Getting past the receptionists when looking for Charter jobs
 

I've recently discovered a new challenge to this industry, one that has nothing to do with actual flying but is so important!

How does one get to see the chief pilot when visiting air charters up in the NT/WA?

You can spend a lot of money and time visiting these places to not meet the CP and have your resume placed in the bin :/

I'd be most interested if anybody has any tips or advise in tackling these "very solid brick walls".

Bring flowers if the receptionist is female. Bring a carton if it's a bloke.

Sorry.... NT/WA. Bring a carton for either gender :}

A point worth noting: It's just as difficult to see the Chief Pilot anywhere in Oz.

I had this problem as a youngling in another industry that's almost as parochial. If you can possibly dredge up a friend, relative, friend-of-a relative or relative-of-a-friend who knows the target (sorry, CP:}) it can be a useful intro in a phone conversation with them. 'Bob suggested I give you a call' is a lot more memorable than being wannabe #301 for the week and may help your resume make it past the circular file.

My guess would be that ringing ahead before rocking up would good business practice, but maybe it's different for regional flying ops.

If all else fails, remember to be scrupulously polite to receptionists and well presented. It's amazing how many job seekers aren't, and it invariably gets back to whoever's doing the hiring.

Good luck!

I've tired calling ahead of time and it's resulted in giving the receptionist warning to deny you when you arrive! :ugh:

I've figured if you want to see the right people it involves moving into town for an unknown period of time so you can visit each operator multiple times. Eventually you will get to the right person and only then does the interview process begin... Unless there's another step that nobody has told me about? :}

Quite simply, make an appointment. Frustrating I know but at least you will have a headsup before arriving as to whether the CP wants to talk to you or not.

just be careful, that 'receptionist' might just be a pilot not flying that day for some reason, or the CP him/herself not in uniform....

I can hear conversations in the reception area from my desk, and how people treat the receptionist affects whether I'm "in" or "out" when pilots come calling.

And as Nick says, the receptionist might not be who you think they are ... I've overheard some interesting conversations between my boss and potential employees who didn't realise that the woman sitting behind the desk that morning owns the business.

I am with you U/H, very humourous watching some people come in the door and they think they are 'just' talking to 'the receptionist'. Alot of GA work places are tight knit. Make a tool of yourself at the front desk and good luck getting any further, no matter who you are speaking to.
Best just to be courteous, and yes, attempt to make an appointment or ask when the best time might be to catch the CP. If the CP doesn't want to see job applicants, you aren't in with much of a chance.

Yes I've heard that too, quite recently, where a company director was running the front desk and treated like something the wannabee employee scraped off their shoe. Great karma. Has happened to me too. "Make me a coffee while I wait for the CFI" :mad::mad::mad:

The very solid brick walls are there for a good reason, the same reason that most workplaces have a reception person. BECAUSE THE BOSS ACTUALLY HAS WORK TO DO.

My front desk staff are instructed not to allow anyone through who hasn't had the courtesy to make an appointment, and they are very good at spam filtering. They can deal with 99% of the stuff that comes through the door anway.

Poor manners such as a complete stranger barging in with no notice expecting to drag me out of a briefing room/meeting/prevent me from meeting a deadline (or just get home on time) makes an appalling first impression and their resume is destined for the circular filing cabinet for that reason alone.

Who advises these people?! :eek: Do they really think CPs just sit there all day longing for the perfect stranger to walk through the door? Would you do it for any other type of job??

There was the story of the man who went to see a highpowered and expensive London solicitor. He walked in to the waiting area and sat down, and a well-groomed young lady greeted him. He asked her to get him a cup of coffee while he waited.

She did so, waited patiently until he'd finished it, then called him into her office where the 'clock' had already been runnning for 20 minutes at about £250 an hour!

Awesome:ok:.

"But when you are invited, go and sit in the lowest place, so that when your host comes he may say to you, ‘Friend, move up higher.’ Then you will be honored in the presence of all who sit at table with you". Luke 14:10.

I'm sure other non Christian religious texts contain similar advice, i.e. don't assume you're the biggest cheese in the room until you're really sure. Even then be polite, because you don't know who the cadet receptionist is related to. Trust me, I've been the cadet receptionist :}.

