Ferris Wheel crash at Old Bar
 

Well the initial report is out now, and there appear to be some serious questions to be asked.

Investigation: AO-2011-126 - Collision with terrain - Cheetah Sierra 200 aircraft, 24-7634, Old Bar Airstrip, New South Wales, 1 October 2011

With reference to the images provided, what brain dead moron:

1. Allowed a plastic automotive fuel filter to be used, let alone located forward of the firewall?

2. Used plastic cable ties in lieu of metal hose clips to secure a fuel line to a fuel filter and pump?

3. Tied electrical wiring to fuel lines?

4. Misdrilled, Ovalised and rewelded holes in what appears to be a control column? The visibly bent threaded rod end bearing I will charitably attribute to crash damage.

5. Failed to provide chafe protection for a brake line exiting the fuselage?

6. Failed to meet any form of edge distance limit on fitting a fibreglass fairing?

What have I missed? What a piece of crap.

Fortunately.. by pure a$re.. 3 good things came out of this accident
No fire, no fatalites ... and the poster of the year ! :ok:
I near fell off my chair laughing!
Brilliant!!!

And this was a factory built aircraft!!:eek: Although the serial number did not match the registration :suspect:.

That's OK, because the pilot received his training from, and had his RA-Aus certificate issued on the basis of an organisation that didn't exist in the records of the RAA :ok:

I think this bloke is properly faaaaaarked, :hmm:

Sunfish

I remember VH-XXX telling me once ages ago.....do not ever get in one of those, or let anyone you care about in one of those aforementioned contraptions.

I think what you have found was only part of the reason, the rest had something to do with very poor handling qualities:eek:

Perhaps that played a part in the overall scene?

morno......Summed it up well there :uhoh: Would you like to expand on your opinion?


PS : Can you believe a 2+2 RAA registered aircraft? No Way, Morgan Aeroworks - Cougar
Sure it could be 4 seats but two removed......but what a misleading website. Check out the Vertical stab and rudder, all on a 110 knot machine. Crosswind limit? :hmm:

Without condoning the quality of the aircraft in any way :yuk: - what difference did all this have regarding the crash!
He HIT a F685665ng FERRIS WHEEL on the SECOND circuit!:ugh::ugh:

It would have made no difference if he was in a well built RV9 or a Baron.;)

Agree there 'TE' the poor quality of this flying machine had zip to do with this event but am sure sometime latter one of those lovely engineering feats hidden within would have been responsible for bringing down this machine anyway.
I'd hate to imagine just how many planes are flying out there with similar potential disasters just waiting. What you don't see won't hurt you is what's lurking behind most planes panels etc.


Wmk2

so was it a strong ferris wheel, or poorly built aircraft that ensured the wheel didnt topple over?

Certainly.

From the Prelim ATSB Report, it appears that:

• The PIC appears to have been not properly licenced
• The Aircraft appears to have not been registered
• The PIC landed downwind
• The PIC "appears" to be telling fibs during his statement (note - I can only base that opinion on the very different evidence that has appeared as witness statements and videos)
• The PIC did not seek approval from the aerodrome operator to operate at the aerodrome
• The PIC did not seek information on obstacles etc. from the aerodrome operator

Overall, it appears the PIC really didn't have a clue.

Really? I must remember that one next time I go join the circuit somewhere.

It appears that a ton of bricks is about to come down on this gentlemen by ways of possible law suits and possible prosecution. :eek:

morno

Disclaimer - The above opinion is based solely on the information provided by the ATSB report and does not have any basis upon information of my own knowledge.

:eek: I thought a touch and go was to practice landings, not to assess conditions of an ALA?

Sure, the defective aircraft didn't cause the crash on this occasion.

There are a bunch of other factors at play though:
- The pilot wwas trained and tested by a person/organisation that was not on the RA-Aus list of approved flight training facilities.

- Despite this, RA-Aus issued a flight crew certificate.

- The pilot elected to land (probably) downwind, despite other aircraft landing in the opposite direction. A downwind landing would certainly help to explain the long touchdown, the apparent poor braking performance, and the poor climb performance on go-around. The pilot's explanation was that he landed in the same direction on another day.

- The pilot failed to see a 20m high ferris wheel on his overfly of the strip, on the first approach with touch and go, and on his final approach and go-around. The ferris wheel was 161m from the end of the runway and 34m from the centreline, and was brightly painted. Of course we don't know about his eyesight standard as this is not examined for the issue of a certificate.

