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Any news on Barrier? Minus the drift.
Any news or updates regarding the fate of Barrier. Any of you folk up in Cairns heard any good rumors down the pub?
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Gone and almost forgotten... Until of course you started this thread :}
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Cactusjack at Cactusjacks
Some of us lads were knocking back a few Great Northerns Friday night at Cactusjacks and the only update thus far is that the former FNQ RM is back in town for a spell and the portly BNE CASA Crime Investigator has been sniffing around CNS for the past fortnight...otherwise it is business as usual in FNQ - Sun, humidity, backpackers and operators being shut down!
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It's approaching Feb 15.
What's the latest news? Have the staff hung around without getting paid or have they left for other jobs? |
From what i hear most of the Cairns base staff have hung around. My mate didn't say anything about the other bases though. Couldn't blame anyone for leaving, over a month without pay would leave my bank account looking a bit shabby:sad:
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Barrier Aviation
Pardon my ignorance if it has been raised elsewhere, but with today being February 15th have Barrier had their suspension lifted?
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Ahhh... Slam_click, or someone else who knows, for those of us who don't have any real experience with the Australian Legal System, what does that mean? Has the Judge said that it needs to go to the AAT to be worked out and therefore they are still grounded till they seem them next week on the 22nd?
Why would they have no decided this before this date? Do decisions like this needing a government organisations decision reversed need to go to the court first to decide if it goes to AAT? |
Uh oh...!
Off to the AAT is it. Just remember what happened to J Quadrio. :mad: CDPP reckoned CASA's case against him not a 'goer'...so no court.
Off to the AAT to get his CPL back...and CASA shovelled a big heap of, and the result is history. Hopefully there will be a JQ Part the 2 ..with a BIG heap shovelled back. And the outcome for the taxpayer..MUCH more $$s. And the benefit to the aviation "safety" case...as usual...ZERO.!!! :mad: You have to hand it to some of those CASA chaps and chapesses..they can sure do a major cock-up! :mad: |
Or......
Maybe CASA got it right. And in the prevailing 6 weeks have been able to ascertain (as much as one could in such a short time frame) the extent of the non-compliance. Some of you blokes must be dreaming if you think for a second that CASA won't have a case strong enough to support the grounding of the 'airline'. I've heard some massive numbers being bandied around with respect to NCN's. And if I was a betting man I'd wager heavily that consideration to the restoration of the AOC will be stalled until each and every one of those NCN's is acquitted. But that's just a guess......and gambling's a mugs game. The proof will be made public all too soon and I'll be happy to eat my words if I have it wrong. D::hmm: |
From what I hear CAsA tried for a 28 day extension to the grounding and didn't get it. Instead were forced into mediation. :ouch: According to CAsA's tweets they are happy with this, but my mate has said Barrier have been asking for talks with CAsA for a while now with a stern NO being the reply to any such requests. Funny how they're happy to talk, now that they have to.:hmm:
edit - from the horses mouth MEDIA RELEASE For immediate release - February 15th 2013 (Cairns) “Judge orders mediation” In a Federal Court hearing held in Sydney today the Judge has ordered that CASA and Barrier Aviation move to mediation early next week in a step to resolve a number of alleged issues. A second hearing will take place on Friday, 22nd of February in Sydney. Mr David Kilin, Managing Director of Barrier Aviation explained “we feel that mediation is a major step in the right direction and it is certainly something we have been pushing for since being grounded in December. The fact that mediation and the follow up Court hearing will take place within seven days is an indication that both parties want to resolve any alleged issues quickly. We applaud this response as the financial strain of being grounded for so long is certainly proving challenging. That said, we have to look forward. We continue to stand by our 20 year history and safety record and we welcome the opportunity to defend our name and reputation. We remain extremely grateful for the overwhelming support we continue to receive from throughout Cairns, Cape York, Torres Strait and Darwin.” END |
Defenstrator,
I think you've got it wrong, today was CASAs big chance to present evidence and witnesses, yet it would appear they didn't, why is that do you think? . They went to court, the magistate apparently did not issue CASA another 28 days, why is that do you think? . Apparently ordered to mediation, why is that do you think?. If you get caught doing 80 in a school zone, would the court order you into mediation with the police service? . Model litigator........... |
Josh,
Unfortunately, it's not as black and white as being caught doing 80 in a school zone. Barriers solicitor alluded to the fact that CASA had concerns about the safety of the Horn Island operation. CASA's initial media release stated: "CASA has evidence of Barrier Aviation directing pilots to fly with serious and known aircraft defects, as well as not recording those defects on aircraft maintenance documentation when the defects became known." Rumor has it this evidence was in the form of a snag book (let's not get into a debate about the legalities of this - its not legal!). CASA look at this, then the MR and soon work out what's going on. This warrants further investigation, and when considering the potential safety risks from letting barrier fly with evidence of "serious and known defects", they had no choice. One must cover ones own arse, and CASA are good at that. This evidence however is not the smoking gun. In order to prove the alleged occurred, it requires further investigation. Just let the investigation take its course, all will be revealed. Dash |
The little black book
:= |
6 weeks...
