Family building own airport in QLD
 

Why not!

http://www.news.com.au/travel/australia/high-flying-family-build-own-airport-in-toowoomba/story-e6frfq89-1226594237298


DYNASTY: Joe, Henry, Neil, John and Denis Wagner on the runway site. Pic: David Martinelli
ONE of Queensland's wealthiest families has come up with a dramatic solution to Brisbane Airport's woes - they are building their own airport.
The Toowoomba-based Wagners - who own a construction, infrastructure and engineering empire - have started work on the $100 million-plus Wellcamp Airport on the inland city's western outskirts.

Brisbane to lose millions over runway stoush
The facility, with a 2.87km runway capable of taking jets up to Boeing 747s, will be in use by the second half of next year and is expected to handle 500,000 passengers a year by 2019.

"It is bold," John Wagner said. "This will be a total game-changer for Toowoomba and our region."

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The site of the new Toowoomba airport. Pic: David Martinelli
It was designed primarily as a gateway for fly-in fly-out workers and charter services to and from the booming mining and gas regions of the Surat, Galilee and Bowen Basins, but the Wagners also want regular scheduled passenger services.

"We've had discussions with airlines," Mr Wagner said. "Because no-one has built an airport like this, a lot of people were sceptical early on.

"But the tide has turned and there is a lot of interest now they can see it's a reality."

Mr Wagner says that as the largest inland city in Australia after Canberra, Toowoomba will be an attractive destination for operators.

And he believes Wellcamp Airport will be a viable alternative to Brisbane Airport which is struggling to fund a new parallel runway project.


View from what will be the centre of the 3km long runway being built by the Wagner Family. Pic: David Martinelli
"We don't know how the whole Brisbane Airport situation will play out," Mr Wagner said. "At best, their new runway will not be ready until 2020, or 2022 more likely."

The Wagners were No.11 on The Sunday Mail Queensland's Top 150 Rich List last year with estimated fortune of $613 million.

Do they want to build one in Sydney too? ;)

"hope they have done their homework on weather, prevailing winds & terrain clearance for instrument approaches & takeoff splays"

Your a genius mate. It's a good job you thought of that!:ok:

Homework? You mean like the people that built TWB right on the edge of the escarpment? Move only a few nm west and the elevation reduces a bit and the topography is generally flatter with a beneficial effect on local weather.

http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...a-airport.html


Wagners been around Toowoomba and aviation fer a while now. Probably got a little experience of the place by now..:cool:





.

If you really think that in this day and age anybody builds an IFR airport (in the western world) capable of handling 747's without considering ALL of those things very carefully you are of very simple mind..:D
I am actually not very smart at all but you are making me feel like a genius.

The Americans got over than problem with the B52's by designing an undercarriage that turned to allow a crabbed landing of up to 20 degrees. Clever :ok:

2800m runway.........isnt that a wee bit on the short side for heavy Boeing/Airbus international ops? Would have thought 3500m or more was desireable. Surely they can't just be aiming for domestic ops.

What ever the case, I do applaud someone with big enough coconuts to say "up yours" and decide to build something. Lets back this guy, support him. We need more like him.

Has anyone noticed 60s black and white films from the US on bulding bridges, roads, factories.....the word "progress" comes up all the time, you never seem to hear it these days.

.............'nom' there's plenty of progress, just look at the constant car park & retail outlet construction going on around every major drome in Aus, Their on top of it there where they know they can make $$$$. Rwy'ss & infrastructure just add huge costs for even more delays. Remember build a wider fwy to 'park' more cars on, Melb Syd are experts at that..... same deal with planes more rwy's means more congestion, no answer we have painted ourselves into a corner from which we will never be able to get out of!

I hope the Toowoomba project is a great success if their smart enuf they can sit back & watch the A/C holding for Brissy & offer a relief option at a Ldg fee that will be cheaper than wasting gas:ok:

Wmk2

All they need to do now is build a high speed rail link to the Brisbane CBD!

Is the late 80's 'this day and age?'
Um.. no. The late 80's was back in the late 80's.
However.. Humour me. Are you suggesting that you know of a major IFR airport built to accommodate 747 size aircraft where nobody thought to consider the weather, the prevailing wind and the terrain clearance for instrument approaches and takeoff splays until after the airport was built?

CASA,OTS,AA,Customs,Immigration and a myriad of others
 

will be creaming their trousers over this. An army of bureaucrats will need to be assembled and this will guarantee them work for many, many years.
The Wagners are about to learn what it is to be made to jump through hoops. As we speak, rainforests are being cleared in the Amazon to provide paper for this exercise. I wish 'em luck.

It's taken a long time but it looks like Avalon has achieved international status or will do shortly, so it's not impossible.

Wagners are a great dynasty, smart and if they r going to build an airport then they will build a great airport!

