No More KingAir Endorsements
 

Well guys the it's official. If you wish to get endorsed on a KingAir B200 or B350 after April 1st it will have to be done in a Sim. Refer CAO 82.0 and CAO 40.1.0. In addition any training in one of the above, for an organisation with CAR 217 approval, that requires the use of Abnormal or Emergency procedures has to be done in a Sim. Before I get shot down let me assure you I have done the research. The criteria are that the B200 and B350 have approval to seat 10 or more pax on their Type Data Certificate and there is a Sim available for both types in Australia.

There is no B1900 Sim in Australia and therefore endorsements and 217 T&C can be done in the aircraft. To me this is CASA lunacy at its best. I understand the intent but once again they have completely stuffed it up. Surely The intent, after the tragic accident in Darwin, was to make things safer in aircraft over 5700KG in the CAR 217 training environment. The B200 KingAir is the modern day Piper Chieftain and this new regulation will cause untold expense and heartache in the GA sector.

Please keep in mind that there is a 50 hour ICUS requirement for the first time Multi Turbine pilot before he can conduct a charter so will the above really make it any safer ??????

Groggy

Erm groggy, where is the reqt for 50 ICUS?

(yes I need to know, no I am not being a smart arse)

I hope the only connection between the PA31 and B200 you have made is in regards to how many there are, not performance!

So. does this mean we're not getting Kingairs?

(maybe only old timers will get this...)

Certificates of later model Kingairs have been amended to show 9 Pax, whereas earlier models (especially B350) had up to 14 pax.I think you might need to check the dates on the type certificates! ;)

PS:At present an endorsement can not be 'completed' on the B200 sim in Australia, as some of the flight sequences still need to be completed in the aircraft.

What about the Conquest? Mine has 10 pax seats? So if a C441 sim shows up that's it. No more abnormal training ops in the Aircraft? What if the sim breaks........and let's face it they NEVER break, cough cough, f$&k me. The whole country is shut down from doing any kind of useful training?

CAO 82.0.7 only applies to AOC holders who have a CAR 217 T&C organisation.

Therefore training on a B200 or C441 or any aircraft >5700kg MTOW would not be required to be done in a QSTD. How many AOC holders in Oz who operate King Airs, other than the 350, would have CAR 217 approval?

The 9 pax in a King Air only applies to aircraft modded for FAR 135 operations in the USA.

I know of at least 1.

The C90A and later TCDS has 13 pax seats...

CASR 61 I think has the relevant gen.

Horatio;
Groggy may have been referring to CAO 40.1.0
Wouldn't apply to B200.:ok:

ZOMG the sky is falling!

5 hours x $2000/hr in the plane... $10k

5 hours x $400/hr in the sim $2k, Flights for two people from Broome (about the worst case scenario with the sim in Melbourne?) <$2k, accommodation and allowances for two nights in Melbourne for two people $1k (cheaper options available, but lets keep it at round numbers).... so $5k.

Resulting in an extra expense of... -$5k. Might even be able to do better if you send two people down for the endo at the same time. Heck they can sit in the right seat while their sim buddy is doing their training and might learn more from others mistakes. Not to mention being able to give real engine fires at V1 in the sim, or any one of a number of system failures. Deal with a real event under pressure rather than casually talk about what would you do if...? Can't afford to lose your C&T staff for three days... might have to question your truck number there if you're CAR217, but if you're comfortable with it, can get the Sim centre to do the training and only lose the pilot you're getting endorsed.

Oh I get it... "What do you mean I can't train the pilot on the dead leg of a charter any more and get the customer to pay my expenses while still bonding the pilot for $12k?"

I disagree with a lot about CASA at the moment, but not this particular point. I've done endo's with and without the Sim.. the Sim was definitely a better endorsement despite being run by a less capable instructor. Those I've seen object to having to do endo's in the Sim, generally have never done one.

I lost track of the regulatory reform process last century, but aren't the CAOs and CARs being replaced by CASRs?

Thus CAO 40.1 will be extinct, replaced by part 61 above?

And yes, as per previous poster, I am personally struggling to see the problem with it.

Leave the CARs CASRs and CAOs for the boffins at CASA.

No one in industry looks at them (except manualsexuals).

Everything you need to know is your Jepps or the company operations manuals.

A majority of 200/B200 operators around the country are CAR217 organisations; RFDS (Qld/South Eastern), Pel-Air, Hinterland, CareFlight, Pearl Aviation.

All of which already use the Ansett sim in Melbourne.

Horatio and others, for B200 Endorsements, read CAO 40.1.0.

Groggy

No they don't

I am led to believe that the Beech Sim in ML is not currently avail as a 350.

Flash lookin' contraption though, had a peek in it the udder day, huge space inside but man was the drivers seat environment cramp, I guess old age means I 4got what it was like:-)



Wmk2

The Beech sim in the main building is configured as a 350 with proline 21, but I am told it will soon be made available as a 200 as well.


Dash.

Let me see:----throw the real Aircraft around the sky learning to fly it and risk killing yourself........or do it in a Flight Sim ?????? I choose the Sim...:ok:

Besides its a much cheaper and better training environment.

What's the problem????