Gillards Carbon Tax and effect on Aviation fuel
 

Well what can I say, if it was that easy to raise funding, and CASA and ATSB needed more, why don't they syphon off some of this unfair and hideous tax.

This needs to be stopped, not because all us pilots are the filthy rich playboys we all dream of being, because it is morally wrong. The sooner her government get the ar$e the better :mad:.

And they hide it in the exise, so one day we all forget.

Can somebody print stickers with this and stick them on every pump they pull up to!

Extract from AirBP
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/a...XonAVFuels.jpg

Good to know, when the flying schools up their prices it had better only be by that amount per lt/hr of fuel burn.

For a typical single ( 35 l/hr ) no more than $1.75 per hour increase, have I got my maths correct? It doesn't seem much!!


( if I read the above table correctly acpl:- Australian cents per litre)

So why is this carbon tax at something like 3% much much worse than the 10% GST we pay? We pay GST on top of excise so it's taxing a tax, why was there no railing against GST? Don't get me wrong I don't agree with a carbon tax either but surely to be consistant if you don't agree with 3% tax then the GST should be at least 3 times worse?

There is more to it that just the simple view you are seeing here.

If the government wanted to raise taxes, then do so, raise the GST to 11% on EVERYTHING.

A carbon tax is a selective tax. Why not introduce all those stupid and varying sales taxes we had before. :ugh:

Why not introduce more complex tax collection....like we had before:ugh:

Why not grow another empire in the ATO....like we had before :ugh:

Why give some people tax relief on a consumption we all have and not others :ugh:

Mand made CO2 is the least of this countries woes :ugh:

Feel free to add some more.

Some small family businesses will be up for $65,000 a year more in business costs alone, and what will be gained for it? :mad:

3% may be better than 10%,
but when you add them together.........:rolleyes:

The GST was promised to rid us of State tax's, Provisional tax, (by Lib's),State excise etc. etc, except dishonestly the mostly Labor States at the time decided to grab the GST plus keep the Tax's. You can probably blame the Democrats for corrupting that, but seeing as they don't exist any more, (much like what will happen to The Greens), it doesn't really matter does it?

Did anybody note in the "forecast" budget that Diesel fuel went up.

But that won't make any difference to transporting fuel to Burketown will it?

Bunch of whingers! :) We live in one of the lowest taxed countries in the world and a little carbon tax will not change a thing. After 5 years, I still can't believe how little taxes I pay here and what services I get back for it compared to the various European countries I used to live in.

Australian Exceptionalism | Pollytics

Obviously, I agree with just about every scientist in the world that the current warming of the planet is our doing, so I don't see it as revenue raising. The great thing about a selective tax is that you can avoid it by changing your ways. Every edition of Murdoch Today is filled with how our electricity bills will go up by 10%, but not a word about how ridiculously simple it is for households to lower their consumption by the same amount.

What I am wondering is what makes up the rest of the $2+ cost of AVGAS and I doubt BP would be very willing to break that down for us.

Really? The old sky is falling routine loses impact every time it's used :8

Hey Baswell,

It's Ok to penalize local industry through carbon emission taxes right?
It's Ok to sell coal to China and India where it is going to be burnt right?
It's Ok to force local industry off to China and India right?
China and India burn our coal in a different environment to us right?......oh wrong?......it's the same environment right?

Flown over Australia lately? Flown over China lately? Do you recall who had the pollution issue? Can you explain how this penalty upon our already diminishing manufacturing industry is going to help? Can you also enlighten us as to how this tax move in Australia is going to prevent your belief in global warming? No really, please, go ahead, we are all waiting!

Please explain without any Lefty, wind, solar, moonbeam, idealism please.

I hate a government that screws workers but I DETEST a government that screws workers while telling us they are here for us!

Bbbbbbbbbzbzbzbzbzbzbzbzbzbzbzbzbzbzbzbb

Gotta start somewhere. Europe will follow soon.

Hopefully, the participants will be smart enough to start applying the tax to imports from places like China, to incentivise them to change their ways or become uncompetitive. Might even see some manufacturing come back here, using less wasteful processes, using technologies that can then be exported to others.

And we'd still be paying less tax than anyone else in the western world, just like we do now.

But that's probably too "lefty idealism" for you...

You seen what a packet of smokes costs overseas?

The crowd yelled BULL****!:}

Well how about we all change our ways. We should all stop flying for a start.

