I can totally see why VA management want VANZ crew to be able to operate domestic sectors, not just for a cost reduction (which would be dubious if you looked at the true cost), but more likely from a logistical point of view, especially when the resource group is stretched as it is right now.

VAA needed VANZ crew during the Qantas grounding and thankfully the unions negotiated a temporary pay increase for those VANZ pilots. VANZ has required VAA crew, not only in the past, but right now as we speak with the latest batch of VANZ pilots returning to the other mothership (Air NZ) and beyond.

One thing that is lost on many is that Australians make up a large portion of the VANZ and Jetconnect pilot group, particularly the former, as unless you wanted to be an SO, this was the only entry point for a jet job at VA. Kudos to VA for avoiding redundancies with VARA, but VA management needs to come to the realisation that having a large group of Australians, including many from Perth, working in NZ away from their home is going to be problematic logistically and financially now and into the future.

In the past (and maybe still now), the typical response from management was that if you don't like it you can leave, we'll replace you (largely at the cost of the new candidate). With Air NZ hiring strongly and likely to continue for many years to come, the pool of qualified and quality candidates in NZ is small.

Now what is going to happen in Australia if the long awaited recruitment at Qantas begins? You can bet VA will be parking aircraft, and you can bet VA management know this, but what are they doing to prevent or lesson the effects of this (apart from sell more aircraft!). VA has been able to recruit many quality candidates with the absence of recruitment at QF and they will be the first to go. VA may be in for a major reality check, as their contempt for their workforce comes to a head in the coming months and years.

Back on topic, one has to wonder why VANZ (and Jetconnect) even exist, or are allowed to exist? We all watched that Hungry Beast video years ago and nothing came of it. Big business always win at the cost of the worker. Neither company operates domestically anymore when there was a justified reason for NZ bases.

If there was ever a time for the entire VA pilot group to be unified, now is that time.

No, that time has come & gone. It could be argued that VAA & VAI (Australia) sold out VAINZ when they allowed them on their seniority list on different T & C's & different FTL's. Doesn't anyone wonder why the company was pushing for this to come to pass? Of course they are going to grow VAINZ. VAINZ could well be the Virgin 'B' scale.


The NZ bases have little to do with domestic ops in NZ. The primary reason is two-fold. The Tasman is most efficiently flown when the A/C starts the day in NZ. JetStar, JetConnect, ANZ & Virgin are all testament to that. The other reason is that the Tasman has traditionally been a bloodbath of red ink over the decades. Any cost savings that can be achieved help to make the services viable. NZ salaries have always been lower than across the ditch & there is currently a significantly large difference in salaries between VAINZ & the Aussies. JB stated in a meeting in Auckland a few years back that if the VAINZ pilots wanted Australian pay he would close the whole operation down. Probably EBA tactics, but interesting none the less.


People go on about protection of Australian flying but, like management, they tend to be 'domestic centric'. Much of the island flying is actually Australian flying. The flights start in Australia & end there. BNE-VLI-BNE, BNE-NAN-BNE, SYD-NAN-SYD, MEL-NAN-MEL, etc. This flying hasn't been 'protected' & the thin edge of the wedge is well & truly in the door.


It will be interesting to see where things end up over the course of the next year or two.

"Sold out".

Like the domestic pilots actually had/have any say in it. :ugh:

I agree Oakape. 14 737's + all E Jets phased out over next 3 years, the possibility of VANZ expanding into domestic flying.... the next few years will be very interesting indeed.

Does anyone have any insight as to if/when VA might start recruiting again?

Unlikely to be any time soon with excess crew from the E190 and ATR looking for placement. That hasn't stopped them from contacting my references for the 2nd time and telling me they've got a course booked for month X, followed by simply disappearing and refusing to communicate.

I gave up and took a job with the competition. Virgin can ead.

VA has gone from pilot employer of last resort to employer of choice and now back again. It's a long and uncertain line unless you're just joining to get some FO time and take it somewhere else. And with Emirates taking Saab FOs, why would you?

External recruitment about to commence for B777 Second Officers and NZ based B737 First Officers.

Wow this thread is pretty hot...not! Once upon a time it was going off. I guess once upon a time Emirates didn't have to blanket advertise to attract pilots.

Big a change in the industry in the last 20 years!

Here you go...

Everyone in NZ received an email asking if they know anyone who wants to work here.... so yeah they are pretty desperate :cool:

Heard that 23 NZ based Virgin F.O.'s resigned in one week, all going to Air New Zealand!

How does it work in regards to transferring bases. For example if you are employed to fly the 737 in New Zealand, is it possible to transfer to an Australian base in the future? Or are the seniority lists separate?

How does it work in regards to moving to a different base? For example if you are initially employed as a B737 FO based in New Zealand, is it possible to change to an Australian base in the future?

Everyone is put on the group date of joining list and you can bid for base and fleet changes, as well as command upgrades. So long as you are not under any freeze than you will be awarded the change if you have the seniority/DOJ.

What number is the lowest person on the group list now? And what number is the lowest Australian based 737/Ejet FO? Lots of 777 and VARA peeps in between and not a lot of growth likely for a very long time!!! You'll be in NZ for a very long time.

Yeah it depends... keep in mind VARA has a 10% every 12 months clause and 777 SO's are frozen for 30 months. If you are lucky you could slip in between, but don't count on it.

With Tiger joining the list now I would say you would be in NZ indefinitely for new hires.

Recent rounds of interviews were the last of the VARA crew that wanted to be considered for VA positions, however even with the urgent need for NZ based FO's, none of the VARA crew will be released from their operation due to the low numbers on the ATR, at least for the remainder of this year. The next lot of interviews over the coming 2-3 months will be external candidates.

Most pressing at the moment are the NZ based 737 FO positions.

A deed has been presented concerning the group date of joining and integration concerning the tiger pilots, but as most of them will potentially be bonded for at least 2 years when they transition onto the 737, and that transition is probably a year away, their position or potential position on the GDOJ list won't have any immediate impact on where new hires may or may not end up.

Regular interview sessions are booked over the coming months.

Nobody really knows for certain how many or where the target areas are, and with the re-training of all the ejet crews onto the 737, things are going to be quite busy for a while.

As far as new hires are concerned, those considering a NZ base with the expectation of getting back to the Oz should consider the possibility of being over there for a while.

As far as no longer being the airline of choice for candidates, that may very well be true. It all depends on the candidate I suppose... Hope this helps.

I've heard the same Open Descent, VARA crews more than likely will not be released from the ATR due to a shortage created as a result of mismanagement.
Those motivated, willing and able, will release themselves all together from VAA and move on. Cathay, Emirates, Air NZ, Jetstar, and soon Tiger, and Qantas. Plenty of choices :ok: