this is interesting
funny thing is, my licence was issued in MAY 92, and apparently should be a plastic card..
yet it is an "old book" style marked 'Perpetual'.:sad:

Hey guys,
the answer is, get a Photo of you, put it in an envelope with nothing else, get someone to sign a stat dec that this is a photo of you..no names no pack drill..that they observed you post it to CAsA and they observed you mailing it.
Problem solved, a few thousand Photo's turn up in CAsA's mailbag let them sort out who they are of. You've complied!if there are a few thousand pilots left in OZ these days.

Only if you want to set foot outside the aircraft. I'm guessing that a refueller or friend with an ASIC can escort you off and back to the airside area like any passenger.

But what would I know.

No, I don't feel like testing the theory.

Never help an AVID, only an ASIC. Funnily enough, my CPL application was knocked back years ago as CASA had no record of me holding an ASIC (Mine was issued by another company). I had to provide a copy of my company issued ASIC so they could process my application... system works beautifully!

November would be roughly 9.5 years since the avid's were introduced. I suggest we all do Movember so CASA's data would show all Aussie pilots having dirty mo's. Will we have to fork out $30 for a license reprint?

garrya100,
Well blimey crikey, stone the crows, whoda' thunk it??
I am truly indebted to your erudite and in-depth knowledge of the subject.

All those years I sat on a DOTARS advisory body, and I need you to explain the system to me --- NOT.

Frank A's later post is quite interesting, he actually has it right, in contrast to your assertions. As Frank correctly points out, you can operated without an ASIC cards in a security controlled area (note, I did not say airport) with an escort.

Or, do you really think every pilot on an area that is security controlled has an Australian ASIC --- at an international airport ---- all the foreign crews??

I chose my words carefully --- as an Australian pilot you can fly with an AVID or an ASIC card, but you can fly without an ASIC card, and there are plenty of places --- including areas of some airports outside the security controlled areas, where you can operate without an ASIC card. Not all airport operators declare the whole airport, where a security plan is required, as a security controlled area.

You need to read, inwardly digest and develop an understanding of all the rules, before you start making bland assertions.

Now, back to the thread. So far as a number of people have been able to determine, the quoted section of CASR 61 seems to stand alone.
By whom, did you get it in writing, with details of the head of power, what makes you think it was somebody who actually knew the answer??

I haven't yet read the bit in Part 61 that says we all have to get new licenses with a pic. on them ---- as Ms Pauline Hanson would say --- please explain.

I certainly have my old book license with a pic. on the back page, I think I looked quite hansom about 40 years ago.

And I would welcome a return to a credit card license,(like my FAA or NZ one) as we had for many years, the Toller era CASA "policy" that such a license was not "ICAO Compliant", and we had to have a bleeding great book, which just happened to be the size of a UK license,( I suppose I could say that my UK and Australian licenses look "matched" in a pocket in my flight bag) was a load of self-serving rubbish.

Tootle pip!!

PS: Anybody want to claim the US or NZ licenses are not ICAO compliant --- please inform ICAO, I am certain they will be glad of your help, and will immediately ground all US and NZ licensed pilots from international operations, until such time as "compliant" licenses are produced.

Hi Leadsled

Thanks for your verbal explosion, but they're not my words or interpretation, that's directly off the website, if you don't agree with what it says ask them to change the website.

As for the other CLARC informed me they would not accept a new licence application without a photo.

So... whats the going price for an escort these days?:O

Just to throw the cat in..

61.340 Production of licence documents, medical certificates and identification

(1) CASA may direct the holder of a flight crew licence to produce any or all of the following documents for inspection by CASA:

(a) the holder’s licence document;

(b) unless the holder also holds a medical exemption for the exercise of the privileges of the licence—the holder’s medical certificate or recreational aviation medical practitioner’s certificate;

(c) if the holder’s licence document was issued more than 10 years before the direction is given—a document that:

(i) includes a photograph of the holder showing the holder’s full face and his or her head and shoulders; and

(ii) was issued within the previous 10 years by the government, or a government authority, of any of the following:

(A) the Commonwealth or a State or Territory;

(B) a foreign country, or a state or province (however described) of a foreign country; and

(iii) has not expired or been cancelled.


As your drivers licence or ASIC/AVID meets these requirements does that not cover you if you had an older perpetual licence?

BTW the old regs stated they were moving everybody to the new photo licence in 2006, guess that didn't happen!

garrya100,
It's your interpretation of what's on web sites --- and your resultant assertions, not the same thing as as other possible interpretations, or the law.

"regulations" or just a statement of intent, one of the uncountable things that have never happened. I certainly don't know what "old" regulation, to which you refer, had a regulatory timetable or deadline for such a move.