Cancel our Jepps, cancel our medicals cancel our aeroclub subs, give our ipads to the kids to play games............................................

................................cancel our ozrunw##$ subscription :eek::eek::eek:


Surely not.

C'mon baswell........you do not really mean that do you! ;)

Now had the government just said, lets just raise GST to 13% and we will take all the extra revenue, and put it towards pensioners, old folks homes schools and hospitals.

I would not mind so much at all.

this tax has been nothing but lies lies and more damn lies, it is a tax to fix something that is not even broken but non existant.

If you want to slug the people of Australia, sure do it, but do it legitimately and to our faces not behind our backs with something shonky. Do it without loading up an inefficient system of collection even more.

Heck, I might whinge a lot, and I am not a Clive Palmer by any stretch, but I have some hope of dealing with the burden, many do not, and for them I really feel they will suffer not even knowing why, let alone understanding it.

Carbon Taxes have been tried for over 20 years, they did NOTHING, in fact the opposite has occured.

Taxing tobaco has worked how well???? :ugh::ugh: And that is a worthy cause. CO2 is not.

Did anyone happen to notice which new-age enviro-saving companies have been granted extra money in this new budget? After all that's why these donkeys are collecting all the extra money right?

The headline party........ What a joke!

Bbbbbbbbbbzbzbzbzbzbzbzbzbzbzbzb

Bull****! and stupid, stupid "Hyper Bowl".

No cuts to the only "estimated" end of year profit/loss bottom line at 30JUN 2013, include research and development, once spent on medical implications to an ageing population, but now spent on "proving the science" that the quoted hyperventilate whenever they get the chance.

Rip it out of Defence, after all the house hasn't burn't down before, so why do we need insurance. (apologies to Mr Joyce).

sic:

You know what....what a CROC of ****!.

Baswell, I normally readily agree with you, but not on this.

The ONLY thing europe will do is sit back and watch to see in how many ways this will destroy us. We are test pilots for the whole world!!!!!.
-----------------------------------------------

I cannot begin to compare this with the GST like anyone else. The GST is transparent. I can see how much I was charged, how much I need to charge out and how much I need to pay the tax man.

This Tax in its nature, is hidden. You can only ESTIMATE IT. The cost impost on ANY business is going to be huge and widely variable. Even the cost of estimating it is out of control...and beleive you me, the time I have already spent trying to accomodate it = 1 months production for myself alone...thank christ i get my advice in this area for 'free' under barter.

Forget its impost on families as being small, because the impost on business is going to be so large that the families won't have jobs to pay the dang tax anyway.

Lets have a look at my own businesses expenses just for a minute, just to show where every business in Aust is at. I'll stick with the 3% unit suggested, as its wrong, and appears is going to be closer to 7.5 %

Power. 225 pcm. (50% of that is spent running my 'green' equipment anyway.) So we can add your suggested 3% to that.

Telephone. $60 pcm. Do we add 3% to that...surely the power use is lower than that increase.

I'll group the question on the next couple, as they are variable usage.
Paint. avg $57 per litre. (we just had a 4% rise due to security costs assoc with controlled substances(read terrorism measures))
Sand paper. average $49 per pack
Masking paper $42 per roll
..........the real list is 4 pages long.
Waste disposal. $38 pcm.

So do we just add 3% to that? or do we add 3% to the cost of the product, allow 2.1% for delivery charge increases, another 11.7% for the resulting GST BONUS?

Or do i sit tight on my current hourly rate until i am able to ascertain by what % i am going broke by?

The early projections, pretty much all based on assumptions, is that my hourly rate will move from $70 +GST to more than 115 +

Can you see me surviving on that? Are you going to spend 115 ph having me restore your volkswagon beetle when it needs 200 hours of work (low figure for a turn key resto)

Seriously! I will be 300% better off renting a factory in china and including the freight on your car in my price...and i'll still be cheaper than having it done in OZ.

And if I am not mad enough, This years budget has been handed down. It includes the projected 'income' from the carbon tax. Take a look at how much of that is intended to be spent on green projects, i.e wind farms, solar technology, clean coal etc. I'm too scared to look, but u can bet your Fat A that its less than 10%.

If it was 100% then i'd STFU. this is nothing more than revenue for the current and future wally's world governments.


Do not get me wrong, I have nothing against working to help the environment. I am no greenie, but prefer to be regarded as nature concious.