- The pilot either didn't check or didn't comprehend the airfield information for Old Bar, as he didn't acknowledge the known obstacles, and didn't obtain permission for landing.

- The pilot's account to the ATSB varied significantly from his account to the police, and to the witness observations.

- The pilot either didn't check or didn't comprehend the weather forecast as the wind at Taree was similar to the reported wind at Old Bar.

It certainly looks like the holes really lined up here. The very first, and very big hole was the failure of the training and certification system of RA-Aus. Who knows what he was taught prior to the issue of the certificate.

It was really just monumentally lucky that he hit an unoccupied part of the wheel, that the wheel didn't tip over, that there was no fire, and that he didn't hit anyone or anything else - particularly given the fact that he never made it to more than about 15m above the crowd.

UL

That is true to your form:ok: Funny, and rather accurately judged:D

Let's say the wheel did not look that robust.

I bet your Savvy is not built like that:)

Morno

Seems it was re-registered the day before, beside the point.

RAA is heavily populated with a lot of good operators, many current airline pilots, you name it. Trouble is there are a great number who do not treat aviation with the respect it deserves.

Too much of the ....I want my freedoms, I want to do it my way, and to heck with rules, airmanship and the laws of physics.

We have too many rules in this country and they are all too complex, and often the reason is that due to morons like this chap, the owner, and the builder we get lumped with more and more regulation to stop these folk from killing themselves.

I have said this before, when you hear of folk getting a BFR done just because he turned up, well that is the value placed on the privilege, and the way it will be treated.

Education is lacking. And this applies to GA as well, go back to the engine thread for example.

So, serious question - will the good regulator CASA be suspending RAAus operations (admin functions) pending investigation, like they would with any other outfit?

Jaba,
Registered even with the wrong plate on the airframe?

I'm not an expert on RAA, so my knowledge in that area is quite lacking.

Hmmm well that could be a clerical error by RAA but you are right. It did not match.

It is likely that a clerical error by RAA would not be viewed by any court as the aircraft not being registered. But could this be just the beginning of something worse? Probably not, but who knows.

What a Charlie foxtrot all round.

Hey great one:D
the report raises more questions than it answers ,but lets put the boot in with a half arsed attitude!!!!
like who ? Hempel,,,transair,,,,there's plenty of shoddy operators around who are still going ,maybe when some dumbass hits the ground in an unairworthy GA aircraft we should call for CASA ops to be suspended ,they are after all running the safety side of aviation,,,

Is that correct, that this was a factory built aircraft??, the bleedin' rivit lines are not even straight, let alone edge distance, far out (double:eek::eek:) and the other stuff, gawd may the saints preserve us.

So it could have been put together at the Boeing Factory with the 737-800s then? :E

Quote:

---

It was really just monumentally lucky that he hit an unoccupied part of the wheel, that the wheel didn't tip over, that there was no fire,

---

Must admit it was my first thought, top marks to the riggers and the designers. Is it F=MA, anyway, they gave the ferris wheel a fair old whallop.

Glad it was no worse.

- and, Morno thats Toasted and Farrqued. :D

...and we sit here and take CASA to task for its faults?????

Does anyone comprehend what will happen if a petition about CASA behaviour goes to Parliament?

All CASA has to do is produce this report and others like it to justify it's allegedly "heavy handed" approach. How stupid will pilots look then?

Can RAA clean up its act? Furthermore, what about the rest of the shonky Australian manufactured crap out there?

far from built like that, every hole has edge distanceat least! though i do have a few skin pins i need to send back to Bill! well, 3 actually, in hard to acess areas, but still a well built aircraft..equal if not better than the factory ones.. (savannah that is)

On the rego issue, sure its possible a clerical error could be to blame, though the staff in the RaAus office are usually pretty much on the ball,im thinking it could be more of the multiple car trailer, one rego plate/label trick...:=

the wording
"A search of the RA-Aus listing of approved flight training facilities revealed no such training facility existed under that name."
could be just a name issue, not as sinister as it first sounds, but there's a lot of issues adding up in one incident!

It's not in the preliminary report but I also heard that alot of the locals are angry that the PIC and his pax not only jumped the que but didn't have a ticket for the ride....

Stiky

excuses, excuses....
 

Sunfish....
The un-airworthiness of one aeroplane could/will undoubtably be used as an example/ "safety" mallet, to bash politicians into submission about "safety, safety, safety"...and therefore CASA should be allowed to get on with saving the world from falling aeroplanes...BY WHATEVER MEANS IT TAKES. GIVE US THE UNFETTERED POWER,and leave the rest to us!

