taken from an operator by another office.

It’s about an operator, who doesn’t have an AOC, conducting operations under the authority of someone else’s AOC. That someone else has to get approval from CASA to do that, and takes on responsibility for the lot. Complicated and risky, for obvious reasons...

My mistake, Creampuff.

The post above by Curiousflyer suggests, to me, that Darwin CASA are rumoured to be looking at re-storing BA's AOC - not how BA can operate under another AOC.

CAsA has always been a divided entity. What you will find is their are some CAsA employees in DRW and possibly CNS who liked BA and found them easy enough to get along with, for better terms. Then you will have the other CAsA people who thought BA was pooh an wanted them assigned to the history pages.
In a situation such as this it is easy to find out CAsA's motives if you know all the players involved and their extensive histories.

As with any game of smoke n mirrors, things are not always what they appear to be.

And it is getting worse:ugh:

Could other companies simply cross hire BA aircraft?

Operating under JFC's AOC at the moment, great to see they've been thrown a bit of a lifeline by the looks, and JB will look after them, maybe in more ways than one ;)

The owner of said C402 belongs to a LAME out of YPJT - he cross hires them out all over Oz (Broome, Jandakot and Cairns). So with no hours being put on it, it makes sense to cross-hire it out to another compnay.

Several years ago JFC did cross hire out one of DE's C402s, but that friendship fell apart when it came time to pay the bills.

I would doubt CASA will allow JFC to conduct operations in QLD under the JFC AOC. But there isn't anything stopping JFC to buy Barrier.

CMN :E

Divided safety entities with short term, self absorbed, numpties at the top create 3 categories of employees and it is akin to a war situation.

1. Collaborators- those who believe that the new regime is here to stay and see a personal benefit in collaborating. These are the most dangerous and devious. It is the 'me' crowd.
2. The Occupied- those who are just trying to survive the current regime and hope for a return to normalcy.
3. The Resistance - those who are still fighting for what is right. They may, on the surface, resemble collaborators or the occupied, but are working behind the scenes. They need to be clever and keep their heads down.

Overt Resistance fighters are also known as terrorists by the incumbents. They don't last long. Internal mechanisms, designed to protect the organisation, like Codes of Conduct, Values, are unleashed to neuter and marginalise these people.

Max1
there is another group, those that accept the change is here and working with industry to ensure we get heard.

If JFC cannot operate in QLD under their own AOC, why would they buy Barrier, they don't have an AOC to operate under.

I think you'll find CASA are currently allowing Barrier to operate under the JFC AOC and that the CP will be up in Darwin and Cairns over the next couple of weeks getting the guys all checked and good to go.

Borrowed AOC or operating as a division of.....
 

JFC operating Barrier's fleet from Barrier's premises under a new name..

Wrightsair at William Creek advertise on their website as

Since when did an AOC become State or region specific.

It does not matter where an AOC is based or in which region their AOC is administered by their friendly FOI. An AOC Holder can operate within Australia. I cannot recall seeing an AOC restricted to a specific area within Australia.

From a search of CASA AOC data base neither Wrightsair nor Wrightsair Pty Ltd appear to have a current AOC.

From reading the Wrightsair web site I would conclude that Wrightair is a "Scenic Flight Specialist" and that it is a division of Freycinet Air.

However a search of business names does not bring any results for Freycinet Air. But there is a company in the name of Freycinet Air Pty Ltd which is the holder of an AOC VT559856.

On the Freycinet Air there is a link to Wrightsair.

Does the Freycinet Air Pty Ltd AOC show the trading names of Wrightsair and Freycinet Air?

So who is the CP of Freycinet Air Pty Ltd and is he/she based in William Creek or Coles Bay in Tasmania?

Freycinet Air (on their website) advertise only have 172s available for charter.

Wrightsair (on their website) advertise 172s, 182s, Airvans, 207s, 210s and an twin engine Aerostar.

Good luck to them...

I think Wrightsair operate under the 'Opal Air' AOC. I could be wrong however.

OPAL AIR is the trading name of LA & AM Mathews Pty Ltd that was formerly Opal Air Pty Ltd.

AOCs and...
 

"Since when did an AOC become State or region specific " 601

It happens when some CASA bum thinks it might suit his purpose. Its on the CASA logo,"Any old bull**** will do !"