To those having a go at Oakape, and smugly commenting on the brilliance of this project...

would you believe they are planning to build it inside extant military airspace that extends to the ground and that they apparently have no plan for getting access to that airspace other than demanding it? Or that their airspace plan is to get "CASA, OTS, AA, Customs and Immigration" to work it out??

Because that's how this 'great dynasty' is going about business.

EMERGOV. And why should they not be allowed to build inside the airspace on their own land? The cheek of them to think that the Defence Force might actually think it is a good idea and work with the Wagner's. For goodness sake Oakey operates helicopters not 200 F18's. I feel compelled to say something else to you but I am not going to fall into the trap. Perhaps I should ask you nicely to try and see the positive aspects of this proposal.

I for one am watching this process with interest as I fail to see how it cannot work if all the regulators and defence etc get with the programme.

Groggy

Groggie,

There are three kinds of people in this world.

1. Those that make stuff happen
2. Those that watch things happen
3. And those that wondered what the F:mad: happened

Having done business with Henry and Denis in the past, I can see they not mucking around. They never do. And as you will well know, they know a bit about planes. ;)

Grogmonster; they can and will build whatever they want.

I see you share the majority opinion that Defence doesn't really need the resources they have - presumably because training pilots for the defence of Australia is not as important as a private company making money. If I wanted to build a lemonade stand I wouldn't do it in your front yard and then insist you open the gate for each of my customers.

Wagners will make this project happen, and good on them - but they will leverage off your tax dollars through decreased Defence capability to make it work.

Oakape: You're right. I was being immature. I apologise for any hurt feelings however I just can't get past how stupid and naive your initial and subsequent posts have been.

Emergov: You've come to the right place. I think you and Oakape are going to get along just fine.

Good on 'em! At least someone is doing something about that disaster area at Brisbane airport and surrounds. Let's hope they don't use the same mob for the roads and car parks or Airservices for ATC. Oh sorry forgot, there's a monopoly on the highly efficient, cost effective latter of course.:ok:

"At least someone is doing something about that disaster area at Brisbane airport and surrounds. Let's hope they don't use the same mob for the roads and car parks"

Must be the same people they use at Sydney and Melbourne ? :O

I think we are seeing the start of something that will replicate itslef all over Australia.

Contrary to received wisdom, not all brillance and money must necessarily flow from Canberra, Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne and Perth.

Technologies now facilitate decentralisation. "The Bush" is not short of money and ideas either.

The benfits of doing it yourself include the ability to tell Canberra or Spring Street to go **** themselves.

To the posters who say "great this is going to fic Brisbanes problems and we need a high speed rail link" I say, really? Think the Wagners did this to fix Brisbanes problems? It may be that they intend to bypass Brisbane entirely.

Similar stuff is going on in Victoria. Regions are asking for at least $4.4 bn in infrastructure according to reports - and if the regions keep getting the short end of the stik when it comes to infrastructure they will start being creative exactly like the Wagners.

The capital cities are a mess - stuck in gridlock and smarter people are getting out.

CASA would be "courageaous" not to support and facilitate this development.

emergov

I think you forget that the taxes paid by people DOING stuff is where the priority lies. YBOK should be sold to Wagners for a cheap price and they expand it into a decent airport.

The Army base should be relocated somewhere else, where some employment and growth would be appreciated.

Solves two things at once!

And before you get started, I am 100% about looking after the ADF, in my opinion they are under resourced. I was and should have joined in 85, for some reason I did engineering instead. Fortunately engineering has done well for me and I now pay several times the average wage in taxes each year, and I am annoyed more of it does not go to the ADF. Ohh and Jnr Jaba is part the way there, so I am not about harming the ADF at gain of private industry.

The regions might be asking for 4.4Bn but whether they get it is
a different matter entirely.

Look at Tulla - how many years has it been since a rail link
was first looked at ? And why hasn't a link been built ?
Not sure how true it is but I gather half the reason is the airport
doesn't want a rail link because car parking fees are so lucrative.

Jabbawocky,

I appreciate your position, and in fact I think the Wagner's are on to a good concept here, he certainly has the support of the community, which is convinced it needs a new airport.

But I'm told hundreds of million dollars have been spent on Oakey over the years and that Oakey airspace is unique in Australia - optimised for helo training. We are now cheerfully suggesting government spends that money again because a private company bought some land 10km away from the base and might pay some taxes on future profit.

Good luck to Wagner's, but if CASA kills their proposal, perhaps we could blame a lack of aeronautical chart reading skill rather than blaming Defence for owning an airfield since 1942 and operating the airspace around it for decades.

Yes - Brisbane is one example. What combination does Brisbane have during the worst weather for its location.

Rain, low cloud and SE wind.

Sure the majority of wind is NE/SW. But this occurs mainly during benign weather.

Which way is the main runway aligned.