Nobody has an argument about dills in poorly built/maintained aeroplanes.Its a no brainer.

BUT...Piss poor regulations, many of which have sfa to do with safety, defamatory inputations,illegal actions, malicious and wrongful mistatements,
and all manner of bureaucratic buggery... at huge taxpayer expense, will go in to pursuing any small target about any issue, however insignificant. With NO safety outcomes.
The mega millions wasted by CASA on court cases and reg "re-writes"
is a national disgrace.
That CASA has been allowed to run amok for far too long,is also a national disgrace. But it has because there is NO oversighting mechanism to keep CASA on the path it is supposed to follow, with integrity, honesty, fairness and due process.

This petition is perhaps a chance to make parliamentarians finally aware of WTF has been going on, to hang our dirty CASA washing on their line.

We, the aviation people, demand change..it sure as hell can't continue as it is, to the great detriment to Aviation in this country.

Perhaps you havent been knifed by CASA....yet! Many people have and bear the scars today.

Change MUST occur, because if it doesnt in years? to come, we the people, will have to make it. Enough!

Hmmm ... ;)

The problem is because of years and years sorry Decades of CASA abusing the industry instead of working side by side in it, many many folk have gone underground. We all hear of dodgy fix ups, dodgy ops, and in this case RAA has to some extent been a by product of folk trying to avoid the higher standards and cost. This is not to say RAA and all who sail in her are as bad. But what it has allowed in the last 10 or so years is for a subculture to develop. You can find evidence of this on "other forums" and it is not good.

Compare the workmanship in Arnold E's photos, to what you saw in the ATSB report, I am sure we will agree that his Experimental is a far better quality product that the ferris wheel ornament. In fact far better than most other aircraft on the VH register.

So what is the problem and the solution. :confused: Well here are my comments on another thread, some seemed to like them, I think they apply well here.

You don't have to go too far to see plenty of "ferris wheel ornaments" in one place. Last time I flew to narromine, a good percentage exhibited similar if not worse construction quality. :eek:
(that said, there are some brilliant examples of foreign technological advancement as well)

It's hardly a subculture, it's in plain sight for everyone to see. Why else would you fly it to a flyin? :rolleyes:

This is not meant to be an RAA bash- I'm just upset that we are a bees dck from everyone being tarred with the same brush. Remember ABE builders enjoy their privileges via (instantly) revocable instruments of approval, and I guarantee you that the subtleties of RAA vs SAAA are totally lost on the ignorant public and their elected representative. :mad::mad:

BE
:mad:

Aroa, I feel your pain, but unfortunately CASA will hold up this report as an example of why it needs its unfettered powers - and the politicians will cave in yet again.

Morgan Aeroworks:


Yeah, right.

The 24-#### rego means factory built. Ok to train and hire:eek:

Are those fuel lines and fittings factory fit? If so I expect an emergency AD to sprout into our inboxes (for those who subscribe to AD's) some time very soon.:hmm:

The rego indicates factory built, and the report confirmed that this was supposed to be the case. Remember though that the registration did not correspond with the aircraft serial number. I guess there are 2 possibilities then. Either this is a particularly poor example of factory workmanship, or there has potentially been some creative numbering going on to allow a home built aircraft to be used for hire and training.

Is this aircraft available other than factory built? I can't see any kit option on the builders website. The factory is located at Taree. The factory does not seem to have denied being the builder. OK so we have a badly built aircraft with irregular and unclear registration. We have a pilot whose pilot certificate may not be in order. We have no explanation from any individual who might be able to clarify these irregularities. Why do they remain silent? Fear of criminal or civil liability maybe. Not a good look.

apparently pilots cert is in the clear,,,,the aircraft builder,,,mmmmmm this will be interesting!

Yes the aircraft involved was factory built. Yes you can get them in kit form, however then they wouldnt be 24-xxxx regoed. This aircraft was built and owned by the manufacturer/builder/factory guy.

Wow! If that's true, some of the photos out of the ATSB report will look great on his website! Can't wait to buy one :rolleyes:

Remember being at xxx for lunch and going out to see a yyy on a sales mission. Approaching from behind I could see the ground through the canopy and cockpit. Initially thought he has picked on the idea of nosewheel retracting into the cockpit (helps with the old gear up landing problem).

Nope, I was looking at the ground through canopy and forward luggage compartment hatch past the rudder pedals – so if junk in the forward luggage compartment shifted things could get interesting.