Had this issue twice....1. You need an INTRAstate licence to do jobs outside QLD. ? Que ? Non passenger carrying op. Transport Qld said Really.. are you an airline? And we had a good laugh.

2 When operating in WA that was deemed to be too far away for the CP, AOC QLD...said CP based in NT.. to monitor the op.
Funny that,,competitor company AOC and CP in WA had no prob operating anywhere in OZ. Mmmmmm.
Another CASA trait..Inconsistency. Different strokes for different folks.
Where do they get these ignorant "make-it-up" merchants from.? :mad:
Dont ask and I wont say. :mad:

This is getting interesting, none of us seem to be able to work out who operates under who's AOC. From where I sit it doesn't appear casa knows either

confused....
 

TWO other things that CASA is confused about too....
AR$E--- ELBOW.:eek:
:mad:

First post :) The other night we overheard a barrier 172 heading into cairns trying to conduct various approaches. However, we were not quite as busy as this person seemed to be. I only picked up little of what was going on (or rather not happening). We did think to ourselves here we go again. I used to hear the plane doing scenics out of cairns so maybe they're doing training in cairns again. The only thing worse than ****y equitpment is strugglers. Quite surprised the instructor did not take over.

Dirty Dash

DD looks like your a bit of a struggler also. Seems to have been a struggle to put up a decent first post. You can do better than that!

Oh! excuse me your great magnificence.:rolleyes:

I believe they are up and running again this week - borrowed AOC I suppose (Jandakot Flight Centre) - so ops normal as they work their way back under the stewardship of DK and the supervision of an organisation in Perth.

I assume that CASA is getting the outcome they are after, as they must have approved Barrier to operate with JFC in writing. The concept of the borrowed AOC seems to be becoming more and more prevalent (ie AV8 and QAS in Darwin, Barrier and JFC in Cairns/Darwin - Torres and Gove to come? - just to list two).

Just not sure what fewer AOCs but same number of operators is supposed to achieve, unless it is a way to keep industry alive with the smaller operators not having to work their way through the roll out of all the new CASRs by being "grandfathered" by some larger companies, but this seems contrary to the intention...

Borrowing an AOC? If any operation is not good enough to operate under its own AOC, how does 'borrowing' someone else's AOC change things?

Operating under someone else's AOC still did not seem to help AV8 (if it really has closed). What is the point? Shifting responsibilities of the operator or the regulator?

Doesn't matter who's AOC you're operating under if you run out of money.
Av8, DirectAir, Ansett...

There you go..
See CAsA...knock us down...and another will rise up
Make peace with the industry..you cant win!!

How thing’s have changed….NOT!
 

Some quotes from a Paul Phelan article called “A skilfully mismanaged stuffup” (my bold).

“Most of the documentation of these events would never have surfaced, had the affected operator not dug its heels in and fought for their release. Uzu Air’s friends, as well as many of its commercial rivals, were united in their belief that these events represented an ongoing threat to the orderly conduct of aviation, and ultimately a negative impact on air safety. They also observed that CASA had developed a tactic to subvert the Administrative Appeals Tribunal (AAT) process, by cynically sheltering behind Section 9A of the Civil Aviation Act. That belief has been strengthened many times since the Uzu Air debacle.”

“Jan 20 99: Uzu filed a notice of application for review of the CASA decision to suspend its AOC, claiming that the Authority had acted ultra vires (outside its legislated authority); breached rules of procedural fairness and natural justice; failed to provide adequate reasons for the decision; misapplied administrative principles, and ‘failed to correctly interpret and apply the law.’ ”

Sounds oh so familiar, read it and weep!:{

Sounds oh so familiar, right or wrong operators/pilots deserve 'due process' and 'natural justice'. However FF still believe they're above the 'rule of law' and until industry unites to say enough is enough the longer the strangulation of a once vibrant industry will continue!:yuk::yuk::ugh:


ps Noticed BASI weren't afraid to call FF out back then for telling/insinuating untruths about a pending prelim report...sheesh FFS these days we've got ATSBeaker sitting on the lap of Fort Fumble..'God help us!'

Can I get an Amen!

Posted by Onslope on the GA meeting thread. Food for Barrier thought - maybe.