NE/SW

It is fun breaking out at mimina and looking out of the the other side of the cockpit for the runway.

But when it was built by a Department not versed in aviation, you get what you pay for.

As for Okay, the Army took over a civilian airport and moved everyone else out. Maybe they could have another move.

Speaking of Brisbane: whatever happened to that private GA airport project to compete with / replace Archerfield that was in the news a year or so ago?

bas

Lockyer Valley Airport (see ad on P38 of this month's Aviation Trader)... again another airport that infringes military airspace.

As for Wellcamp the Wagner's need to be commended for their vision and balls to build this. Sure their grandkids might make some money, but the real winner will be the Toowoomba City and surrounding people/businesses that now get a decent airport.

As for Oakey, they can quite easily co-exist and share the small amount of their airspace that Wellcamp needs.

This morning on Sunrise they showed a family member standing in front of a lot of construction equipment. It looked to be full steam ahead.

finalyl the first piece of new infrastructure the country has seen thats actually needed! :ok:

Yes your right.. excellent example. They just built Brisbane airport and when they finished the project they were kicking themselves for not having thought about the wind and the weather first. They must have just completely forgotten about those things. Or maybe they were just inexperienced with airport building and no clever people (like you or Oakape) realised what they were doing until it was too late.

601:

Err, Oakey was built for the RAAF in 1943, initially as a home for 6AD.

I dont get what the big deal is....YBOK can keep their airspace. It is only restricted by name not nature.

I fly through there quite a lot, when active and when not.

emergov......its just not an issue.

Canberra will have its work cut out ensuring this decentralisation thing doesn't get out of hand. It's dangerous stuff, you know!

It's one thing to plan through it on an IFR plan, quite another to need clearance any time you want to do a few circuits. Plus all RA-Aus pilots are not welcome as active restricted areas are to be treated as class C...

Not knowing the location, I can't tell, but of it is at the edge and doesn't infringe IFR approach paths, then I imagine they might be open to doing the same as we have here at Gawler, I nice cut-out with enough altitude to get out VFR without clearance.

Bas it (threshold of Wellcamp Rwy 13) will be about 9 nm bearing 160 from Oakey, and 6 nm west of TWB!

What about the good ole USA? Many towns / cities have numerous airports in very close poximity. What Emergov doesnt get is no one is asking Oakey to shut down and move. All it will take is some planning for turbines and jets (high altitude) to approach over rotary wing (low alt) aircraft. Chuck in weekends and public holidays and it may only be an issue for a very short time each week and when the wind is blowing the wrong way.

Groggie

So after the 747 load of tourists exit the terminal, where do they go? Oh that's right, they wait for the line of buses to take them on the long trip to anywhere else. Or how about the FIFO guy who has to drive to/from TWB or catch the bus before/after catching his flight. Are they hoping they'll all live in Toowoomba instead? Can't see it working. Avalon is different. It's between Geelong and Melbourne, freeway & reasonable public transport in either direction, and is effectively suburban. And still only Jetstar go there. Sure this may capture some FIFO traffic, but Toowoomba is not a realistic alternative to Brisbane. Otherwise everyone would just be using the Gold or Sunny Coast airports now.

I think you are missing the point Traffic

Firstly Toowoomba is a city of over 130,000 people and the second largest inland city in Australia, that has outgrown its tiny airport (which is now surrounded by houses).

A decent airport will attract increased services to Sydney and eventually elsewhere.

In the longer term, like 25+ years, which is where the Wagners are looking there is a real possibility of freighters from Asia.

The planned new airport just happens to be adjacent to the proposed Toowoomba bypass, and once it and the alternate range crossing are built Wellcamp will be closer to Brisbane's western suburbs than the Gold Coast and similar in transit times than Brisbane Airport.

Wellcamp over time could also be a viable alternate for Ipswich.

Keep in mind a lot of agricultural produce is grown (or can be grown) in the area for high value export, including quite a deal for air freight, so as Brisbane continues to grow, particularly in the western and south western areas, Wellcamp will definitely be a viable alternative, particularly if there are cost advantages for distribution and warehousing due lower costs than in Brisbane, plus the prospects for agricultural/horticultural airfreight backloads.

Likewise in the 25 year timeframe the Melbourne - Brisbane inland rail line could well be a reality. http://www.nationbuildingprogram.gov...nd_Railway.pdf This project is far more than a pie in the sky idea. Take a look at the map in the link, it runs right past Wellcamp.

The Wagners are not looking 5 or even 10 years out. These guys are looking past their next generation. Very smart guys!

Do not knock Wagners. They are a local company with international reach. If ever Queensland is going to grow away from the SE corner then infrastructure must be built in this region. Agriculture is but one industry. If the greenies are put in check then the basic ingredient for development....abundant cheap power and water....if you build it, they will come!