The logical thing is to make an appointment. If the Cp won't accept appointments don't think that they are the be all and end all - owners - ops manager - senior pilots - engineers even the receptionist may be of help to get your resume on the desk at the top of the pile.

It's funny how a little research goes a long way though. Ring ahead to find a suitable time to just drop a resume off... Just a resume nothing more. Then when you drop it off try make an appointment be as polite and professional as you would expect to be treated ( may not be very much for some) and you should be in a better position. Try not to rush visits...

Hope this helps someone
cheers

Tell the receptionist you're from the ATSB or CASA when you call.....works every time

How about be considerate, honest and well mannered and when walking into the operator understand that you have an "L" stuck to your back.... also remember your name is not Pete Mitchell
Try and try again, if that fails, try again.

OMG.. It seems from all these replies that every piddling little general aviation chief pilot or CFI in Australia (including one Mod by the tone of the reply) have delusions of grandeur. And Australians boast of being egalitarian...

This in marked contrast to the experience of one of my friends who knocked on doors at Djakarta airport in Indonesia, looking for a flying job and where he was welcomed with unfailing politeness and courtesy by management people.
Better still he was offered a job with more than one operator.

From what ive seen where I work.
The best advice is to ring ahead and try and make an appointment with the CP/CFI. People that just rock up unannounced will NEVER get a look in. Most the time they are out flying themselves/doing paperwork ect. Be nice to the person behind the front desk. You never know who they are. Even if they are just a receptionist, if you **** on them, your resume wont get much further than the recycling bin. If the CP/CFI doesn't want to see you then perhaps there are no jobs going or you're not suitable for the job. Hope it helps and good luck with the job hunt :ok:

This is normal for Asia where the position of pilot is treated with respect verses Australia where a pilot is just another Tom, Dick or Harry. I remember a few years ago, making an appointment with someone in HR who I had cold called about a job for which I wasn't even endorsed for. When I arrived she had been called to a meeting, but would I like to talk to the Vice President of Flight Operations instead ?:ok:

Compare that to Australia where very often a snotty little cow looks down her nose at you and won't even treat you with common courtesy. A nuisance salesman gets better treatment. Doesn't matter how polite you are to them.

I hope the receptionist from Flight West Airlines got the same treatment she gave to pilots when she needed to find another job.:hmm:

However you would be better off not getting past Arthur Morris's receptionist, he was the worst of all.:rolleyes:

Heh, Arthur Morris, he is not to bad if he likes you. But a cu$7 if he doesn't!
Just try to find a common interest.

This almost always works:

Objective One - get an appointment with CP.

1. Find out who the managing director or CEO is. Learn as much as you can about the company and its operations.

2. Ring CEO or Managing Director and ask for them by name. You get past reception by stating that you want to talk to him about charter work. When connected, state who you are and that you are a pilot who believes he may have something to contribute to the company's operations. Be as specific as you can.

You will most likely be asked to talk to the CP/CFI.

3. Ring CP/CFI. Ask for them by name. State truthfully "Mr. so and so asked me to ring you". State your case and ask for an appointment. Since you have been referred from above, the CP probably doesn't know who you are, but he knows the boss wants you to talk to this guy. He doesn't know you cold called his boss. You will probably get your appointment. Bring your resume.


4. The rest is up to you.

P.S. It's easier for girls, you will always at least get the appointment.

I believe Sunfish has hit the nail on the head there. Even without talking to the company director (and a lot of company directors are te CP as well in smaller companies,) you will do a lot better if you can ask for the CP by name, rather than just "could I speak to the chief pilot."
Research people, its just not that hard.

If you must cold call, don't ring or turn up at the busiest time of the day!;)

But if you really want to get a job, there are only three things you need to do NETWORK, NETWORK, NETWORK! Aviation is so small there are generally only two degrees of separation, ask around you probably know someone who has contacts.

If you are fresh out of flying school, keep in touch with the guys you learnt with, especially the ones who already have flying jobs! :ok:

A Morris
 

Metro Man & UnaMas

I know exactly where your coming from I've seen it all, and my advice to anyone
Don't go there, he has no respect for the young aviator and you will not be treated with respect. As for maintenance & condition of some A/C well thats another story, stay away for your own sanity.