a short time frame.? How much paperwork is there?. If there's mobs, then overtime is 'go', or lay on extra staff.
And there's that mantra, they so often trot out..under-staffed and "overworked" Well might they have some serious poo on Barrier, and you can rest assured that they will be looking for every un-dotted i and un-crossed t, however trival, to build up the Hit file. As for the extra 28 days, thats for more financial nails to drive into the Barrier coffin. Remember..this is an outfit that does NOT play by Queensbury Rules. Local historical example ..had 119 charges on operator xxx, got busted on five, minimal fines and a 2 year good behaviour bond.! Bloody courts! :mad: |
Directions hearing today?
So any word on how the AAT mediation conference went...the directions hearing is listed this morning so I suppose we'll be hearing soon the outcome of mediation :( or :ok::
Justice Rares Court Room 19E 9:00 AM First Directions 1 (P)NSD28/2013 TAX PRACTITIONERS BOARD v MARK ANTHONY SHANAHAN 9:00 AM Directions 2 (P)NSD2240/2012 CIVIL AVIATION SAFETY AUTHORITY v BARRIER AVIATION PTY LTD ACN 056 643 531 3 (P)QUD334/2012 STANDARD BANK PLC v MITCHELL BALL AS LIQUIDATOR OF MUSTANG MARINE AUSTRALIA SERVICES PTY LTD (IN LIQUIDATION) 4 (P)NSD26/2013 INTERNATIONAL BUNKER SERVICES K.K v THE SHIP HAI SHI 5 (P)NSD2170/2012 PATRICK BYRNE v MLC LIMITED ABN 90 000 000 402 6 (P)NSD453/2012 IAN MATHIESON v DST GLOBAL SOLUTIONS PTY LTD |
Heard its in the hand of administrators...? Might be bull$hit... Nothing on the web or in CNS post
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At least two, maybe three, Barrier Bongos spotted at Mareeba earlier this week.
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testing 123
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One BN-2a-26 Islander listed 'For Sale' in Feb. edition of 'Aviation Trader'...
ex Mareeba....along with an Aztruk, Any connection with current 'financials', or just co-incidence I wonder..? Hope you Guys & Gals 'come out OK'... Cheers, and Gooood Luck...:ok: |
According to 7 Local News tonight (1800 22/02/13), another week's grounding and in that time CASA to decide whether to issue a Show Cause Notice.
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"good paint" on the Islander.. well, for being painted outside behind a tarp I suppose so!