Tootle pip!!

Ahh no actually, I haven't tried to interperate anything, simply copied directly off the website, go have a look if you don't believe me.

And from the old/current FCL Procedures manual

Between 1 July and 31 December 2004 – the following individuals need to apply for a
new photographic flight crew licence:
• Holders of Air Transport Pilot Licences and Flight Engineer Licences who hold an
Aviation Security Identity Card (ASIC) that was issued after April 2004.
Between 1 January and 31 May 2005 – the following individuals will be asked to undergo
proof of identity and background security and apply for a new Photographic Flight Crew
Licence:
• Holders of Air Transport Pilot Licences and Flight Engineer Licences who do NOT hold
an Aviation Security Identity Card (ASIC) that was issued after April 2004.
• Holders of Commercial Pilot Licences.
Between 1 June 2005 and 31 May 2006 – the following individuals will be asked to
undergo proof of identity and background security and apply for a new photographic flight
crew licence:
• Holders of Private Pilot Licences and Student Pilot Licences who have not already
undergone proof of identity and background security checks.
The background security checks and the issue of a Photographic Flight Crew Licence will
be carried out as a single procedure at the same time as a licence application is processed
or on application by existing licence holders.

garrya100,
Quite simply, I stand by what I have posted, I am well aware of all the sites you have so helpfully posted, none of them are the primary regulations.

Just somebody's interpretation as advisory information, and as you may or may not know, such a level of advisory information may be a partial defence, if you wind up in trouble about security plans and you status.

The most common issue is disputes over whether a person holding an ASIC is in a security controlled area without a justifiable reason for being in the area.

I will say it one more time: For an Australian license holder, you have to have an AVID and/or an ASIC, but you do not need an ASIC, except in the security controlled areas of an airport/airfield with a security program.

Separate provisions are made for non-Australian license holders and crews, and there is the provision mentioned by Frank A. I have used that latter provision several times, when I have been dropped off at YMML to catch a flight home. The owner/pilot dropping me off has never had a ASIC.

Tootle pip!!

I am currently in the USA and just got my pilot certificate revalidated per their new security reqts since 9/11. A very pleasant experience dealing with the FAA.
This thread leaves me thinking that I could happily stay in the USA (well, apart from the floods here in Colorado so no flying for me this week).

Dear LeadSled

I'm glad that you're aware of the sites I have been quoting. Could you then refrain from personally attacking people, and attack the argument instead.

It would be far more useful to people if you could explain where you are getting you're information from and why the website/document/etc is incorrect.

The only thing I have quoted is from the website, and have made no assertions or interpretations. I would be pleased if you could direct me to the legislation rather than going on a rant. I'm happy to be proven wrong in the effort to gain more knowledge.

On a personal note I thought of you as a person of high standards who was worthy of listening too. After your personal attack on me I'm no longer sure.

If you wish to go your hardest against me please go ahead, I'll shall not be returning to this thread.

Oh gawd,
I read the two and fro in this thread, and others, posts from the informed and the uninformed, from those versed on the "LEGAL"side and those from the "INTERPRETATION" side and I start to wonder.

"SECURITY"????
"OH&S"
"REGULARITY REFORM" etc etc.

All these little Niches that have grown into "INDUSTRIES" like parasites, riding on the back of the industry or industries they have attached to.
They forment fear to elucidate emotional responses which they use to lobby for greater powers that elicite lots of "PROFIT" generally where the original "PURPOSE" is perverted into a venal grab for cash.
What I sometimes wonder just who are the shareholders of these "INDUSTRIES".hell, when Sydney Airport can generate Eight BILLION in revenue without paying a cent of tax and its primary shareholder is registered in the Bahamas one has to wonder if the Australian public are being played for suckers. Then my old Dad always said "Never give a sucker an even Break"

You mean you’re still wondering?

That would explain a lot. :(

To put the ASIC requirement a little more simply. In order to have unescorted access at a security controlled airport, a person must display a valid ASIC. If you only have an AVID, the only option available to you to get to or from your aircraft would be to have a Visitor Identification Card (VIC) and be escorted by an ASIC holder.

The main thing to remember is that the ASIC is NOT an authority to be in the secure area of a security controlled airport. The granting of that authority rests with the airport operator. Suffice to say in most circumstances, airport staff wouldn't generally stop you accessing the required airside areas.

In my experience, there are very few, if any, security controlled airports around that have areas within the airside boundary where ASICS are not required. The obvious ones being AF, BK, PF and JT which are exempted under the regs due to no RPT services being conducted to or from those airports.

what for you no speaka da english?

Fair cop guv. Getting late and doing this on an IPad. No excuse I know.