Early last year a young gentleman came through the door dressed very impressively in a suit with his resume only to be told P*** off, not looking for pilots. You could of only felt so sorry for that young guy he probably never pursued aviation any further.
That is what happens, if there is a shortage pilots then he's your best friend until you've got your back turned.

There is a lot of other professional companies out there that I would suggest.

I guess it's no wonder the regulator went through him like a tin of epsom salts back in early 2010.

There was a time during my aviation career that I held the position of DFO/Chief Pilot of a combined Charter/RPT operator and received numerous applications for employment. All that were written in a professional manner received a reply.

Times may have changed, but if any pilot seeking employment took the trouble too cold call at my office, which was 400 miles from the nearest major city, and presented himself in a similar manner, I at least did him the courtesy of a face to face meeting.

On one such occasion, and about to leave my office to crew a four sector flight, I offered one such young man the chance to come along for a chat en-route.

He accepted the offer, which not only gave him a look at our operation but gave me the time to evaluate both his technical knowledge, and most importantly, his self motivation.

The end result was that he ended up being employed as a F/O on both our DC-3 & F.27 aircraft. Later in his career he became a Check & Training Captain with a major international airline.

So if you are planning to go around the traps seeking employment my advice is:

Have your documents in order, be smartly dressed and well groomed, be both polite and patient and above all, be self motivated. You may get several rejections but eventually your persistence will pay off.

Funnily enough, I look at things a bit different...

I ask my "reception" (ie Operations) staff to advise me when someone drops in, I will usually come out and say a quick hello, which to me is an initial filter. I don't like my operation simply taking the resume and shooing them out the door, but if I am not there that may well happen - I hope they come back! If my very first impression is good, I will invite that person back for an interview at a time that works for me (and them) later that day (usually knock-off minus 45 min...). That's done over a coffee in the office and if it all looks good, we go from there.

I have been in that position, and I respect those who make the effort to come dressed in uniform or otherwise presentably to state their case. Takes courage - and I like that.

Gives me a chance to see what the person is like as a person, as flying is not the be all and end all.

Ahh dabz, I feel your pain mate. I remember that scenario very well.

I once fronted up in the slacks ironed shirt with CV and logbook and a can do spritely/positive attitude to a company in Darwin.

Needless to say there was nothing to be spritely about as I was running out of money and covered in debt/sweat.

I asked to see the CP just to hand my resume to him and was ignored so I stood back and let passengers get to reception and opted to wait whilst the room cleared to ask again. About 5 minutes into my wait (sitting down not in anyones way) the ops manager or receptionist (a bloke/a moron) publically humiliated me in front of the entire room full of pilots passengers and office staff. He yelled at the top of his lungs and told me to basically F*$k off!

I never did go back. I concluded I didn't want a job there. Infact I decided to not bother with the sought after operators. I opted to try for Aboriginal communities or Cattle Stations. Thats was my solution you will find you yours mate.

15 years and countless other humiliations later I sip coffee at 41000 ft with noise cancelling head sets and occasionally just for fun think back to those people and how they are still living in GA squallor. Its a soothing thought. Those times are what keep me posting here. I remember what its like and a encouraging word is all you need sometimes.

Keep up the good work mate. I look forward to seeing you up the front sometime.

Yes the $200K income, exotic foreign holidays, swimming pool, full time maid etc are quite enjoyable.:ok: I can now quite justifiably look down my nose at these people as well.:}

I still remember the good ones who I am grateful to for helping me get where I am today.:)

Mr Hat,

Hahahaha, I believe I know the organization you speak of.. They wouldn't 5 or is it 6 metros now do they?

I was in t he RAAF (77sqn) for 5 years, had an accident, and was classed by the ADF as medically unfit for all duties... I then applied for a CASA class 1 and was rejected. I wanted to stay in Aviation, so I got an ops job at this outfit. Very dodgy, Planes sent out hundreds of kgs overweight (not so good on barons, and cessna 400s. We did so many adhoc charters, rostering the next day would take hours, and we wouldn't ring the crews untill 1900/2000 to let them know their flights for the next day.