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casa and the effect on commercial operations
To put together the public material:
ABC News 24 December, 2012 5:15PM AEST CASA extends Barrier Aviation's suspension By Sam Davis A Cairns based aircraft charter service says it expects considerable financial losses following the Civil Aviation Safety Authority's [CASA] decision to extend its suspension to February 15. 4 The extension follows Sunday's statement from CASA announcing it would take Barrier Aviation [BA] out of the air because of 'a range of maintenance related deficiencies'. The initial suspension meant BA would have been grounded for five working days but the company's 55 employees will now spend Christmas mulling more than two months out of action. Following the first suspension BA said more than 750 people may not make it home for the holidays. It is now unclear how many people will be inconvenienced. BA runs around 30 flights a day out of Horn Island, Darwin, Gove and Cairns. Manager David Kilin said the timing could not have been worse for the company. "It's totally wrecked our Christmas," he said. "It appears they've reacted to allegations made by a disgruntled former employee. The allegations put to us ... are mainly related to maintenance." In a statement released Sunday CASA said it regrets any inconvenience to passengers but that safety of passengers was their main concern. "CASA has evidence of Barrier Aviation directing pilots to fly with serious and known aircraft defects, as well as not recording those defects on aircraft maintenance documentation when the defects became known," the statement said. But Mr Kilin said BA has a strong safety record and has never been taken out of the air since the company was founded 20 years ago. "We're vigorously defending our position. With the holiday period it makes it awkward," he said. "It's just disappointing. The timing of this almost seems like it was premeditated." "I think perhaps there are individuals in CASA who are responsible for orchestrating some of this." CASA's Peter Gibson said further time was needed to investigate concerns about BA's maintenance of their fleet. "These allegations are very serious," Mr Gibson said. "Obviously not maintaining an aircraft properly, fixing faults ... puts at risk the entire safety of an aircraft during its flight. We can't condone that in Australian aviation." CASA would not comment on whether current or former employees had approached them with evidence of maintenance problems on any of BA's 34 planes. Barrier still in no-fly zone Michael Serenc Monday, January 7, 2013 © The Cairns Post THE stand-off between Barrier Aviation and the Civil Aviation Safety Authority has continued, with neither party taking any significant action since the airline was suspended from flying until February 15. Principal lawyer representing Barrier Aviation, Derek Perkins, said Barrier was still awaiting the results of CASA's investigation. "The cards are all in CASA's hands in terms of the court process and their ability to maintain an investigation whilst the airline is suspended," Mr Perkins said. "CASA have been quiet and we've been quiet. Everyone's got their heads down." In an open letter written to CASA on January 1, Mr Perkins estimated the airline was haemorrhaging $28,000 a day since being grounded and had suffered "severe reputational damage". Barrier's sudden grounding, which was initiated by CASA on December 23, has affected the airline's entire fleet of 34 aircraft and 55 staff, spread across their bases in Cairns, Darwin, Gove and Horn Island. The regulator claims it has evidence of Barrier "directing pilots to fly with serious and known aircraft defects, as well as not recording those defects on aircraft maintenance documentation when the defects became known". The charter airline was initially handed a five-day suspension but that was extended by CASA after an application to the Federal Court. CASA spokesman Peter Gibson said the regulator's investigation was still ongoing. "We've got a lot of material to work through. We have got a dedicated team working on it," Mr Gibson said. "We'll complete that as quickly as we possibly can." Mr Gibson said it was "too early to say" if CASA was on track to lift the suspension on the airline. "Barrier have said to us that they were going to put a plan to us to address the issues that we've identified so far," he said. "Now, we haven't seen that yet, but that may be of assistance." The airline has had strong support from fellow local operator Hinterland Aviation. ABC News Friday 15th February 2013 Court orders grounded airline to mediation By Sharnie Kim Updated Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:53pm AEDT PHOTO: Barrier Aviation has since had to stand down all its staff and says it is at risk of financial collapse. (ABC TV News - file image) RELATED STORY: Grounded far north Qld airline fears closure MAP: Cairns 4870 The Federal Court has ordered the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) and grounded far north Queensland-based airline Barrier Aviation to go to a mediator. CASA suspended all of the airline's operations in December last year amid serious safety concerns. Barrier Aviation has since had to stand down all its staff and says it is at risk of financial collapse. A CASA spokesman says mediation talks are expected to be held ahead of another Federal Court directions hearing next Friday. |
casa and the effect on commercial operations
Been looking this matter in the Federal Court information for what happened on Friday 22nd February 2013:
Barrier Aviation – Cairns | Assistance to the Aviation Industry This shows the full file - The matter appears finalised. |
Any news on Barrier? Minus the drift.
That court order reads as "game over".
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casa and the effect on commercial operations
Read the information that is posted!!