I don't think the GST is that great, but at least lil johnny howler had the cajones to take it as a policy to an election

Oh Dear Jab,

There are some here who will say...Not Him again!! However......

When Dick got rid of 'Good Ole F.S.', part of the mantra was that you (we) will now get rid of the tax on AVGAS that was used to provide the funding for F.S. - 2 cents /litre or something like that - wasn't it..??

You know - 'Your Safety Will Be..... etc etc.. Cost You LESS"...??

At least, then, you (we) got 'something of value' for our 2c's worth..!!

Now, we pay much much more, and get much much less, including losing the subsidy of 'cheap' - free maps and charts.

I would just LURVE to have a system, where I 'mandated' that you (we) all HAVE to purchase various maps and charts and then I CHARGE YOU (us) whatever I like..!! After all, I just HAVE to show a PROFIT!!

And, did I mention - I'M F#@*in GREEDY!!!
'Tis just another form of taxation where the mandated authority has to show a 'profit' to the shareholder - The Govmint!!
BOTH PARTIES hold us in the same 'esteem'.....and NEITHER of them have Gumption nor clear cut policies!!!!

And, Jab, re, "and I am not a Clive Palmer by any stretch", Clive told me only yesterday that he borrowed a 'modest sum' from you....only recently...

Rant over...I'm orf to the fridge....
:yuk::yuk:

ALL PUMPS SHOULD READ -

Fuel - 50 C / Litre...PLUS GUVMINT TAXES!!!

:eek::yuk::yuk:

Yup, I mean it, carbon is a problem, a tax might help, and if it doesn't, we're still one of the lowest tax countries in the world, now with some more much needed revenue. And the tax is probably fairer than at first sight. Companies will simply pass the cost on to consumers.

Paying more for AVGAS sucks, but energy is probably better spent on seeing if we can get some investment back into aviation from the extra revenue.

As a business man, the last thing I want is lower taxes and less public services. How is that working out for the US? The pitiful wages to the majority of the population, which they then have to spend on services the government doesn't provide anymore so they can't afford to buy the goods and services from their own, or any, employers which thus have to lend them money via credit cards or mortgages funded by their employees 401(k) plans until it all blows up. (The only way they can keep it going is by colluding with OPEC to require payment for oil in USD.)

Yes, keep government honest, but judging them simply by tax rates going up or down (did I mention they are some of the lowest in the world?) is not the way to do it.

It is economic outcome that counts. And as far as I can tell, we have one of the best economies and greatest prosperity of any country in the world.

It's 2012. We shouldn't be burning things to make electricity.

Only $$ will force change.

Then there will be more oil to burn in our flying machines.

True, although to be fair to Julia when she said there was to be no carbon tax was it a core promise or non core promise? :} "Never ever be a GST" ring a bell anybody?

Strim,

IF we can 'grow it', and then burn it in our 'flying machines', then I reckon I would say 'that is sustainable'.....and, GO FOR IT!!

BUT, forgive us the taxes that simply put us out of business...

And, if ya worried about the so called 'carbon' that 'WE' are supposed to be putting into the atmosphere...there have been 'Geological Periods' in the past where the carbon in the atmosphere was MUCH MUCH MORE than it is now.

Do you know, that a looong time ago (Admittedly..), OZ was covered in ICE??

And, at another time, OZ was covered in 'Tropical Vegetation'..??

Maybe 'WE' are simply in the middle of an 'ongoing process'....

IF you don't believe that, do a bit of research and find out just how 'ULURU' came to be where it it ....and why..??

:eek::eek:

The reality is that the Carbon Tax will have a negligible cost on most of us, including Aviators.

We need to do reduce the use of carbon based energy sources and the conventional economic wisdom is that making it dearer will encourage people to consume less.

The net financial cost for most of us will be less than five bucks a week.

Really Baswell?

I don't mind paying my taxes. Taxes serve to provide services. Basic principle. Even a dumb tin basher like me can understand that.

The govmints (thanx griffo) budget has allocated a coupla hundred million for dental health. The ONLY people that will benefit from that are collingwood supporters (thanx Gold FM). I WON'T see a brass razoo of that...despite my need. Kaz3g and metalman2 know me personally, and they will back me up that I could use some of that govmint assistance.

