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-   -   Did Barrier get their AOC back? (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/512232-did-barrier-get-their-aoc-back.html)

curiousflyer 10th Apr 2013 07:52

Did Barrier get their AOC back?
 
Couple of BA aircraft moving around in Darwin last week and a couple of boys walking around outside the office. Did they have some success in the end with CASA and/or the tribunal? Their website is still up offering services.

Haven't seen anything on here about it though....

717tech 10th Apr 2013 09:05

Their AOC was cancelled, but that probably can't stop them flying their fleet privately? Thought I saw some movement in Cairns the other day too...

falconx 10th Apr 2013 09:13

Been doing quite a few CAirns, Gove,Darwin runs

curiousflyer 10th Apr 2013 09:23

falconx, so they are operating again or were they just bringing some planes home?

RR69 10th Apr 2013 09:34

JFC out of ypjt is looking at trying to get them up and running again Owner & CP were up there last week. CP did bring back a 402 for DE.

Horatio Leafblower 10th Apr 2013 11:06

CAO 82.1 says that somewhere under "Borrowed Certificates"

dibloc 10th Apr 2013 11:24

I think a 310 is currently cross hired by a private operator out of DN.

my oleo is extended 10th Apr 2013 12:36

No. The AOC remains deep within the bowels of CAsA's giant shredder. The AOC is now part of history. The day the AOC was cancelled is the day Barrier died. Sorry lads.

601 10th Apr 2013 22:45


CAO 82.1 says that somewhere under "Borrowed Certificates"
From CAO 82.1


3 Conditions relating to ―borrowed‖ certificates
3.1 Each certificate authorising charter or regular public transport operations is subject to the condition that its holder (“the AOC holder”) must not, without the prior written approval of CASA, enter into an arrangement with a person whose certificate is suspended or cancelled (“the other person”) under which the AOC holder agrees:
(a) to use, in any operation covered by the AOC holder’s certificate, any
aircraft that the other person was authorised to operate under the
certificate that is suspended or cancelled; or
(b) to use, in connection with any operation covered by the AOC holder’s
certificate, any person employed or engaged by, or otherwise working
for, the other person in connection with any operation covered by the
certificate that is suspended or cancelled; or
(c) to conduct any operation, or any part of an operation, that the other
person intended to conduct under the certificate that is suspended or
cancelled.
Does anyone really think that CASA is going to give written approval.

I am afraid that oleo is correct.

curiousflyer 10th Apr 2013 23:41

The Darwin office might give approval. I know those blokes disagree with the decision to cancel the AOC in the first place. They had a really good relationship with BA.

Mind you, I think it might be like raising the dead. Don't know how they are able to continue right now.

outnabout 11th Apr 2013 01:16

What a bastardised system it is, if one office can take away an AOC, and another office OF THE SAME AGENCY has the power to restore it. Seriously, folks, that's just :mad:....

On the other hand, I hear our good friends are currently in Broome.

Kunners, Darwin, now Broome - is Jandakot, Gero, Alice or Kal next?

Creampuff 11th Apr 2013 03:01

You’ve misunderstood the discussion. It’s not about one office giving back an AOC taken from an operator by another office.

It’s about an operator, who doesn’t have an AOC, conducting operations under the authority of someone else’s AOC. That someone else has to get approval from CASA to do that, and takes on responsibility for the lot. Complicated and risky, for obvious reasons...

outnabout 11th Apr 2013 04:24

My mistake, Creampuff.

The post above by Curiousflyer suggests, to me, that Darwin CASA are rumoured to be looking at re-storing BA's AOC - not how BA can operate under another AOC.

my oleo is extended 11th Apr 2013 04:34

CAsA has always been a divided entity. What you will find is their are some CAsA employees in DRW and possibly CNS who liked BA and found them easy enough to get along with, for better terms. Then you will have the other CAsA people who thought BA was pooh an wanted them assigned to the history pages.
In a situation such as this it is easy to find out CAsA's motives if you know all the players involved and their extensive histories.

As with any game of smoke n mirrors, things are not always what they appear to be.

601 11th Apr 2013 06:17


CAsA has always been a divided entity.
And it is getting worse:ugh:

717tech 11th Apr 2013 07:39

Could other companies simply cross hire BA aircraft?

RR69 12th Apr 2013 04:23

Operating under JFC's AOC at the moment, great to see they've been thrown a bit of a lifeline by the looks, and JB will look after them, maybe in more ways than one ;)

ContactMeNow 12th Apr 2013 04:33


JFC out of ypjt is looking at trying to get them up and running again Owner & CP were up there last week. CP did bring back a 402 for DE.
The owner of said C402 belongs to a LAME out of YPJT - he cross hires them out all over Oz (Broome, Jandakot and Cairns). So with no hours being put on it, it makes sense to cross-hire it out to another compnay.

Several years ago JFC did cross hire out one of DE's C402s, but that friendship fell apart when it came time to pay the bills.

I would doubt CASA will allow JFC to conduct operations in QLD under the JFC AOC. But there isn't anything stopping JFC to buy Barrier.

CMN :E

max1 12th Apr 2013 07:26

Divided safety entities with short term, self absorbed, numpties at the top create 3 categories of employees and it is akin to a war situation.

1. Collaborators- those who believe that the new regime is here to stay and see a personal benefit in collaborating. These are the most dangerous and devious. It is the 'me' crowd.
2. The Occupied- those who are just trying to survive the current regime and hope for a return to normalcy.
3. The Resistance - those who are still fighting for what is right. They may, on the surface, resemble collaborators or the occupied, but are working behind the scenes. They need to be clever and keep their heads down.

Overt Resistance fighters are also known as terrorists by the incumbents. They don't last long. Internal mechanisms, designed to protect the organisation, like Codes of Conduct, Values, are unleashed to neuter and marginalise these people.

owen meaney 12th Apr 2013 09:07

Max1
there is another group, those that accept the change is here and working with industry to ensure we get heard.


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