Anyway, Ops manager was a top bloke when he was in a good mood. Didn't take much to push him over the edge though. He would yell, scream, punch the walls and throw stuff at ops and pilots in front of passengers. If Pax asked stupid questions, he would tell them to f*** off.. I have seen him punch pilots, and grab pilots by the neck and push them against walls. Crazy!! It's best you did not get a job there.

I was there 3 years, got my CASA class 1 and now fly bizjets in Melb.

Anyway, most CPs I know get really sick of pilots cold calling them everyday. Just remember you are probably the fourth or fifth of the week to come through, so don't always ecpect to be welcomed with open arms. Do you research on the staff, and make an appointment, You could even have a chat to one of the guys in ops, or a line pilot who is hanging around reception. GA companies are tight nit, and if someone takes a shine to you, your chances of employment are much higher!

Ahhhhh.............Samuel L Jackson, smart man, might pay you gen y'ers to download his iphone app and listen to his words of wisdom :ok:

There's a free one and a not so free one.

Not sure if it was, I think they closed. Best I didn't get a job there as if he punched me I'd have punched him back. He wouldn't have made it as far as my throat.

Dabz I think the best way to go is try to organise a time, an appointment as others have suggested here. Most good outfits will do this. If they won't it might be a signal that they are not that good and you should look elsewhere.

I worked at other places where they hired newbies and both places had CPs that would agree to meet new pilots.

Believe it or not but there are reasonable outfits out there. Its not easy work but if you have a good work ethic you'll get plenty out of the experience.

I'm with Exaviator and Flying Bear.

When I was a local airline manager I always saw potential employees whether they made an appointment or not. Sure it cost me time and I had to stay back at night to complete projects... but I met some good talent who made useful employees.

I've been unemployed so I know what they're going through.

"2. Ring CEO or Managing Director and ask for them by name. You get past reception by stating that you want to talk to him about charter work. When connected, state who you are and that you are a pilot who believes he may have something to contribute to the company's operations. Be as specific as you can."

Absolutely the wrong approach! Going over the top of the CP to the CEO is a strict no-no. A lot of Chief Pilots in the GA sector are insecure enough as it is without having some wannabe trying to short circuit the system or pre-empt them. If there are vacancies, most Chief Pilots will respond to a cold door-knock call, just so long as the person makes the visit at a convenient time, is well presented, has all the required documents and a one page resume' clearly stating flying hours on types, validity date of medical and IR. CPs are usually a bit strapped for time, so they are unlikely to respond well to a barrage of unsolicited information or persistent phone calls.
Even if there are no vacancies, with the softly-softly approach, chances are you will get to present your resume' in person. You can only hope that it is then held on file. If your qualifications fit the Company needs, chances are it willl be. If they don't, there is no point in persisting, as many charter contracts stipulate minimum experience criteria. Just move on and knock on some other operator's door.

As somebody who in a previous life spent a few years in sales trying to get in touch with the right people, the key was doing some prior research. Find out a name, bit of history etc. If you 'cold call' just be polite and ask when is a good time to catch them. Then casually ask if they're about now. If not then you've got some good information. Get an email address - a brief but well worded email is often a good approach. Sometimes it may take a bit of effort and time, but you'll get in.

You've got to admit, we've all thought about doing it :E. I take it they were the only operator on their particular routes?
I think that's the core of it. You are the most important person in your life but you're lucky to make the top 100 in anyone else's, particularly when you're a beginner in a competitive industry. Good manners, information about whether the organization actually needs pilots and pre-planning seem to be the theme here. No point in wasting your time if they don't need any pilots at the moment, no sane company employs more people than they need.

Mr Hat: That's some awesome advice, with all my heart thank you!

Tomorrow I continue the quest.
I still believe I need to fully migrate over to either Darwin/Kunuas/Broome to actually have a real shot of employment. So I'm going to do this.

The visit to Aus from NZ is no good because when I do actually get through to a CP they're going to want an interview. If you're not in the country for that interview then you lose.