I dropped my private health cover some time ago. Dental health has long been an issue of mine, so when i took private cover, i chased down one with the best cover in that area. After spending $1400 per year for said cover, my fangs are still screwed, even after the health insurance paid its bit, i still couldn't afford the work needed to be done.,,,and that work is due to a failed govmint trial on dealing with what is now known as ADHD..or some other similar chemical code.


You can take your support for this tax and shove it up your kyber. I see nothing in it to help ALL Australians, and it gives a sour lip service to helping the environment.

PeterC005
 

You're f*cking dreaming dude.

Neville
 

Bloody oaf it does. Paul Keating took that to an election. Howler promised otherwise...with a whole boatload of sweeteners and beat him on it. Like i said earlier (and i hate howard) at least he had the balls to be honest about his plans to get elected upon

Money milking soul destroying political turds.
 

F#ck Gillard and her motley crew of blood sucking spin producing parasites.

Interesting to see a couple of people talking GST figures of 11% and 13%. Don't laugh, it will end up happening. These turds (Labor an Liberal) don't give a damn about the impact on the aviation community, it's subsidiaries and the flow on effect any incoming or potential change will have on the broader sector of business throughout this country. No decisions these grubs make ever impacts them. Politicians receive some of the following perks:

• Special superannuation entitlements so that any changes that effect you and I remain just that - changes that negatively affect you and I, they the Politicians, remain free from any grief, different rule set.
• Carbon tax and it's effect on electricity - No problem! Politicians receive generous allowances and entitlements in which electricity costs at their personal residence are met, by the taxpayer of course, under the pretense that
the Pollie does 'work from home'.
• Fuel - Aagh yes that old chestnut. A bit of pre election ACCC hocus pocus sees the Ranga flexing her miniscule muscle against the so-called nasty oil barrons and their amazing ability to rip us off blind. More political bull****, the government reaps a filthy amount of revenue from fuel, and the higher it is priced the more they reap. But don't panic, Pollies get free cars and don't pay for servicing, fuel, rego, insurance, tyres, nor do they lose money through depreciation, so hell yeah let's go for it boys and let's increase rego and let us allow insurance to skyrocket because we, the Pollies, don't have to pay anything!
• Now, job losses, everywhere - Industry is bleeding and jobs are dissapearing everywhere. But hey, who cares, Politicians don't cut back staff, you dont see a reduction in the Senate or in Minister numbers do you? Of course not. And as
for paycuts, think again. If a Politician enters a higher personal income tax
bracket they shuffle the deck and raise their 'living away allowances' and a host of other 'payments' to 'compensate' for the loss. No surprise really, but us lowlifes don't get that same privilege now do we?

So as has been said many times throughout history human government is filled with self indulging, lying deceptive sh#tbags.
Thanks for nothing vermin.

gobbles, you echo my thoughts very well.

You do realise, that Keating (as much as I do love him) set the bar of Small Business = 50 employee's or less.

Unlike the current muppets, he at least recognised us! In reality, small business accounts for almost 80% of employment in this country.


I know i bagged ozzies who's favourite passtime is bagging their homeland, but the short story is, that the ONLY thing keeping me in australia is my parents.

I love this country as well, warts an all.
I am just nauseated by the direction this place us being taken by consecutive terms of utter mismanagement.

Back to the thread.........

i thought this was the thread.

you are nauseated? only that? I cannot think of a word that describes my feelings without using f*ck as 90% of the sentence

The thread relates to the impact of Carbon Tax on Avgas.

The short answer is not much of a difference.

don't worry. if dillard gets her way, avgas will represent 95% of your hire charge
and the poor old lames will be asked to take a paycut to keep GA affordable!


What LAME's are paid in the GA sector is a total joke!

Peterc

Nahh not much, wild guess off the top of my head, jumbo load of kero maybe $12,500 every time she sucks up from the hydrant.

Now with the usual costs of doing business that is a big slug on top. Multiply this by every load every day.

Sounds like you have done your research, so tell me, things would be better in which country? And why?

Socialism is a very attractive political theory until there's no more OP money to support it.
happy days,

Are you calling this current Government socialist?
Be reds under the beds next.

One can also say that corporatism (which is where we are now, capitalism isn't the correct term anymore) is a very attractive economic theory until all the money has been accumulated by only a few and nobody else has any money left to buy anything from them. (US being a good example of that)

So maybe we need to find a good balance between the two systems?

The figure you quote is a percentage of how much upload?