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Yesterdays order:
THE COURT ORDERS BY CONSENT THAT: 1. Pursuant to s 30DE(2) of the Civil Aviation Act 1988 (Cth) the respondent be prohibited from doing anything that would otherwise be authorised by the Air Operator’s Certificate held by the respondent for a period ending at 5pm on Friday 22 February 2013. 2. Each party bear its own costs of the proceedings. http://vocasupport.com/wp-content/up...s-for-file.pdf |
Lazy bugger UITA!:E Tell the story for FFS:
ASSISTED DISPUTE RESOLUTION filed by CIVIL AVIATION SAFETY AUTHORITY(A) on 20-FEB-2013 20-Feb-2013 Closed 21-Feb-2013 Court Events and Orders Details 21-Feb-2013 10:15 Mediation Registrar Tesoriero Level 17 Mediation Room Finalised - Resolved Order Type Decision Type ADR Outcomes (needed to allow entering of an outcome only) ADR - Held, Resolved - Finalised |
To me it says the judge didn't have the minerals to make a final call on the matter. Instead letting the suspension run out at 5pm on the 22nd. Leaving CAsA open to slap another 5 day suspension (which they did) on Barrier and start the financial strangling all over again.
That's my take on it anyway and I may be way off the mark. :confused: |
Leaving CAsA open to slap another 5 day suspension (which they did) on Barrier and start the financial strangling all over again. |
According to CAsA's tweets that's what they did.
Now I'm not the clueyest bloke so you'll have to elaborate on the dangerous games they're playing Josh. |
Interesting choice of words Josh...:D
D |
The story so far.
Just reading the thread; details, facts and information seem to be thin on the ground. Happy to be wrong but:-
Barrier and CASA go to court. The Judge hears two arguments and CASA only put a token show of resistance, which protects a large chunk of their case, but does enough to ensure a go away and "mediate" ruling. The next step is a failed 'mediation' which opens the 5 day door, to be followed by a Show Cause, then into the AAT under Rafferty's rules. Creamie, if you're out there; coukl you give us a steer on the implications of the 20 Feb. 13 court ruling. (Sarcs #27). Seems to me if there are two willing parties then a way forward could be mapped out so CASA can, with a clear conscience say they did their bit; and, the operator pulls a finger out and cleans up the untidy areas of their act. Puzzled, and probably got it arse about, but I'm curious now. |
casa and the effect on commercial operations
Josh Cox:
You show your "colours" here. You have not put in the complete order. This may explain why Kharon can't see the play here by FF. Barrier Aviation – “Orders” | Assistance to the Aviation Industry Please read carefully. And for JC, here is the reference he made - READ!!! http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/...psfc8c427e.png |
Uita,
If you were trying to say something important, try using plain language. "Colours", what are you babbling about ?, I don't work for barrier.......... Thanks for posting the whole order, I was unable to do it on my android phone.:ok: |
I think he's referring to the rosey 'tint' of your specs.
D |
casa and the effect on commercial operations
YUP - A FF colour maybe!!
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If barrier are so naughty, why then hasn't that been proven in the federal court, you know, last week when they were there ?.
Be naughty = get caught and be proven in court = punishment. |
Seriously Josh. Your bias is to the point of absurdity. Have you ever stopped to think that IF this was as cut and dry as you continuously say it is, then the company in question would be back in the air already, or indeed the unpleasantness of it all would never have begun in the first place. Your loyalty is commendable though its making you sound like a goose.
D |
casa and the effect on commercial operations
Maybe it's:
Maybe Naughty [Depend on dodgy statements to go to AAT] = Ground the Operation = Go to Court [Operator in a Court which requires proper evidence and collection of evidence and meeting the AGIS standard] = Not Enough viable evidence = What's next [Use collected evidence that may not meet Court standards in another forum???] |
Across the whole legal system, guilt has to be proven, if the prosecution can not prove guilt, then it didn't happen.
If Mr Richardson's evidence, the hundreds of tax payer funded hours of investigation and the ceasure of someone's personal diary was insufficient to obtain a conviction , perhaps there is a reason you that. From what I've heard this individual was sacked by another operator prior to working for barrier, was universally hated by all at barrier and sacked for multiple dangerous acts in an aircraft. |
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