Dabz,

I also have a piece of advice for you.
Look futher than Australia. I am a Kiwi that is currently flying in a place called Maun, Botswana.
The most expensive part is to get here. After that it is very cheap to survive. Unlike getting to that part of Aussie from NZ. You have to do the same waiting around until the operators are ready to hire. Hiring season runs from Nov-Mar.
Good progression through aircraft. Generally after a year, give or take a few months, you move onto a Cessna Caravan from C206's or GA8 Airvans. Log on average 750-800hrs a year.
You have a 2 year contract. Pay is average for home standards but very comfortable for Botswana.
Chief pilot will make time to see you if you ask for it. Be patient as he finishes whatever it is he is working on.
He wont however, treat you like something he scrapped off his shoe.

Cheap to live here with all the creature comforts you need, by no means is like anything you will have at home though.
You will have about a 1 in 4 chance of getting hired, around 40-50 people a year turn up with about 15-20 jobs going among 8 operators.

Take a look on the Africa forums for more info, I wrote a thread that has dropped a few pages back titled Maun, the essential guide. Should give you some pointers.

Hope this has given you something to think about. After you have read the arica forums, if you have any other questions, give me a message.

Dabz as you can see the people on prune will take the time to help. Get to know them and you never know what might come of it. There are a few GA operators that regularly contribute.

From my point of view I found it easier to steer clear of the pilot meccas and look in the more remote places. You can base yourself in a mecca so if something comes up you are johnny on the spot. You can give the appearance of being there whilst funding excursions to remoter areas. Its all about keeping multiple options on the boil. Most operators in out of the way locations will give you their time as, believe it or not, not many pilots actually go there. A lot send letters or call but not many actually go out.

When a company I worked for had to lay off workers I walked into a job on the other side of the country all because I had "dropped in" a couple of times to shake hands with the staff there. That person I shook hands with I'm good friends with still today so it was well worth the effort.

Keep plugging away. There are a million ways to skin a cat just choose the one that suits you best.

Duds-

Yes I totally agree, Arthur is a prick and he can turn on his loyal servants at the drop of a hat, as well as belittling those who come in the door seeking work.

However, he is doing something right, he has been there for many years and has a lot of work, albeit suprising due to the state of the aircraft, however I have heard through the grapevine that there are whispers of new paint and new aircraft.

One can only hope that the poor guys down there get paid a bit more too. But on the other hand some might just consider that a price to pay for multi engine IFR charter in brissy.

My experience was in Darwin but I did talk to "Arthur" on the phone.

I concluded I wasn't suitable for the position.

Liftboy262, thank you for the info. Africa's definitely an option if Australia doesn't work out. To tell you the truth I would be scared ****less flying in Africa. Having an engine failure and forced landing into the Savanna would be scary... I wouldn't want to take on a lion, leopard or hyena when stranded. :eek:

Mr Hat:
Again I think you've hit the nail on the head and I shall put your words into action.

Without giving away too much this morning I've been given an opportunity for employment.. Wahoo! :)
It's not a given yet as I have to relocate but when I do I'll be given a good look at by the CP.

From all the operators I've visited so far this seems to be consistent, if you want employment you need to 100% relocate to or close too that intended operator.

I'm only half way through my tour of Aus and will continue to visit operators as you can't put all your eggs in 1 basket but once I get home to NZ I will be packing up shop and moving over.

Thank you everyone for all the advice :ok:

Great news, make sure the CP knows you are available as soon as he/she needs you there (48hrs). This often happens at short notice and operators won't leave a frame sitting against the fence whilst you neatly pack everything in alphabetical order. They will and have been know to give it to other that just happened to be in the area. Its a cruel game aviation. If need be relocate another time. In ga all you need is a licence a headset, your log book and a good sized tin of elbow grease.

Keep the other options ticking over. Its easy to get into the mindset that you're "sorted". Newflash: you ain't sorted until you are checked to line! Even then, like you would in your 210, you should know what your options are at all times. Just keep an ear to the ground just incase. Don't drop all that hard work, perhaps redirect it as your total time increases. All these contacts will pay dividends when the time comes to move to the next rung. You've got to be looking 5 steps ahead all the time.

Keep us posted.